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The conservative movement is dead, long live the conservative movement

30ashopper avatar
SoWal Insider
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In late October 2008, New Yorker staff writer George Packer reported "the complete collapse of the four-decade project that brought conservatism to power in America." Two weeks later, the day after Mr. Obama's election, Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne proclaimed "the end of a conservative era" that had begun with the rise of Ronald Reagan.

And in February 2009, New York Times Book Review and Week in Review editor Sam Tanenhaus, writing in The New Republic, declared that "movement conservatism is exhausted and quite possibly dead." Mr. Tanenhaus even purported to discern in the new president "the emergence of a president who seems more thoroughly steeped in the principles of Burkean conservatism than any significant thinker or political figure on the right."

Peter Berkowitz: The Death of Conservatism Was Greatly Exaggerated - WSJ.com

Great WSJ piece today by Berkowitz. People wonder about the origins of the tea party, and commentators like Beck. You have to remember just a few short years ago media far and wide had proclaimed the end of the Reagan era. I think the meteoric rise of figures like Beck and the rise of the TP have a lot to do with how people reacted to the idea of a new progressive era in American politics.

I think the reason why liberals claim this is a reaction to a black president is due to their lack of understanding of conservative principals. Berkowtz hits this nail on the head:

Progressives like to believe that conservatism's task is exclusively negative?resisting the centralizing and expansionist tendency of democratic government. And that is a large part of the conservative mission. Progressives see nothing in this but hard-hearted indifference to inequality and misfortune, but that is a misreading.

What conservatism does is ask the question avoided by progressive promises: at what expense? In the aftermath of the global economic crisis of 2008, Western liberal democracies have been increasingly forced to come to grips with their propensity to live beyond their means.

It is always the task for conservatives to insist that money does not grow on trees, that government programs must be paid for, and that promising unaffordable benefits is reckless, unjust and a long-term threat to maintaining free institutions.

But conservatives also combat government expansion and centralization because it can undermine the virtues upon which a free society depends. Big government tends to crowd out self-government?producing sluggish, selfish and small-minded citizens, depriving individuals of opportunities to manage their private lives and discouraging them from cooperating with fellow citizens to govern their neighborhoods, towns, cities and states.

Replies

72
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#52
The deficit? What about the debt accumulated? The only period in my lifetime this actually decreased was a brief period at the hieght of the stock bubble, and that only counts if you include excess social security income. If you take ss surplus out, debt has increased under every presidency over the last god knows how many years.

I guess my question is, when do we demand a change in this behavior from washington? Obama has projected out ten years and the annual deficit under his economic plans never drops below 600 billion! That's with a robust economic recovery and tax increases on "the rich" factored in.

Are you ok with that kind of long term plan?

I meant to say debt. I don't know when this will change. Maybe when we form some sort of tea party with socially liberal progressives instead of a bunch of angry old fat self-pitying white men.
Beach Fanatic
#53
I meant to say debt. I don't know when this will change. Maybe when we form some sort of tea party with socially liberal progressives instead of a bunch of angry old fat self-pitying white men.


If that is your platform I will be glad to join you. You can have all the credit, I just want the result. Labels and name-calling are meaningless, ideas and results are what counts.
30ashopper avatar
SoWal InsiderAuthor
#54
I meant to say debt. I don't know when this will change. Maybe when we form some sort of tea party with socially liberal progressives instead of a bunch of angry old fat self-pitying white men.

The angry left, in a nut shell. "I don't know", then throw a few worthless insults. I am so glad I do not see the world the way you do.
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#55
If that is your platform I will be glad to join you. You can have all the credit, I just want the result. Labels and name-calling are meaningless, ideas and results are what counts.

Well you're not going to like this, but in some extreme cases to avert major depression I'm in favor of a certain amount of fiscal stimulus too. Call it a bailout if you want. A lot of great financial minds, Warren Buffett for example, thought it was necessary. I could never be a purist like John Stossel or Rand Paul for example.:eek:
Beach Fanatic
#56
Well you're not going to like this, but in some extreme cases to avert major depression I'm in favor of a certain amount of fiscal stimulus too. Call it a bailout if you want. A lot of great financial minds, Warren Buffett for example, thought it was necessary. I could never be a purist like John Stossel or Rand Paul for example.:eek:


You had me going there for a minute. :idontno:
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#57
Accusing me of a "juvenile tit-for-tat " is the pot calling the kettle black.
Seeing you know so much, name our Republican friends who would not want to see the deficit decline because revenue had increased?

I misread your post and will delete my response, but to answer your question, I would say just about every Republican in the house and senate does not want to see economic recovery with deficit reduction for political reasons.
LuciferSam avatar
Banned
#58
You had me going there for a minute. :idontno:

Try to imagine how I must have felt. Yeah, I have no room for purists.
Lynnie avatar
SoWal Insider
#59
I love a good sowal digression and the inception of the left name-calling.
Bankruptcy is a declaration that you can't fund your obligations in the now, not the future. But, I like the way you're thinking~~~~~~~
Bob avatar
SoWal Insider
#60
How do you cure this, Y'all? :lol:
pull the big lever w/ tax incentives for hiring
Bob avatar
SoWal Insider
#61
The angry left, in a nut shell. "I don't know", then throw a few worthless insults. I am so glad I do not see the world the way you do.
i'm the gooey middle
Lynnie avatar
SoWal Insider
#62
pull the big lever w/ tax incentives for hiring

That's a good idea. How about enticing people to spend?
30ashopper avatar
SoWal InsiderAuthor
#63
pull the big lever w/ tax incentives for hiring

What lever? :idontno:
Beach Fanatic
#64
I misread your post and will delete my response, but to answer your question, I would say just about every Republican in the house and senate does not want to see economic recovery with deficit reduction for political reasons.


I deleted mine as well. And i would say just about every Democrat in the house and senate did not want the surge to work for political reasons. Such is the state of politics unfortunately.
Bob avatar
SoWal Insider
#65
What lever? :idontno:
no witholding/ income tax
AndrewG avatar
Beach Fanatic
#66
Democrats are hanging themselves. Monica Lewinsky could win vs current dem.
Lynnie avatar
SoWal Insider
#67
Democrats are hanging themselves. Monica Lewinsky could win vs current dem.

Too many chiefs, maybe?
30ashopper avatar
SoWal InsiderAuthor
#68
no witholding/ income tax

I hear a withholding tax reduction is on the table. But it would be temporary, so while it would help consumers to some extent, it wouldn't help hiring over the short term. Other things under consideration include [strike]squeezing blood from a turnip[/strike] another cash for clunkers of some form, likely revolving around clean energy products, more high speed rail spending, extending Bush's tax cuts in some form or another, and more incentives for small businesses to hire.

All in all, a mixed bag, and everybody in washington is apparently already on the campaign trail, so not much will likely get done.

Tax Cuts, Infrastructure Spending Weighed to Spur Economy - WSJ.com
30ashopper avatar
SoWal InsiderAuthor
#69
One thing I haven't heard much about lately is housing. Sounds like we have finally decided to let the chips fall where they may in real estate.
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#70
Papa Scooterbug has opined that the only part of the whole stimulus boondoggle that has done anything is road construction projects. He sees people working and he sees potholes and bad roads being fixed.

We need more projects like that - where Joe and Joan Q. Public have jobs as a direct result - not trickle down crap where it gets siphoned off by corporations.

I think a revival of the CCC would be a good way to go, and they should work on urban projects, schools, playgrounds, landscaping, green infrastructure etc.

And as far as real estate, I think banks need a good kick in the arse to expedite loan modifications, but that overall the less interference from the government the better. That is the only way it is going to sort itself IMO.

Edited

30ashopper avatar
SoWal InsiderAuthor
#71
Pay civil service union workers to plant trees? Those would be some pretty expensive trees.
scooterbug44 avatar
SoWal Expert
#72
Where did you get civil service union from?

I am talking about reviving the unskilled manual labor program from the Great Depression.
30ashopper avatar
SoWal InsiderAuthor
#73
Where did you get civil service union from?

I am talking about reviving the unskilled manual labor program from the Great Depression.

Well, Obama signed an executive order requiring all labor contracts for infrastructure projects over 25 billion use organized labor. He also set minimum pay requirements equal to that of union labor, which was supposed to make sure unions could "compete competitively" :roll: for contracts. So, I was assuming, since the CCC is all about infrastructure spending the same executive rules would apply.

Executive Order: Use of Project Labor Agreements for Federal Construction Projects | The White House

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