Civilian trials appear to be working for terrorists......

Yeah...that was the Litmus test. It didn't go so well for the Obama team. We might see them try one more, but if it goes as well as this one, the public backlash will be pretty severe.

It was pointed out that evidence gathered by what's deemed torture is also inadmissable in military courts. (Also allegedly the evidence gotten from a 'poisoned tree') So not sure how a military couty could have done much better with the test case.

And the one guilty is enough to get him life in prison. (provided there isn't some sort of oil for terrorist swap down the road ala the surviving Lockerbie bomber)

He's been convicted and could be sentenced to life in prison. Did I miss something?

1..."could be sentenced to life" not will be...
2...cleared of 287 other counts despite being directly tied to the bombings in Africa.

He's going to prison for a long time. End of story. This is just more "Obama can't swim" nitpicking.

He's getting a minimum of 20 years in prison and could get life and the reason he WASN'T convicted was that they didn't have the evidence to make the case.

The lack of admissible evidence is true whether it is a civilian OR military court.

Frankly it's pretty embarrassing they couldn't present a better case considering his supposed resume.

They couldn't find him guilty as the judge threw out the only creditable witness. I have a solution. Let's release all Gitmo detainees and then when we encounter them again in a combat area, shoot them. In the meantime until they are shot, they can continue to kill American troops. There problem solved.

We put him in prison for decades and did it by following all the rules to the letter and without using any information or testimony obtained through questionable means.

I consider that a victory on 2 levels. (Though I must admit I would like to now put him in with the general population ;-) and save some tax dollars.)

And if we change HOW we get information (aka not torturing) we could have credible witnesses.

I am going to say this once and then be quiet. During my escape and evasion exercise in 1963, some of my comrades were water boarded to show what it would be like and its affects. They all survived. At that time, it was not considered "torture" but a very effective interogation method. Times and attitudes have changed but that does not relieve the usefulness of a technique of interogation no longer acceptable because we might hurt an enemy's psyche.

I am going to say this once and then be quiet. During my escape and evasion exercise in 1963, some of my comrades were water boarded to show what it would be like and its affects. They all survived. At that time, it was not considered "torture" but a very effective interogation method. Times and attitudes have changed but that does not relieve the usefulness of a technique of interogation no longer acceptable because we might hurt an enemy's psyche.

How long were they subjected to it? Many of the detainee's endured it for hours at a time. Like anything you can do it once and survive, repeated use can lead to ill effects.

How long were they subjected to it? Many of the detainee's endured it for hours at a time. Like anything you can do it once and survive, repeated use can lead to ill effects.

As is many times the case, you speak of something you know nothing about, IMO. In answer to your question, it was a demonstration and not at length.

As is many times the case, you speak of something you know nothing about, IMO. In answer to your question, it was a demonstration and not at length.

Andy A, after dismissing me completely, you proved my point.

I am going to say this once and then be quiet. During my escape and evasion exercise in 1963, some of my comrades were water boarded to show what it would be like and its affects. They all survived. At that time, it was not considered "torture" but a very effective interogation method. Times and attitudes have changed but that does not relieve the usefulness of a technique of interogation no longer acceptable because we might hurt an enemy's psyche.

.
And there was a time when women couldn't vote and people could have and beat slaves and people turned a blind eye to child abuse, spousal abuse, etc. (that worked to keep them in line, I suppose you could say.) ...... our society has progressed and we are better/more humane for it! No need to go backward.


.

.
And there was a time when women couldn't vote and people could have and beat slaves and people turned a blind eye to child abuse, spousal abuse, etc. (that worked to keep them in line, I suppose you could say.) ...... our society has progressed and we are better/more humane for it! No need to go backward.


.

All you say is true and completely irrelevant to the discussion. As many do, you want to take advances we have made and turn them into situations that would never have happened if we had not "matured socially". We made advances socially because they were recognized as being desirable, not because of any one person or movement but because of our recognition of the rights of every American to aspire to a higher plane. Some tend to get backward mixed up with forward. (How is that for a useless answer to a post totally out of context).

My point was that we put a terrorist in prison for decades and did so while making absolutely sure the trail/process was in no way tainted.

So the US won, the rule of law won, our way of life won, the Geneva Convention won, the high road won, and the terrorists lost.

I consider that a good day and hope we can do even better next time.

All you say is true and completely irrelevant to the discussion. As many do, you want to take advances we have made and turn them into situations that would never have happened if we had not "matured socially". We made advances socially because they were recognized as being desirable, not because of any one person or movement but because of our recognition of the rights of every American to aspire to a higher plane. Some tend to get backward mixed up with forward. (How is that for a useless answer to a post totally out of context).

More of a rambling incoherency to a perfectly valid point.

More of a rambling incoherency to a perfectly valid point.

Only one id..er...individual's opinion.

All you say is true and completely irrelevant to the discussion. As many do, you want to take advances we have made and turn them into situations that would never have happened if we had not "matured socially". We made advances socially because they were recognized as being desirable, not because of any one person or movement but because of our recognition of the rights of every American to aspire to a higher plane. Some tend to get backward mixed up with forward. (How is that for a useless answer to a post totally out of context).

rather useless and unnecessary.....


.

I thought I saw a study that concluded that waterboarding as an interrogation technique couldn't be trusted because the subject would be willing to say anything at all just to get the waterboarding to stop.

CIA Interrogation Specialist: Have you ever been a donut?

Subject: What? Are you an idiot?! WTF are you talking about?

CIA Interrogation Specialist (begins waterboarding the subject): Have you ever been a donut?

Subject: OMG- I thought you don't torture. I can't breathe. I am drowning.

CIA Interrogation Specialist: Have you ever been a donut?

Subject: Fine- you win. Just please stop. I am a jelly donut.

CIA Interrogation Specialist: What kind of filling?

Subject: Just stop. I'll tell you whatever you want to know. I am a jelly donut. A strawberry bismark.

That is true with any form of torture Geo. That is why they continue the torture over a period of time to ascertain any deviation in the information received.

That is true with any form of torture Geo. That is why they continue the torture over a period of time to ascertain any deviation in the information received.

So in other words, even if the subject is telling the truth and is willing to cooperate, he's in for months of brutal torture.

So in other words, even if the subject is telling the truth and is willing to cooperate, he's in for months of brutal torture.

Yep, just as the Founding Fathers intended. :sarc:

McVeigh got the needle under Clinton's leadership for killing hundreds. Ghailani gets twenty year to life under Obama's for doing the same.

Letting the bad guys off easy... change you can believe in?

McVeigh got the needle under Clinton's leadership for killing hundreds. Ghailani gets twenty year to life under Obama's for doing the same.

Letting the bad guys off easy... change you can believe in?

Believe this-
Remove the politics and you see that nothing has changed-

The plantiff still needs evidence to win their case.

Believe this-
Remove the politics and you see that nothing has changed-

The plantiff still needs evidence to win their case.

Make as many excuses as you want, I don't care. Whatever this administration did in handling this case, they didn't get it right.