The American Dream

How do we print debt free money?

THIS is the very point most don't realize. We have been chained to this scam for so long we assume debt is inherent to money. Money is whatever the government says it is. As long as it's supply is controlled. And control of sovereign debt will come in the form of Congress who would take their marching orders from the voting booth. No more shenanigans. Simple. Why, that's so crazy it just might work. It worked wonderfully before 1913.

The debt? Default on the Fed. Tell them to shove it. BUUUT, the Fed has it's tentacles all thru our political and banking system. It is the system. It's about as easy as asking the devil to shoot himself.

It's going to be a battle. Pray for Ron Paul.

Our currency is issued by the Federal Reserve. That's just a fancy name for a private bank. It is neither Federal nor a reserve. The treasury secretary calls up the Fed and says we need another $800 billion. Fed say sure, here you go, plus interest. They charge us rent to use THEIR currency. That is why all the bills in your wallet say "Federal Reserve Note."

It is not OUR money. It is NOT US money. It is the Feds money. However, we can simply print our own money. More than can, we must, according to the Constitution. We don't have to pay interest for this privilege. It's our GOD GIVEN RIGHT! The fact that people don't see this and aren't absolutely up in arms about it makes me realize how it has been able to exist for so long.

Watch the Wizard of Oz video I posted above. He explains all this very very well. He, like yourself, doesn't subscribe to a gold back currency. Though he believes gold/silver will rise a lot, he doesn't think we will back currency with it. He wants us to print our own sovereign money without debt. Very informative.

edit: scooterbug, you are asking great questions. Please excuse my emotions and don't shoot the messenger 🙂 Keep going down the rabbit hole and take the red pill ;-) This topic just gets me worked up every time I think about it, but then I remember there is a way out. It's so obvious it escapes us. The best way to hide a scam is in plain sight. It has become the system.

what is it about ron paul that you believe trumps the fed and it's management of money supply/rates? would you be willing to stand in line for food?

what is it about ron paul that you believe trumps the fed and it's management of money supply/rates? would you be willing to stand in line for food?

I like Ron Paul because he is the only politician willing to stand up to the Fed. I don't believe in Ron Paul's money supply management. I believe in American citizens right to manage their own money. Ron Paul is our best hope to achieve this. This issue is paramount above all others.

What is it about the Bernanke and the Fed's system of money management that makes you think the road we are going down will be better than the same road we are on? Good money after bad? Or bad money after bad?

And the Fed doesn't manage money. They are money changers.

"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Bread lines? You want to see bread lines? Food stamps, which 1-8 Americans are on, are credited electronically these days, like a debit card. They renew at 12:01am on the first of each month. Go to Walmart on the last day of the month about 11:00 pm. You'll see mother's loading carts with diapers and food. When the clock strikes midnight the bread lines form at the register. source: Walmart CEO

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130272928

and so it begins.....


Legislation proposes Utah adopt a gold-based system


Legislation proposes Utah adopt a gold-based system | The Salt Lake Tribune

No, my point was that we can't just decide to default on all our debt and start with a new monetary system debt free.

No matter what our currency is based on, we owe people/countries lots of money. And any currency "worth" is based on that debt.

Hoarding gold doesn't change that.

P.S. Ask anyone what they really want during a disaster and gold is not even in the top 5. Water, shelter, food, liquor (good currency BTW), medical supplies.

And the Fed doesn't manage money. They are money changers.

"Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Bread lines? You want to see bread lines? Food stamps, which 1-8 Americans are on, are credited electronically these days, like a debit card. They renew at 12:01am on the first of each month. Go to Walmart on the last day of the month about 11:00 pm. You'll see mother's loading carts with diapers and food. When the clock strikes midnight the bread lines form at the register. source: Walmart CEO

Midnight Shopping On The Brink Of Poverty : NPR

you are getting a little overwrought. folks like you and i stood in line for a bowl of soup. The unemployment rate was about 3 times what it is today. people sold pencils/ apples. they literally dug ditches and raked leaves. the government sat on their hands and did little until the economy became dysfunctional. by any measure, bernanke is a student of the depression, and has averted a complete societal breakdown. feel free to express your own ideas, but understand we've been through down cycles many times in our country's history. i view the food stamp program as a positive, in that the concentration of wealth in this country in the hands of the few has never been greater. people who have little income should be able to eat.

No, my point was that we can't just decide to default on all our debt and start with a new monetary system debt free.

No matter what our currency is based on, we owe people/countries lots of money. And any currency "worth" is based on that debt.

Hoarding gold doesn't change that.

P.S. Ask anyone what they really want during a disaster and gold is not even in the top 5. Water, shelter, food, liquor (good currency BTW), medical supplies.

I understand now. I don't have the answer to the finer points of a transition. It will take some time and some work. It will not be simple. You can be assured the government has a plan right now for Continuity of Operations.

If the Fed doesn't allow gold to back their currency then we will be forced to default on them. They don't want that of course, so they will backstop our debt with gold so that we may continue to pay on the debt. Raising the debt ceiling assures this and QEIII.

Keep in mind the US is the largest gold holder in the world by a large factor. If we adopt our own sovereign currency, the price of gold will rise enough to absorb the amount of wealth created from the printing of the previous FRNs. Once that ratio has been established, we lock the supply of our new money and it is indirectly backed by our gold stores as a promise to pay.

Liquidity and easy, high-interest money will be gone, but stability, honest accounting and financial freedom will be the result.

you are getting a little overwrought. folks like you and i stood in line for a bowl of soup. The unemployment rate was about 3 times what it is today. people sold pencils/ apples. they literally dug ditches and raked leaves. the government sat on their hands and did little until the economy became dysfunctional. by any measure, bernanke is a student of the depression, and has averted a complete societal breakdown. feel free to express your own ideas, but understand we've been through down cycles many times in our country's history. i view the food stamp program as a positive, in that the concentration of wealth in this country in the hands of the few has never been greater. people who have little income should be able to eat.

Overwrought? You brought up a fantasy future bread line. I showed you where they are hidden in plain sight today.

Bernanke was a professor before becoming the Fed chairman. He is a student of the Feds Keynesian policy. All the ivy league schools are. That's the incubator of the puppets.

We were the world's largest creditor before now. Now we are the world's largest debtor. This time, it is different by 180 degrees.

I understand now. I don't have the answer to the finer points of a transition. It will take some time and some work. It will not be simple. You can be assured the government has a plan right now for Continuity of Operations.

If the Fed doesn't allow gold to back their currency then we will be forced to default on them. They don't want that of course, so they will backstop our debt with gold so that we may continue to pay on the debt. Raising the debt ceiling assures this and QEIII.

Keep in mind the US is the largest gold holder in the world by a large factor. If we adopt our own sovereign currency, the price of gold will rise enough to absorb the amount of wealth created from the printing of the previous FRNs. Once that ratio has been established, we lock the supply of our new money and it is indirectly backed by our gold stores as a promise to pay.

Liquidity and easy, high-interest money will be gone, but stability, honest accounting and financial freedom will be the result.

So your plan to fight over-valued currency, eliminate debt, and stave off inflation hinges upon drastically increasing the value of an already (IMO) overvalued commodity?

Sounds a bit bubbly and speculative.

What happens if we base our currency on goldand it decreases in value?

So your plan to fight over-valued currency, eliminate debt, and stave off inflation hinges upon drastically increasing the value of an already (IMO) overvalued commodity?

Sounds a bit bubbly and speculative.

What happens if we base our currency on goldand it decreases in value?

Gold became a commodity when the world's reserve currency became fiat.

When it becomes the monetary standard it will not be a commodity.

3000 years of history says it's stable. It is not reproducible, unlike paper or binary digits.

History is not on the Feds side. I will continue to let history be the decider.

And it's not MY plan. It's a reversion to the mean. This is how it was before. I wanted to know what money was and where it came from. I stumbled upon all this by standing on the shoulders of giants.

I think I have posted quite enough. There is more than enough information in this thread to lead you to where I think your answers lay. I don't have all the answers. I wanted to share what I've learned thus far. I wish you all nothing but the best in your continued quest for answers. I will be doing the same 😉

edit: last but not least....there is a whole other world beyond this conversation in the PMs. Here is a good forum to get specific PM info should you choose that path.

https://www.kitcomm.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15

The corporate profits conundrum is completely unexplained. Books will be written about it. My take is that deflation has brought down basic material costs and labor while prices have been kept high by sellers.

In one respect though I think your assumption is right, trillions in money printing to buy worthless or low yield assets from corporate america frees up a lot of cash for investing.

Here's a good question - How will QE2 effect the market over the next year? Last year the market crashed after the FEDs MBS purchases ended. Then they promised QE2 and boom, six months of good times. How long will the presses run this year, and what happens after they stop, and will they kick back in again if things crash again?

Artificial forces are in control and have been for well over two years. Investing isn't much different from taking a trip to Vegas at this point.

The David Tepper trade is intact, and will be, until shorts are broke,... nominally at least.

Overwrought? You brought up a fantasy future bread line. I showed you where they are hidden in plain sight today.

Bernanke was a professor before becoming the Fed chairman. He is a student of the Feds Keynesian policy. All the ivy league schools are. That's the incubator of the puppets.

We were the world's largest creditor before now. Now we are the world's largest debtor. This time, it is different by 180 degrees.

Gold is nothing but a shiny yellow metal. This is a tulip bulb phase. Gold's industrial worth is probably around $30 per oz... and jewelry demand puts it around $80. the rest is exuberant speculation, that will end in tears.

My advice: buy some JOE stock and short GLD, FCX, GG, NEM, KGC . . . then pour a drink and watch the profits roll in.

Overwrought? You brought up a fantasy future bread line. I showed you where they are hidden in plain sight today.

Bernanke was a professor before becoming the Fed chairman. He is a student of the Feds Keynesian policy. All the ivy league schools are. That's the incubator of the puppets.

We were the world's largest creditor before now. Now we are the world's largest debtor. This time, it is different by 180 degrees.

sorry, posted too fast. i was referring to the great depression. It's not fantasy. bernanke has studied the great depression, and has averted chaos which would have occurred a la paul. check your fear. things could be much worse.

sorry, posted too fast. i was referring to the great depression. It's not fantasy. bernanke has studied the great depression, and has averted chaos which would have occurred a la paul. check your fear. things could be much worse.

Had the FED not existed, we may not have gotten into this mess in the first place. I'm not so sure we're better off with a FED.

Had the FED not existed, we may not have gotten into this mess in the first place. I'm not so sure we're better off with a FED.

I'd prefer to move away from organizations that are too big to fail. Its time to carve up the megabanks like BOA and go back to regionally or state sized banks.

One lesson we learned in The Depression (and apparently forgot in the 80's & 90's) was to eliminate big, interstate banks. If we went back to that model today, there wouldn't be any banks that were too big to fail .

I'd prefer to move away from organizations that are too big to fail. Its time to carve up the megabanks like BOA and go back to regionally or state sized banks.

One lesson we learned in The Depression (and apparently forgot in the 80's & 90's) was to eliminate big, interstate banks. If we went back to that model today, there wouldn't be any banks that were too big to fail .

Bingo.

Look no further than the Bank of North Dakota. Only state owned bank in the country. Only bank to run a surplus. Est. 1919


Bank of North Dakota

Bingo.

Look no further than the Bank of North Dakota. Only state owned bank in the country. Only bank to run a surplus. Est. 1919


Bank of North Dakota

Where does one find trustworthy financial stats on every single bank in the country?

Surely there are some other surplus healthy local/regional banks besides Bank of North Dakota?

The long term success of BofND certainly implies a worthy model for a Nationally issued/managed currency.

I am NO FAN of The Fed, their secrecy and abuses. Nor do I believe that USA's dysfunctional marriage with the abusive Fed can be 'counseled' into health. Sometimes divorce is highly warranted. IMO, this is one of those instances.

I am a huge proponent of re-localizing to community/regional banks that are chartered / regulated by the given state's laws & banking associations. Banks populated by human beings that one can meet with face-to-face because they're located in close enough community proximity to understand local economies, marketplaces, and customers. Banks that ONLY deal in the business of banking... whose primary reason for being is to service the community; not scramble/sniff around intent on competing with and destroying their customers and the community's businesses by exploiting the equivalent of "insider trading" practices.

That is not the only healthy bank.

My hometown bank (now has 3 locations and 100 employees after 20 years) came through smelling like roses - their fuddy duddy policies of not loaning outside the county and not getting involved in sub-prime lending paid off big. ;-)

Of course, that is what happens when you have a community bank whose board of directors is the same group of local business owners that started it decades ago and whose first priority is to the community and providing good service.

And the fact that they have some of the best rates in town, think long term, and have humans answering the phone and providing excellent service doesn't hurt them one bit either.