AZ sheriff blames political rhetoric

Or maybe he was just full of hate, knew exactly what he was doing and was hell bent on shooting some people, we just don't know.

That is mentally ill in my book.

That is mentally ill in my book.

Thankfully not according to law-

Criminal insanity is a defense which may be used in a criminal case. The criminal insanity defense argues that someone should not be held responsible for a crime because she or he did not understand the ramifications of the crime at the time due to an altered mental state. When someone is found not guilty by reason of insanity, it means that at the time the crime was committed, the person's mental state was such that he or she could not act willfully. The standards which must be met in order for this defense to be accepted vary around the world.

That is mentally ill in my book.

I disagree. I see the point Poppy was trying to make. There are mentally ill people and then there are people simply filled with hate. I don't think Timothy MeVeigh was insane. You can't do anything about the insane people. You can try to tone down the hate and fear rhetoric...and just possibly get a grip on our main problems.

There's a difference between a state by state map that uses statistics to show which districts should be focused on in the next election because of the results of the Presidential election, and a map that has gun sights to pinpoint the locations of a "to get rid of" list that lists candidates/districts by name and is based on their vote on 1 topic.

Not saying that both parties couldn't do with some major manners and ethics lessons (and many smacks upside the head IMO), just that Palin/Repubs were worse in this case.

I disagree. I see the point Poppy was trying to make. There are mentally ill people and then there are people simply filled with hate. I don't think Timothy MeVeigh was insane. You can't do anything about the insane people. You can try to tone down the hate and fear rhetoric...and just possibly get a grip on our main problems.

I see the point too. My question is what good does the hate rhetoric do? And, it is orchestrated...just listen to the talking points...

For the legal definition I completely agree about mental illness and it's connotations in court. However, I also believe when hate reaches a level where murder is a viable option, that person is no longer mentally healthy and should be removed from society for it's protection.

Does any little girl want to grow up and be like Keith Oberman and Rachel Madcow? Give me a break. This guy was mentally ill.

If the choice is between ending up like the hateful, ignorant, mentally ill Beck or the astute albeit angry and inflammatory msnbc folk, I think the choice is clear.

a look at their background and accomplishments would make the choice easy for me...but, I was not comparing them. I was simply saying look at the opportunity Beck has to do something positive and look at what he does instead...and I wonder why he's made the choice he has.

American politics has always been filled with rough rhetoric (I'm an historian, and I can state that 19th century political discourse was quite bombastic). But the rhetoric in the last few years has used words that are "over the top" inflammatory. And ss the Arizona public officials have been saying, "words are important." Just as those groups who picketed and singled out abortion providers did not advocate (at least openly) killing them, Palin and the far right types I am sure did not think that their words would elicit yesterday's killings. But, words are important--and people who are really crazy have access to automatic weapons and can carry through with what they believe those with inflammatory rhetoric "really" want.
Frankly, the press is another party that bears the burden of this tragedy. The American press has always been a "for profit" enterprise, but at least in the 20th century, there was a sense they had a "public" obligation, even as profits were important. But with profits now the most important thing (and shareholders who demand good returns)the press has every reason to do whatever it takes to get a story that will attract readers/listeners/watchers. They are more often irresponsible in reporting over-heated rhetoric from people that would have been ignored years ago. What will become of American democracy when elected representatives are too scared to meet face-to-face with their constituents?

Jared Loughner knows that he has a legion of supporters around the country, and within within the state of Arizona in particular.

and a map that has gun sights to pinpoint the locations of a "to get rid of" list that lists candidates/districts by name and is based on their vote on 1 topic.

Actually Palin's map was not solely based on the candidates vote on Health Care. They were districts that McCain/Palin won in 2008 but a Democrat Representative who voted for health care won as well.

Classmate of shooter says he?s ?left wing? and ?quite liberal.? Not sure why so many were quick to make this a right vs left issue but man it sure snowballed fast at the thought he was associated with the Tea Party.

That will put an end to the media reports. It will quickly fade away like the Ft. Hood Massacre when the agenda doesn't fit the story.

By the way he had it in for this congresswoman back in 2007 when he met her in person and didn't like the answer to his question. This had nothing to do with Palin. He's sick in the head.

Yea I guess stating that hateful talk could push someone mentally unstable over the edge could be considered over the top by some, especially those who love to listen to hateful rhetoric.

That is so true, hope we don't have any mentally unstable reading this forum. 😱

Newyorker- good to have you back!