AZ sheriff blames political rhetoric

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This is my how I feel also.

It isn?t about banning or legislating.

It?s about all of us being willing to speak out against inflamatory rhetoric, vitriol, and the like if we do not like it - and expecting the same from our representatives, news media, pundits, etc. It doesn?t mean they have to do it, just that maybe they won?t if there is no benefit or if there are negative repercussions. If incivility, vitriol and the like doesn?t work then there is a better chance that it will be used less. I would think incendiary remarks would have the greatest effect on unstable people who are less likely to process in the way intended.
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A lot of outside influences can have an effect, television, movies, video games, economic struggle, getting kicked out of a community college... road signs, funny smells! I for one am not going walk around on egg shells because I'm worried some psychopath will take issue with what I say or how I dress and try and put a bullet in my head.

The real tragedy here is not that the Keith Olberman's of the world incite political activism and discourse, it's that in our society a kid like this who displays numerous signs of instability while interacting with numerous people (including I might point out, the good sheriff and his department) didn't get routed to the proper people for care and treatment.

A lot of outside influences can have an effect, television, movies, video games, economic struggle, getting kicked out of a community college... road signs, funny smells! I for one am not going walk around on egg shells because I'm worried some psychopath will take issue with what I say or how I dress and try and put a bullet in my head.

The real tragedy here is not that the Keith Olberman's of the world incite political activism and discourse, it's that in our society a kid like this who displays numerous signs of instability while interacting with numerous people (including I might point out, the good sheriff and his department) didn't get routed to the proper people for care and treatment.

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I agree. I'm willing to see more tax dollars used for proper mental health care for vulnerable citizens like this shooter. It is worth it to potentially save lives.

I have no idea about the situation in this AZ county, but in some places mental health facilities are downsizing because of budget cuts, releasing people early, having more restrictions on who to accept and generally providing fewer services. Seems it is more likely that mentally ill will be in jail (with little or no treatment) than in a treatment facillity.


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I am not saying that Palin is directly responsible for this tragedy (yet).

But when she literally draws gun sights on a politician who gets shot along with many others and then immediately starts destroying evidence when the incident occurs it isn't a huge leap or some 'long squiggly twisted line of convoluted lefty logic.'

Palin spews idiocy, lies, irresponsibility, and fiery rhetoric. That will be the case whether there is a link between her and this incident or not.

Are gun sights similiar to the bulls eye targets that the Dems used?

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This is my how I feel also.

It isn?t about banning or legislating.

It?s about all of us being willing to speak out against inflamatory rhetoric, vitriol, and the like if we do not like it - and expecting the same from our representatives, news media, pundits, etc. It doesn?t mean they have to do it, just that maybe they won?t if there is no benefit or if there are negative repercussions. If incivility, vitriol and the like doesn?t work then there is a better chance that it will be used less. I would think incendiary remarks would have the greatest effect on unstable people who are less likely to process in the way intended.


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Why aren't we asking why this young man didn't receive help? He had trouble in high school, he had trouble with the local police department, he was kicked out of college, his teachers, his neighbors, even his peers saw he had mental problems but yet nothing was done. What about his parents...didn't they notice his alter, his strange behavior? The first clerk at Walmart where he went to get the bullets saw that he was acting strange and refused to sell him the bullets...but he didn't called the police, no one did any follow ups on what they saw...Why not, it was because we as a group are afraid to report folks like this, because it usually will be turned back on us..., we have to be careful we are political correct, so to avoid the finger pointing back at us, many say silent and just look away...I bet those 6 dead people and all those folks in the hospital fighting for their lives, would still be alive , IF someone had stood up and demanded that this mentally deranged guy be looked at and removed from society before he hurt someone.

I've not read anything indicating she was targetted due to her politics. I have read she may have been targetted due to her religion though.

Some one reported that he was upset and angry at the Congress Woman because at a meeting about three years ago she answered a question in Spanish...and since" language and grammar" were wired into his brain ...perhaps this simple deed, of answering in Spanish made her his hated target and his focus ...

Newyorker- good to have you back!

Thanks. I have a very demanding job, but I love going to Sowal tor some "beach time"....and I also appreciate the civility of discussions on this chatboard. I may not agree with some of the political or other discourse, and people may not agree with my opinions either, but I think we try to model what ought to be exchanges of sometimes deeply held opinions in ways that respect each other as human beings.

Couldn't find a link to this on Fox.com so you Fox watchers didn't get the memo that Roger Ailes wants you to tone it down.
Fox News' Roger Ailes: "Tone it Down" - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

I find it ironic and pathetic that some politicians, media, sowal posters, elected officials etc. who are quick to blame hateful vitriol for the shootings are they themselves using hateful vitriol to make their point.

I believe you're overreacting and people on this forum are quite civil compared to all the noise in the system out there. Especially since a few people were asked to be nice or leave before Christmas and they haven't been seen since. However:

Sarah Palin is a hateful, despicable media whore who panders to violent extremists.

No doubt she loves the spotlight but this is going too far.

Thanks. I have a very demanding job, but I love going to Sowal tor some "beach time"....and I also appreciate the civility of discussions on this chatboard. I may not agree with some of the political or other discourse, and people may not agree with my opinions either, but I think we try to model what ought to be exchanges of sometimes deeply held opinions in ways that respect each other as human beings.

Thank you. Please post more often. :wave:

(on a side note, Palin has found her place in the world, on a reality TV show, sandwiched between Kate Plus 8 and Bama Belles.)

Regardless of what is on or not on Palin's website about the cross hares (even if it's distasteful), if we look at the big picture, it really shouldn't matter in this particular case. Palin supposedly has a large following who have seen her cross hares, and don't like the Dems, but that doesn't make them want to go out and kill the politicians and other non-political bystanders, does it? If it did, then we have a problem with Palin's cross hares. As I see it, this shooter is a fruit loop that could have been made to kill by watching Wiley E Coyote or listeing to the silly rabbit on the cereal box. He is mentally disturbed and not fit to interact with society.

Her show was not renewed for next season. It will be interesting to see what she does next.

I agree with your premise and the guy was insane no matter what fingers are pointed. If he hadn't been stuck on politics he would have shot up some other group. This is about insanity and violence.

you don't think the context of Palin making firearm analogies is different than when Obama does it? OK whatever.:roll:

Although it's not apples to apples, he is the president. I expect a little more from him.

I have to disagree that the kind of rhetoric filled with vitriol may not have some impact on a mentally unstable person. When you have Palin uses hunting lexicons like, "Don't Retreat, RELOAD!", crosshairs; when during the race for congress, Gifford's opponent advertised a campaign event that said "Get on Target for Victory in November. Get Gifford out of Office, Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelley." 😱
You have to take some responsibility for what could possibly occur. The statements may have not been what directly impacted a pulled trigger, but when constantly barraged by these violent statements by people who are supposed to be an example of mental stability, the nuts start to think that this is socially acceptable, much like teens with eating disorders constantly barraged by images of emaciated models.

There is no place for rhetoric about violence in politics. Once you get in office you can deal with torture, repression, genocide and war.

Video games, violent films, violent books, the internet, dieting commercials, super model shows, political speech, ...

Which should we ban first in order to protect ourselves from what might happen due to the influence some of these mediums might have on someone emotionally challanged??

I vote internet.

The media was chomping at the bit to blame the right way before all the facts were known. We so desperately need to come together as a Country. What will it take?

What it will take is ignoring the knee jerkers on both side and not making sweeping generalizations, or allow them to go unchallenged.

Let's attempt to have a little more depth and understanding.

Clock, corner and time out.

Can some statistics geek come up with numbers that correlate relationship between violent crimes and 'heated rhetroric'. I for one do not subscribe to the idea that political speech is any more incendiary today than in the past. If the theory is that we are a more violent society since Limbaugh, Glenn Beck et al dominated the airwaves, there should be an upward correlation in violence against politicians. I would wager that there is less violence inflicted upon elected officials now than at any period in our country's past.

I might be wrong, but it will be interesting for someone to figure it out.

I agree but what we do have is an incredible pressure cooker of media, overpopulation, sleep deficit, drugs, pressure, inadequate mental health care, lack of discourse, impatience, ignorance, bigotry .... the list goes on.

I see a lot of people who can't deal with the outside world because they don't have a clue who is staring back at them from the mirror. I wish that doctors could prescribe a bit of stillness. Silence.

I believe you're overreacting and people on this forum are quite civil compared to all the noise in the system out there. Especially since a few people were asked to be nice or leave before Christmas and they haven't been seen since. However:



No doubt she loves the spotlight but this is going too far.

With all due respect Kurt - I don't think I was overreacting. The key word in my statement was "some".

I agree but what we do have is an incredible pressure cooker of media, overpopulation, sleep deficit, drugs, pressure, inadequate mental health care, lack of discourse, impatience, ignorance, bigotry .... the list goes on.

I see a lot of people who can't deal with the outside world because they don't have a clue who is staring back at them from the mirror. I wish that doctors could prescribe a bit of stillness. Silence.

A prescription of daily self awareness would be helpful...I am amazed that so many lack self awareness...

Her show was not renewed for next season. It will be interesting to see what she does next.

I agree with your premise and the guy was insane no matter what fingers are pointed. If he hadn't been stuck on politics he would have shot up some other group. This is about insanity and violence.

this is an interesting article on the point about the violence in our country. Is this really the kind of world we want for our children? What are we all willing to do about it?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/opinion/11herbert.html?hp

If we want to reverse the flood tide of killing in this country, we?ll have to do a hell of a lot more than bad-mouth a few sorry politicians and lame-brained talking heads. We need to face up to the fact that this is an insanely violent society.

I remember having lunch with Marian Wright Edelman, the president of the Children?s Defense Fund, a few days after the Virginia Tech tragedy. She shook her head at the senseless loss of so many students and teachers, then told me: ?We?re losing eight children and teenagers a day to gun violence. As far as young people are concerned, we lose the equivalent of the massacre at Virginia Tech about every four days.?

If we were serious, if we really wanted to cut down on the killings, we?d have to do two things. We?d have to radically restrict the availability of guns while at the same time beginning the very hard work of trying to change a culture that glorifies and embraces violence as entertainment, and views violence as an appropriate and effective response to the things that bother us.

Ordinary citizens interested in a more sane and civilized society would have to insist that their elected representatives take meaningful steps to stem the violence. And they would have to demand, as well, that the government bring an end to the wars overseas, with their terrible human toll, because the wars are part of the same crippling pathology.

Without those very tough steps, the murder of the innocents by the tens of thousands will most assuredly continue.

I wouldn?t hold my breath. The Gabrielle Giffords story is big for the time being, but so were Columbine and Oklahoma City. And so was the anti-white killing spree of John Muhammad and Lee Malvo that took 10 lives in Maryland, Virginia and Washington, D.C., in October 2002. But no amount of killing has prompted any real remedial action.

For whatever reasons, neither the public nor the politicians seem to really care how many Americans are murdered ? unless it?s in a terror attack by foreigners. The two most common responses to violence in the U.S. are to ignore it or be entertained by it. The horror prompted by the attack in Tucson on Saturday will pass. The outrage will fade. The murders will continue.

With all due respect Kurt - I don't think I was overreacting. The key word in my statement was "some".

A prescription of daily self awareness would be helpful...I am amazed that so many lack self awareness...

I love it when a plan comes together.