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AZ shooting: Wrong person almost shot

beachFoolBeach Fanatic
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Joe Zamudio and the Gabrielle Giffords shooting: How an armed hero nearly shot the wrong man. - By William Saletan - Slate Magazine

The Wall Street Journal didn't get the whole story, it seems.

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"But before we embrace Zamudio's brave intervention as proof of the value of being armed, let's hear the whole story. "I came out of that store, I clicked the safety off, and I was ready," he explained on Fox and Friends. "I had my hand on my gun. I had it in my jacket pocket here. And I came around the corner like this." Zamudio demonstrated how his shooting hand was wrapped around the weapon, poised to draw and fire. As he rounded the corner, he saw a man holding a gun. "And that's who I at first thought was the shooter," Zamudio recalled. "I told him to 'Drop it, drop it!' "
But the man with the gun wasn't the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. "Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess," the interviewer pointed out."

"This is a much more dangerous picture than has generally been reported. Zamudio had released his safety and was poised to fire when he saw what he thought was the killer still holding his weapon. Zamudio had a split second to decide whether to shoot. He was sufficiently convinced of the killer's identity to shove the man into a wall. But Zamudio didn't use his gun.

That's how close he came to killing an innocent man. He was, as he acknowledges, "very lucky."

Edited

Replies

42
30ashopper avatar
30ashopperSoWal Insider
#2
Joe Zamudio and the Gabrielle Giffords shooting: How an armed hero nearly shot the wrong man. - By William Saletan - Slate Magazine

The Wall Street Journal (and Fox, of course) didn't get the whole story, it seems.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"But before we embrace Zamudio's brave intervention as proof of the value of being armed, let's hear the whole story. "I came out of that store, I clicked the safety off, and I was ready," he explained on Fox and Friends. "I had my hand on my gun. I had it in my jacket pocket here. And I came around the corner like this." Zamudio demonstrated how his shooting hand was wrapped around the weapon, poised to draw and fire. As he rounded the corner, he saw a man holding a gun. "And that's who I at first thought was the shooter," Zamudio recalled. "I told him to 'Drop it, drop it!' "
But the man with the gun wasn't the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter. "Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess," the interviewer pointed out."

"This is a much more dangerous picture than has generally been reported. Zamudio had released his safety and was poised to fire when he saw what he thought was the killer still holding his weapon. Zamudio had a split second to decide whether to shoot. He was sufficiently convinced of the killer's identity to shove the man into a wall. But Zamudio didn't use his gun.

That's how close he came to killing an innocent man. He was, as he acknowledges, "very lucky."

Would a police officer have done any different? Maybe this guy should be on the force. He clearly used good judgement.
poppyBanned
#3
Once we have a Nation of concealed carriers we we will have a senario of Zamudio pulling his weapon on the armed man then another armed citizen pulling his weapon on Zamudio and then, well you get the idea.
beachFoolBeach FanaticAuthor
#4
Would a police officer have done any different? Maybe this guy should be on the force. He clearly used good judgement.

No shopper, it was blind luck...the guy had zero training.


Him carrying a weapon darn made the situation much worse but that doesn't fit the narrative.

Edited

scooterbug44 avatar
scooterbug44SoWal Expert
#5
Would a police officer have done any different? Maybe this guy should be on the force. He clearly used good judgment.

A police officer is at least specifically trained to assess, defuse, and address the situation. This guy had no formal instruction of any kind on how to handle this situation.

Not to mention that even trained professionals/marksman have trouble hitting targets during high stress situations.

From the same article:

"That's what happens when you run with a firearm to a scene of bloody havoc. In the chaos and pressure of the moment, you can shoot the wrong person. Or, by drawing your weapon, you can become the wrong person?a hero mistaken for a second gunman by another would-be hero with a gun. Bang, you're dead. Or worse, bang bang bang bang bang: a firefight among several armed, confused, and innocent people in a crowd."

As always, the solution is not MORE bullets flying through the air, it's keeping them out of the air in the first place.
30ashopper avatar
30ashopperSoWal Insider
#6
No shopper, it was blind luck...the guy had zero training.


Him carrying a weapon darn made the situation much worse but that doesn't fit the narrative.

In light of the fact that 19 people were hurt or killed, you're arguing that having one or two people in the crowd who might have been able to take the shooter out at #'s 3 or 4, but also might shoot the wrong person, is a worse situation than a crowd of people standing defensless against a crazed killer with a backpack full of ammunition? I don't buy it. Granted there are risks, but I don't feel you're giving proper credit, especially considering Zamudio's handling of the situation.
Smiling JOe avatar
Smiling JOeSoWal Expert
#7
Cops are prepared to fire when they pull their weapon, but that doesn't mean that they almost shoot the wrong person.

Unfortuanely, there were something like 15 people who WERE shot, and many more who could have potentially been shot, all who I would classify as "the wrong people."
30ashopper avatar
30ashopperSoWal Insider
#8
It might be interesting to do some research. Major occurrences like this happen rarely. In these instances numerous people in the crowd carrying weapons may well avoid blood shed. But if you have numerous people in the crowd armed at an event like this, you also have to have numerous people armed in situations much less serious. Violent crime rates in states that have more open gun laws might indicate which scenario is better.
poppyBanned
#9
It might be interesting to do some research. Major occurrences like this happen rarely. In these instances numerous people in the crowd carrying weapons may well avoid blood shed. But if you have numerous people in the crowd armed at an event like this, you also have to have numerous people armed in situations much less serious. Violent crime rates in states that have more open gun laws might indicate which scenario is better.

I would like to see violent crime rates in states that have no weapons.
PearlSB4U avatar
PearlSB4UBeach Fanatic
#10
If most of us are carrying guns, does it make us a safer society?

How do US deaths from guns stack up versus, say, Europe?

I don't know the actual statistics, but my intuition is that the larger percentage of folks carrying guns would correlate with more gun deaths.
AndrewG avatar
AndrewGBeach Fanatic
#11
No shopper, it was blind luck...the guy had zero training.


Him carrying a weapon darn made the situation much worse but that doesn't fit the narrative.

People don't need a training class in order to use good judgement.
poppyBanned
#12
People don't need a training class in order to use good judgement.

Then why do 49 states require a mandatory hunter education program?
AndrewG avatar
AndrewGBeach Fanatic
#13
Then why do 49 states require a mandatory hunter education program?

Because Gov't is too big. I hunt all the time across multiple States with the proper licenses and have never had to take a class. Where did you pull that statement from?
poppyBanned
#14
Because Gov't is too big. I hunt all the time across multiple States with the proper licenses and have never had to take a class. Where did you pull that statement from?

Alabama Hunter Education - Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural Resources

Alabama is one of 49 states that has a mandatory hunter education program

I love the way you blame the Gov't for your inconviences

Edited

beachFoolBeach FanaticAuthor
#15
In light of the fact that 19 people were hurt or killed, you're arguing that having one or two people in the crowd who might have been able to take the shooter out at #'s 3 or 4, but also might shoot the wrong person, is a worse situation than a crowd of people standing defensless against a crazed killer with a backpack full of ammunition? I don't buy it. Granted there are risks, but I don't feel you're giving proper credit, especially considering Zamudio's handling of the situation.

I'm glad Zamudio didn't make a real big mistake and I credit blind luck.

The best way to eliminate 19 folks getting shot is limiting the size of magazines to 9 or 10. :sarc:
scooterbug44 avatar
scooterbug44SoWal Expert
#16
If most of us are carrying guns, does it make us a safer society?

How do US deaths from guns stack up versus, say, Europe?

I don't know the actual statistics, but my intuition is that the larger percentage of folks carrying guns would correlate with more gun deaths.

More people with guns do not make us safer - they make us more likely to come in contact with people carrying guns, more likely to be around when a gun is being fired, and more likely to get shot.

The easier you make if for people to get guns, the easier you make it for incidents like this to occur.

UNTIL THE SECOND HE STARTED SHOOTING AT PEOPLE, this whack job was in full compliance with the laws - that have been continuously weakened by the gun lobbys.

Completely untrained, mentally ill people, carrying a concealed automatic weapon at a crowded grocery store is the opposite of safe IMO.
GoodWitch58Beach Fanatic
#17
it will be very interesting/sad when investigators figure out which bullet (11-20) killed which person and realize who would still be alive today or not critically injuried today; if the assault weapons law had not been allowed to expire.

I wonder if there is precedent for filing a wrongful death suit against Congress...
scooterbug44 avatar
scooterbug44SoWal Expert
#19
Baloney - hunter's safety class is a good thing.
Smiling JOe avatar
Smiling JOeSoWal Expert
#20
I'm glad Zamudio didn't make a real big mistake and I credit blind luck.

The best way to eliminate 19 folks getting shot is limiting the size of magazines to 9 or 10. :sarc:

By limiting the size of the magazines to 9 or 10 doesn't eliminate 19 folks getting shot.

The only ways I can think of to have prevented this incident would have been A) having more people take interest in the guy at a much younger age so that he didn't have to suffer through his mental illness alone, without treatment, or B) having one of numerous people report this guy as a fruit loop and the gov't testing him and treating him accordingly, thereby getting him off the streets.

Someone mentioned wanting to see stats in a place where there were no weapons. I cannot think of a place where weapons don't exist. You can kill a person quickly with a wooden pencil, credit card, stick, etc. You don't need a gun to kill people. It just makes it easier in some circumstances.

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