Collegiate High School for South Walton through Seaside Neighborhood School

[Kurt]

The Walton County School Board met in workshop session to hear about a possible Collegiate High School for South Walton through Seaside Neighborhood School.


SW Vice-Principals Johnathan D'Avignon and James Ross said that when you look at the academic needs there is a diverse population. South Walton High is close to the current Northwest Florida State College as well as the library and Boys & Girls Club. At this time, if a student wants dual enrollment, they have to drive to Niceville and that takes time and money. Some students are going to Collegiate High School in Okaloosa, taking their talent with them. They said some of what this would offer is advanced placement, associates degree, community services, instructional diversity, and complementary school models.


Cathy Brubaker, Director at Seaside, said they met with the staff at the South Walton campus of NWFSC and found there are classrooms underutilized. These could be leased for a collegiate school. She said this helps with the cost of college by providing two years. She also said there is a greater chance they would take additional years of college. The student would graduate with a degree from Seaside and with an AA from NWFSC. Seaside would provide the 9th and 10th grade levels and the students would go to Niceville for 11th and 12th due to the amount of classes offered. She also said they could get students from Okaloosa that do not want to cross the bridge.


Brubaker talked about small schools. Teachers can follow a student and pull them back in if they see they are having trouble. Students in small schools typically have a sense of belongingness. There is a high rate of parent participation. She said at Seaside, they leave with an increased sense of self worth and confidence, they are more motivated, and have higher expectations for success.


The School Board asked about costs and who pays for the classes. They also asked about transportation for the 11th and 12th graders. The Board also pointed out most of the classes are already offered at the high school. Brubaker agreed, saying this offers another option. The idea of students getting an AA when they graduate and a four year degree at 20 or 21 then finding they can not go on was brought up. Member Mark Davis said the younger students can be overlooked or not admitted when trying to go onto the masters level. He said the colleges feel they are simply too young. Superintendent Carlene Anderson said the collegiate is a want, not necessarily a need.

- as reported on WZEP AM 1460.

 

[momof2kids]

I think the last line is wrong. Having a collegiate level high school locally is a need. We need to have more options for our kids in this area. The kids need to know they have this great opportunity and have goals to attend it.

The only option is in Niceville which is hard for parents to get their child to & from. Not all parents can afford to buy another car for their child that would qualify to get into the program at Niceville.

The collegiate high school IS a NEED. Once again Carlene is wrong.

 

[Jdarg]

Actually, dual enrollment is available at SWHS and has been for years. Our son dual enrolled his senior year. It is not the Collegiate High School, where the kids are actually enrolled in that degree program, and had to go to Niceville- any high school student can take classes at NWFSC in SoWal and Niceville. I know kids who did this most of their junior and senior years, especially when there was block scheduling (because the kids ran out of math and science by senior year), some earned their AA. Currently, SWHS students have the opportunity to mix it up- AP and honors classes,and fill in with some community college classes here and there, another excellent option for college prep.

I am thrilled about Mr. D'Avignon and Ms. Brubaker working together- this is a win-win for all of our students. We can be an educational powerhouse by working together instead of apart.

 

[DaleDalbey]

So if the charter school is approved, the dollars per student allocated by the state are removed from the county school board coffers and given to the charter school entity. To be clearer, the county loses money when a charter school opens. Is there any wonder that Ms Anderson is opposed to it? She is worried about her budget, not students. It is a huge conflict of interest for Ms Anderson and the school board to have this kind of power.

 

[DaleDalbey]

To Mr Davis' argument that younger students could be overlooked when attempting to get into a masters program... We can ensure they will not be chosen if we don't even give them the chance. Is his opinion based upon the experience of previous collegiate high school graduates? Where is his empirical data? A statement like his is either a fact, an opinion, or a guess. Guesses have no place in our design-making. Opinions should have critical thinking and information to back them up. Facts should be shared.

 

[Bob Wells]

I have had 2 of my children go to the collegiate High School in Niceville in the past. One became a teacher and the other a firefighter. Excellent program as it is run at NWFSC, if it could be replicated in Walton County it would be awesome. It was worth the added expense to send them and feel it benefited them both.

 

[Jdarg]

To Mr Davis' argument that younger students could be overlooked when attempting to get into a masters program... We can ensure they will not be chosen if we don't even give them the chance. Is his opinion based upon the experience of previous collegiate high school graduates? Where is his empirical data? A statement like his is either a fact, an opinion, or a guess. Guesses have no place in our design-making. Opinions should have critical thinking and information to back them up. Facts should be shared.

I like the idea of the high school kids having options in SoWal- traditional high school, dual enrollment, AP, collegiate high school model. We don't have many schools, but building a strong network of choices is very important.

Just be careful when the discussion turns to the
"best" option being the charter or collegiate high school model over the traditional high school/AP model at SWHS. Saying that our kids will not get into a good Master's program without the collegiate high school model is grossly inaccurate. From a lot of the talk you would think students are leaving SoWal in droves and that is simply not the case. A small minority of the high achieving kids go to out-of-county options -the majority of our high achieving kids and their families choose to stay at SWHS with excellent results in their future studies, hardly the brain drain that I hear discussed when making the argument for a collegiate high school option here. So nobody panic- plenty of exceptional students remain here, are happy, do well, get into great schools, and go on to successful lives!

However- Mrs. Anderson needs to understand that our specific need in SoWal is a model of the South Walton schools working together, with options, so our students have the choices needed right here at home. We have the smart people to make it happen with some excellent leadership in our middle and high schools. They need to be supported to create this model of options. Both schools should be fully embraced by the community- there is no reason why South Walton can't be an educational magnet!

 

[DaleDalbey]

To clarify, I was not suggesting our students could not get into graduate school. Mr Davis' suggestion that younger students who go through the collegiate program would be viewed differently when applying for graduate school. This is a criticism of all collegiate programs or dual enrollment, not just a new program in South Walton. School board members who are concerned about theoretical grad school admission rates and not educational opportunities is my concern.

 

[Jdarg]

To clarify, I was not suggesting our students could not get into graduate school. Mr Davis' suggestion that younger students who go through the collegiate program would be viewed differently when applying for graduate school. This is a criticism of all collegiate programs or dual enrollment, not just a new program in South Walton. School board members who are concerned about theoretical grad school admission rates and not educational opportunities is my concern.[/QUOTE

I think Mr. Davis does have legitimate questions and concerns, and I am glad he is asking them because of course the charter school is going to promote their model in the best light, as they should. Of all the school board members, Mr. Davis is the one that understands our desire in SoWal to have competitive, well-rounded, and versatile programs for our students- after dealing with WCSD stuff over the last 6 years, I have found him to be wise and careful. There are legitimate questions about the collegiate high school model, and not looking at the whole picture would be irresponsible. I am glad he is looking at it from all angles, and other parents should be glad as well. He is not asking the questions to be negative or to criticize, but to find out all the information. When parents and students are presented with choices, it is helpful to know the pros and cons of each option.

Mr. Davis has known for a number of years that we have wanted SWHS to be officially college prep focused. Today I expressed our desire for the collaboration of the schools, about how South Walton could be an educational powerhouse, but also that we be very careful that there is not negative impact on SWHS- the school 95% of our kids will attend- they need to compliment, not compete- both schools need to be rocking it! We now have a 5th grader, and you can bet we are completely focused on her freshman year in 2017.

Regarding the specific questions raised about grad school- graduate school is on many parent radars, and Mr. Davis' question was an important question concerning age and maturity when graduating college at a younger age, and how the collegiate/dual models stack up in grad school admissions. I would like to know more, not just what the proponents of the CHS model tell me. If a student finishes 2 years of undergrad at a community college, goes on to do the last two years at a 4 year university, possibly graduating at age 20, is the graduate program going to look at them the same way as a student who completed all 4 years at a top tier 4 year university and did not do half of their college course work at a community college during their high school years? Do they look at students who went to 4 year university more favorably than those completing half their course week at the community college level? Does age and maturity play a role? It seems to be a different animal than students who graduate from high school, and start college in the community college system at age 18 or older. My gut tells me I would choose the 22 year old who spent 4 years at a competitive 4 year university over the 20 year old who completed half his college education during the high school years at a community college. I am sure there are other factors that are important in the grad school admission process, but on the surface, this seems to be a legitimate question and I hope the charter school can address it with real data. I would like to see competitive law school and med school admissions personnel asked this question and see their response. Once again, legitimate question, not a criticism. Inquiring minds want to know!

I am confident this will work out for the charter school, and our students will have a "buffet" of options. I hope parents do their own research about which model is the best fit for their student, and not just want their child to attend one school or the other because of preconceived notions about the charter school or SWHS, and understand certain features are not "truths" about one model or another. Just like in a larger community, when we look at schools for our kids, there are certain features we consider important, and some we don't like. I also hope the administrators of both schools take into account individual student needs and don't push them towards one program over another based on stocking their own program.

Our own personal story is this-we did our research with our older son, and found that the collegiate high school model was not a good fit for multiple reasons. Everybody is different, but we chose the AP/dual enrollment route for more flexibility as we weren't certain of college plans. Had we been living in Louisville, he would have attended a competitive college prep/AP focused school, as the uber high performing publics and privates in Louisville are AP or IB based, so that was our comfort zone and experience. We went with a model we knew and what we knew would be accepted at any college in the country without having to commit to a CHS program in 10th grade, since we were concerned we would have to contact every potential college to see if they would take community college credits. (Son ended up in state at UF, but I don't know that we would have made different plans knowing that we would stay in state.) We did not consider having 2 "free" years of college tuition a big priority (but free would have been nice ha ha! . By the same token we did not look at AP as a way to get free college credits. We were just looking for rigor and the "tried and true" college prep model that has a national testing system to measure the quality of both the teachers and students the AP classes. The AP classes at SWHS can be measured against any other AP classes all over the country, and our son's scores were in line with his friends from home who attended the "uber schools" and his UF friends from very competitive privates and publics all over the country. Our family's experience is ours, but I share it because there are many families out there that maybe don't know the questions to ask. Our experience is also completely about being focused on a 4 year university degree, and not everybody is going to go that direction.

It all boils down to one thing- parents having enough legit information to make good decisions about educational choices. Knowledge is power. Ask lots of questions. The college planning starts in 7th grade now- yes folks, that's right, 7th grade. Maybe in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter which model you choose, but that you start early enough! I imagine we will be gathering college app info in preschool 5 years from now. Now my brain is tired and I am going to bed!

 

[DaleDalbey]

We are on the same page. If I could wiggle my nose and create an environment in which my son would excel the most, I would choose the IB/AP model. While I want him to be academically challenged, I am not interested in him completing is undergrad in the 2-2 program that the collegiate model is based upon. In his case, he would be only 19 years old with an undergraduate degree. I would rather see him prepared in high school to excel in college, spend 4 years there, and leave educated and on a path to true adulthood.