• Trouble logging in? Send us a message with your username and/or email address for help.
New posts

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,706
3,339
Sowal
I would love to hear the SoWal take on immigration, as I know I don't have all the facts/the whole picture.

Two MAJOR questions I have:
What are the cons of just legalizing everyone already here and then instituting draconian requirements & punishments for hiring/being an illegal alien? I would think we would gain lots of $ in social security, taxes etc.

Am I the only one who hears the plan to "build a wall" to keep illegals out and either thinks of Berlin or the extreme cost/political dissentegration of China after they built the Great Wall (best example I could think of as a border wall)?
 

30A Skunkape

Skunky
Jan 18, 2006
10,307
2,342
54
Backatown Seagrove
The governement thus far has shown nearly zero interest in enforcing immigration law as it exists;why do you think they would start now?

The wall might be extreme but the continued influx of people who have ZERO interest in assimilating in a manner similar to the two waves of immigration in the late 19th/early 20th century may lead to a Balkanization that would be terrible for the United States. Evidence for this already exists in Georgia, and the southwest.

There is NO financial advantage to the United States in having tens of millions of low skilled immigrants suddenly legalized.
 

30A Skunkape

Skunky
Jan 18, 2006
10,307
2,342
54
Backatown Seagrove
Ten questions I copied from a radio host's website. Good questions indeed.


1. There's a backlog of up to 6 million status change applications at ICE. ICE cannot locate 636,000 absconders whose cases have been adjudicated and who are supposed to be deported. GAO after GAO report has found that the ICE and Department of Homeland Security are bureaucratic disasters. So the question is, how will these bureaucrats handle tens of millions of more cases?

2. The bill provides that these bureaucrats will have only one business day to conduct security checks for each applicant. The federal government is incapable of conducting millions of security checks in such a time frame. So, how will these security checks be accomplished in one business day?

3. After the one business day, the bill provides that the government SHALL confer a probationary legal status on the illegal alien. If that's not amnesty, then how do you define amnesty?

4. If an illegal alien "renounces" his gang status, that's sufficient for receiving probationary legal status. How will you make sure that such a person is not, in fact, a gang member before conferring legal rights on him?

5. The bill allows for chain migration for EIGHT YEARS before a point system kicks in. You ask what we're supposed to do with the up to 20 million illegal aliens who are already in the country, and yet you provide for 50 to 80 million more aliens to enter. So, you're really talking about legalizing tens of millions of new aliens, including aliens who aren't even in the country yet. What is you public policy justification for this?

6. How can you deny that legalizing and importing tens of millions of mostly poor and illiterate aliens from the Third World won't be an economic catastrophy for the Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps and other entitlement programs? Even Milton Friedman said he would favor open borders but for the fact that to do so would be to massively expand the size of the federal government.

7. How can you deny that legalizing and importing tens of millions of mostly poor and illiterate aliens from the Third World won't drive more hospitals out of business and place enormous financial burdens on our school systems?

8. Why should American citizens believe you are serious about border security when the bill does NOT require more beds for temporary detention, more prison beds, or more fencing. In fact, CURRENT LAW requires more detention and prison space and more fencing than this bill provides.

9. The bill provides for a very low threshold when it comes to the kinds of documents you need to claim amnesty -- such as records from day labor centers, labor unions, "sworn declarations" from any non-relative (a co-worker or friend will do). How can the bureaucracy possibly determine the integrity of any of these documents?

10. The bill provides for free legal counsel paid for by the taxpayers of this country. Isn't this a boondoggle for the trial lawyers and doesn't this open the entire process to activist judges?
 

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,706
3,339
Sowal
This is why I posted on Sowal - this is a debacle!

I veto free legal counsel (are you FREAKING kidding me), the gang provision, and the one day to investigate!

Good gravy, you can't get a passport renewed in less than 3 months, but you can become a legal citizen after 1 day!

Pre 9/11 a friend was a summer intern for the FBI and it took months for her to get security clearance - as a natural born american and daughter of a colonel! It took a day just for them to send out a field agent from the nearest office, interview me as a character reference, return to the office and type up a report!
 

30A Skunkape

Skunky
Jan 18, 2006
10,307
2,342
54
Backatown Seagrove
Can you elaborate on the Balkanization effect?

Sure. We currently have a huge number of illegals that do not view themselves as Americans although they live and work in the US. They are more than happy to live in closed communities, make no attempt to assimilate, make no attempt to learn English, demand their kids be taught in Spanish (in our schools:bang: ) so as to ensure continued linguistic isolation, etc, etc. Government sanctioning and intensification of this phenomenon can only lead to trouble down the road.
 

30A Skunkape

Skunky
Jan 18, 2006
10,307
2,342
54
Backatown Seagrove
This is why I posted on Sowal - this is a debacle!

I veto free legal counsel (are you FREAKING kidding me), the gang provision, and the one day to investigate!

Good gravy, you can't get a passport renewed in less than 3 months, but you can become a legal citizen after 1 day!

Pre 9/11 a friend was a summer intern for the FBI and it took months for her to get security clearance - as a natural born american and daughter of a colonel! It took a day just for them to send out a field agent from the nearest office, interview me as a character reference, return to the office and type up a report!

Exactly. This is an awful piece of legislation that the Senate and President are all too willing to plunge head over heels to pass. The only groups I can tell want this thing passed are political prostitutes who think they will enjoy the fruits of more voters and big industry who do not want an uninterrupted flow of semi-slave labor. Opposition comes from camps as diverse as the AFL/CIO and conservative political groups. If there was ever a time to contact your elected officials and let them know what is on your mind, this is it. As a citizen of Florida in about 90 hours, believe me, I noted how Mel Martinez voted on cloture yesterday and he will have a little bit of political hell to pay the next election cycle.
 

Bob

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2004
10,366
1,391
O'Wal
It's going to be the world's most expensive border fence. I keep thinking the Great Wall didn't work for China either. Maybe we could promise Mexico all our remaining factories. After all, Mexicans working at home assembling cars we buy make on average 3.00-3.50 an hour. What a deal for Ford, GM et al. My question is, what is there to debate about? Our southern border isn't really a border.
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,644
1,773
I see the NRA (National Restaurant Association) is unsurprisingly pushing for amnesty for illegal aliens.

A simple thought on this whole thing is that if we tell people it is wrong to do something, then reward them for doing the wrong thing, we are sending the wrong message. As a way to advance as a society, you reward people for doing the right thing, not the wrong thing. A CFD 101 (child family development) class or dog obedience class will easily help you understand that you reinforce the behaviour you want repeated by giving reward or taking away punishment. Creating amnesty for people who are here illegally, is rewarding behaviour that is stripping what America is supposed to be about. I know people who have been fighting for their Green Card for many years, and now we are going to allow the people who broke the rules, to be first in line for Citizenship??? :dunno: The answer is maybe to simplistic for politicians.
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,644
1,773
I did hear some comments that we should move all bomb testing to the Mexican border and if a Mexican makes it across, they get to stay. If I were Mexican, I would be running for the USA, too. Good pay (compared to Mexico), free health care at Emergency Rooms, and no punishment for wrong doings.
 
New posts


Sign Up for SoWal Newsletter