• Trouble logging in? Send us a message with your username and/or email address for help.
New posts

Linda

Beach Fanatic
Jul 11, 2005
806
190
Review & Outlook
Their Fair Share
The Wall Street Journal

July 21, 2008

Washington is teeing up "the rich" for a big tax hike next year, as a way to make them "pay their fair share." Well, the latest IRS data have arrived on who paid what share of income taxes in 2006, and it's going to be hard for the rich to pay any more than they already do. The data show that the 2003 Bush tax cuts caused what may be the biggest increase in tax payments by the rich in American history.
The nearby chart shows that the top 1% of taxpayers, those who earn above $388,806, paid 40% of all income taxes in 2006, the highest share in at least 40 years. The top 10% in income, those earning more than $108,904, paid 71%. Barack Obama says he's going to cut taxes for those at the bottom, but that's also going to be a challenge because Americans with an income below the median paid a record low 2.9% of all income taxes, while the top 50% paid 97.1%. Perhaps he thinks half the country should pay all the taxes to support the other half.
Aha, we are told: The rich paid more taxes because they made a greater share of the money. That is true. The top 1% earned 22% of all reported income. But they also paid a share of taxes not far from double their share of income. In other words, the tax code is already steeply progressive.
We also know from income mobility data that a very large percentage in the top 1% are "new rich," not inheritors of fortunes. There is rapid turnover in the ranks of the highest income earners, so much so that people who started in the top 1% of income in the 1980s and 1990s suffered the largest declines in earnings of any income group over the subsequent decade, according to Treasury Department studies of actual tax returns. It's hard to stay king of the hill in America for long.
The most amazing part of this story is the leap in the number of Americans who declared adjusted gross income of more than $1 million from 2003 to 2006. The ranks of U.S. millionaires nearly doubled to 354,000 from 181,000 in a mere three years after the tax cuts.
This is precisely what supply-siders predicted would happen with lower tax rates on capital gains, dividends and income. The economy and earnings would grow faster, which they did; investors would declare more capital gains and companies would pay out more dividends, which they did; the rich would invest less in tax shelters at lower tax rates, so their tax payments would rise, which did happen.
The idea that this has been a giveaway to the rich is a figment of the left's imagination. Taxes paid by millionaire households more than doubled to $274 billion in 2006 from $136 billion in 2003. No President has ever plied more money from the rich than George W. Bush did with his 2003 tax cuts. These tax payments from the rich explain the very rapid reduction in the budget deficit to 1.9% of GDP in 2006 from 3.5% in 2003.
This year, thanks to the credit mess and slower growth, taxes paid by the rich may fall and the deficit will rise. (The nonstimulating tax rebates will also hurt the deficit.) Mr. Obama proposes to close this deficit by raising tax rates on the rich to their highest levels since the late 1970s. The very groups like the Congressional Budget Office and Tax Policy Center that wrongly predicted that the 2003 investment tax cuts would cost about $1 trillion in lost revenue are now saying that repealing those tax cuts would gain similar amounts. We'll wager it'd gain a lot less.
If Mr. Obama does succeed in raising tax rates on the rich, we'd also wager that the rich share of tax payments would fall. The last time tax rates were as high as the Senator wants them -- the Carter years -- the rich paid only 19% of all income taxes, half of the 40% share they pay today. Why? Because they either worked less, earned less, or they found ways to shelter income from taxes so it was never reported to the IRS as income.

The way to soak the rich is with low tax rates, and last week's IRS data provide more powerful validation of that proposition.
 

bentley williams

Beach Fanatic
Feb 24, 2005
654
129
SoWal
Who created the laws which allow all the money and jobs offshore? The same people who want to keep more and more and more and more of their money while America becomes a nation of ultra poor and ultra rich.
The corporations who own our government have almost run out of ways to bilk the American people through favorable tax laws so now they are eliminating the middle man. The corporations ARE the government. What do you think Iraq is all about? War is the easiest way to get rich.
We should tax the rich and rebuild the middle class which was what made America great. Anybody who believes that taxing fat cats and getting corporations to pay their fair share is not right is listening to the people with the money. Where's your heart America? Have you given up on your neighbors?
 

Mango

SoWal Insider
Apr 7, 2006
9,699
1,368
New York/ Santa Rosa Beach
Here's a chart composed by the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution:

gr2008061200193.gif


I'll let y'all chew on this for a while.

However, I will say this much. The deficit the current administration has put this country in leaves us indebted to countries like China, Saudi Arabia, etc; which is a huge national security threat. McCain's plan also leaves us with a larger deficit than Obama's plan from purely a tax perspective.
 

Miss Kitty

Meow
Jun 10, 2005
47,011
1,131
71
Thanks, Mango. Can I believe this? :dunno:

Let me say this...I would not be against paying more taxes if I was assured my gov't. was going to do the right thing. However, when I hear stories like the following, my altruistic side becomes cynical.

Spoke with a friend who was telling me about his friend who is in charge of the free lunch/breakfast program at his child's school. She told him that she tells many of the kids she knows personally (and that do NOT qualify for free lunch/breakfast) to grab something to eat for free if they arrive early for school. He was stunned when I told him his friend was guilty of fraud and probably something else I am not aware of. I know and so do you that this story is a drop in the bucket. There are many people that need a hand in this country, but when each generation becomes used to the hand out with no questions asked, the gov't. has taught them the same thing as Pavlov's dog.
 

Mango

SoWal Insider
Apr 7, 2006
9,699
1,368
New York/ Santa Rosa Beach
Thanks, Mango. Can I believe this? :dunno:

The analysis was completed by the Tax Policy Center, a joint project of the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution. The same link Margarita gave. The Washington Post just used it. I'll make the correction above.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/09/ST2008060900950.html

Kitty, although yes, technically your friend dispensing free breakfast/lunch is "fraud", I wonder how many kids who don't need it, will actually take advantage of it. When I was in high school, I was entitled to the freebie, my parents were divorced at that time, but I was embarrassed to use it. That person may also see many kids going without breakfast, which is really the most important meal as far as learning is concerned. I'm thinking the rationale is, the more kids that use it, the less of a stigma it has. :dunno:
 

wrobert

Beach Fanatic
Nov 21, 2007
4,132
575
63
DeFuniak Springs
www.defuniaksprings.com
Thanks, Mango. Can I believe this? :dunno:

Let me say this...I would not be against paying more taxes if I was assured my gov't. was going to do the right thing. However, when I hear stories like the following, my altruistic side becomes cynical.

Spoke with a friend who was telling me about his friend who is in charge of the free lunch/breakfast program at his child's school. She told him that she tells many of the kids she knows personally (and that do NOT qualify for free lunch/breakfast) to grab something to eat for free if they arrive early for school. He was stunned when I told him his friend was guilty of fraud and probably something else I am not aware of. I know and so do you that this story is a drop in the bucket. There are many people that need a hand in this country, but when each generation becomes used to the hand out with no questions asked, the gov't. has taught them the same thing as Pavlov's dog.


Since you would not mind paying more taxes about taking the additional amount you would not mind paying and give it to a charity that you feel will do the right thing?
 

TooFarTampa

SoWal Insider
Let me say this...I would not be against paying more taxes if I was assured my gov't. was going to do the right thing. However, when I hear stories like the following, my altruistic side becomes cynical.

I agree with you. I would be interested to see how charitable giving has been affected by the lowering of the tax rate. It seems to me that such private giving has been pretty strong until recently.

I also wonder how the tech and housing bubbles helped with the increase in the federal income tax collected, if they did at all. I don't know if the tech bubble popped too early to affect these numbers, and I don't know if the huge surge in taxes collected on the state level from all those real estate transaction had any affect on the federal income tax collected.

My main concern about Obama's plan (and he hasn't been specific enough yet) is his announcement that he plans to increase the SS payroll tax on those with the highest incomes, which is fine ... as long as those people are guaranteed higher benefits later. To not do so would make SS even more blatantly an entitlement program, which goes against the spirit of why it was created.
 

Mango

SoWal Insider
Apr 7, 2006
9,699
1,368
New York/ Santa Rosa Beach
My main concern about Obama's plan (and he hasn't been specific enough yet) is his announcement that he plans to increase the SS payroll tax on those with the highest incomes, which is fine ... as long as those people are guaranteed higher benefits later. To not do so would make SS even more blatantly an entitlement program, which goes against the spirit of why it was created.

There's a cap on the amount based on contributions anyway. Then it is adjusted for inflation, yearly. I don't know exactly how much, but everyone is entitled to see their future SS statement. I get mine yearly. I've been working my entire life and had some very fruitful years. I did not see a huge change in my retirement entitlement benefit statement when those years were factored in. :dunno:
 

TooFarTampa

SoWal Insider
There's a cap on the amount based on contributions anyway. Then it is adjusted for inflation, yearly. I don't know exactly how much, but everyone is entitled to see their future SS statement. I get mine yearly. I've been working my entire life and had some very fruitful years. I did not see a huge change in my retirement entitlement benefit statement when those years were factored in. :dunno:

Right, so if you raise the contributions cap, then you should also find a way to raise the benefits cap. It's just the way I always thought SS was supposed to work. It may not make for much at the end, but there absolutely should be a way to factor it in. It's one of those few things about the entire race that seem black-and-white to me. :roll: Don't know why.
 
New posts


Sign Up for SoWal Newsletter