The American Dream

Here's exactly how QE2 works. A handful of kids with a couple of computers, telegraphing their moves in the world's largest game of poker with Wall Street.

All of this is based off of a theoretical college paper. The good news is they are getting the exact opposite result they were counting on, but that's ok because that means it's working as they expected.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/business/economy/11fed.html?_r=2&emc=eta1

I read thru the article twice... and I really don't get it. I'm slow & stupid that way.

It DOES just seem like a game they devised, constructed, and... mostly,
play with themselves ---> BTW,
there's another more descriptive word for that act :roll:

Since it's a private game they get to change the rules, parameters, and definitions of a successful win on a whim. But no worries right? THEY will always win!

Below 2nd paragraph excerpt with emboldened quote by the game-creators themselves "insist the program has succeeded"...
reminds me of the US Treasury declaring the HAMP program a success. P'LEEZE.


Bolds are mine

The trouble is, though yields fell sharply between August and November as the markets anticipated the new program, they have risen since it was formally announced in November, leaving many in the markets puzzled about the value of the Fed?s bond-buying program.


Mr. Frost, and his boss, Brian P. Sack, insist the program has succeeded. Mr. Sack, 40, joined the Fed 18 months ago to run the entire markets group. He has a Ph.D. from M.I.T. and worked most recently for a Washington consulting firm. In 2004, he wrote a paper with Ben S. Bernanke, the future chairman of the Federal Reserve, and another economist about unconventional measures for stimulating the economy in extraordinary times ? just like large-scale purchases of Treasuries.

I read thru the article twice... and I really don't get it. I'm slow & stupid that way.

It DOES just seem like a game they devised, constructed, and... mostly,
play with themselves ---> BTW,
there's another more descriptive word for that act :roll:

Not slow at all! It's really that crazy. Any wonder why banks have record profits?

I'm reminded of the movie Armageddon, when the Bruce Willis character says something along the lines of, "you're NASA for pete's sake! I thought you all had a room full of guys just thinking stuff up, and another room of guys backing them up! You mean this is it? Our hope rests on this?"

I don't know what to think. It scares me is all I know.

Harry Schultz?s last investment testament Peter Brimelow - MarketWatch


By Peter Brimelow, MarketWatch
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) ? After 45 years, Harry Schultz has just published the last issue of his International Harry Schultz Letter. He?s superbearish but opportunistic.


....?Roughly speaking, the mess we are in is the worst since 17th century financial collapse. Comparisons with the 1930?s are ludicrous. We?ve gone far beyond that. And, alas, the courage & political will to recognize the mess & act wisely to reverse gears, is absent in U.S. leadership, where the problems were hatched & where the rot is by far the deepest.? He writes favorably of investment advice given in a recent interview by former Reagan Office of Management and Budget Director David Stockman:
?Stockman replied (to my huge surprise, coming from a former top government official) ?Get some gold, beans, water, anything that Bernanke can?t destroy. Ron Paul is right. We?re entering a global monetary conflagration. If a sell-off of U.S. bonds starts, it will be an Armageddon.??
About gold, Schultz retains his long-term bullishness. He quotes the respected Seeking Alpha service:
?For gold to match the growth in US M1, M2, public debt & budget deficit, gold will have to reach $1,800, $2,400, $7,800 & $13,200, respectively. While I can?t imagine gold going to $13k, these numbers tell me that calling gold a bubble is a bit premature. In my view, money supply, public debt & the budget deficit are in a bubble, not gold, not yet.?
Schultz?s comment: ?Wake me up at $2,400 gold.?....

you are on a roll

moss makes me itchy

perhaps you need to live through a full blown depression

Throw it at me, I'm pretty sure I can handle it. Been through a muck of you know what, came out the other side smelling like something different. ;-)

TNJed, for those of us who are fiscally illiterate, such as I, your explaination and postings regarding the Fed have been most illuminating. While some may not have the fiscal acuity of others such as you, we have been raised through the depression to save, save, save. From some of what I read, that may all be for nought although I might be misintrepting. Nevertheless, thank you most sincerely for the explainations and your personal insight into our financial mess.

One last reading recommendation for now...

Amazon.com: The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve (9780912986210): G. Edward Griffin: Books


And a review by Stephen McCarthy. Just a regular reviewer but his description is spot on and wanted to give him due credit.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
"What is The Creature From Jekyll Island? Well, first of all, it's uglier than The Creature from the Black Lagoon; it's more densely wrapped in deception than the Mummy is in cloth; it sucks the lifeblood of America more ravenously than Dracula does his victims; it reeks worse than the Werewolf; and it's stronger and more dangerous than Doctor Frankenstein's miscreation!

The Creature from Jekyll Island is the PRIVATE Federal Reserve that holds America and Her People hostage with an astoundingly perverse and "criminal" economic system that is an evil beyond your worst monster-infested nightmare. But the Creature comes in a guise to mislead the people, like a Wolfman in sheep's clothing.

Why is the system "criminal"? Because the U.S. Constitution proclaims itself to be the "supreme Law of the Land" (see Article VI), and Article I, Section VIII of the Constitution states that "The Congress shall (Constitutionally speaking, "shall" has been legally defined as "must")...coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures." Why Congress? Because it is answerable to the People it represents! Remember, our Constitutional Republic was meant to be representational government! We're a long way from that now! The Federal Reserve is NOT Congress; it is unelected, meaning nonrepresentational, and being therefore unconstitutional, it is illegal, hence "criminal."

I first read G. Edwrd Griffin's magnificent study, 'The Creature From Jekyll Island' eight years ago. I had read plenty of political books prior to this one, and countless since, but Mr. Griffin's tour de force has yet to be equaled when it comes to educating the reader in wide-ranging topics that coalesce most of the geopolitical mysteries of our time into the diabolical scheme known as the Federal Reserve System.

Don't make the mistake of letting the sophisticated subject matter drive you away as forcefully as the intriguing title beckons you. Despite the complexity of the topic, G. Edward Griffin masterfully organizes the material and lays it out, not only in a very readable manner, but he actually fashions a carefully researched, extensively footnoted nonfiction tome into a spellbinding journey that reads nearly like a page-turning mystery novel.

In the process of explaining and demystifying the history, the stated goals of the Federal Reserve, and the real agenda behind it, Mr. Griffin necessarily enlightens the reader about myriad conspirators who occupy positions in a variety of social engineering organizations. Without this understanding, one could not possibly grasp the full scope of the problem, nor fathom how such a demonstrably evil entity could have remained cloaked and in power since 1913. (Indeed the thirteenth year of the Twentieth Century represented an unlucky number for America and eventually the world.)

You will find some reviewers here complaining that Mr. Griffin has unfortunately polluted his 600+ page study with John Birch Society style conspiracy theories. What you WON'T find is where any of those same reviewers have proven any errors in fact committed by Mr. Griffin. They challenge the idea of a conspiracy, but not any of the abundant and overt evidence that clearly points to it. I myself don't like little yapping dogs, but I'm not prepared to say that they don't exist simply because I'd prefer not to even think about them. And I can hear those yapping quadrupeds as clearly as I can see the indisputable evidence of underhanded collusion in high and influential places when it comes to this country's monetary system.

"You are a den of vipers!" President Andrew Jackson thundered at a delegation of supporters of the central Bank of the United States in 1834. "I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God I will rout you out!" Jackson succeeded in ridding this country of the inherent perniciousness that a central bank levels on a nation. But President Jackson's hard-earned victory for his countrymen was sadly overturned in 1913, when a corrupt privately owned central bank was again foisted on the sleeping people of this once free nation in the form of The Federal Reserve cartel. As Griffin states on page 573, "The Federal Reserve is the world's largest and most successful scam."

I will tell you plainly that regardless of what you think you know about the political spectrum, Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, civil rights and corporate greed, socialism and capitalism -- regardless of how well informed you may think you are by reading mainstream news magazines and newspapers, listening to NPR and talk radio programs and watching political debates on nightly news TV shows -- until you have read and digested G. Edward Griffin's, 'THE CREATURE FROM JEKYLL ISLAND', you will never really understand contemporary American and global politics. But afterwards, the political puzzle will come together before your eyes, and never again will you follow the red herring into the brainwashing house of mirrors which is our current political milieu.

If you're inclined to read only one political book, be sure it's this one, as it will make sense of your world like nothing else. 'THE CREATURE FROM JEKYLL ISLAND' belongs in the personal library of every American who truly cares about his or her country (regardless of political party affiliation); by rousing the people of this nation from the ignorance of deep sleep, it has the potential to be the silver bullet or the stake through the heart of America's worst monster! Read it now or the Wolfman's gonna getcha! "

The Progressive Woodrow Wilson is the guy that made this happen. On his deathbed he said he regrets the things he did to our Country.

Did you know a penny prior to 1982 is 95% copper and that penny is worth .03 in melt value? That is the difference between fiat face value, and real world tangible value. 200%

Did you know ANY nickle is worth .07 in melt value? A $2 roll of nickels is worth $2.75. That's a 37% increase due to just raw metal value.

There are a lot of people out there buying Ryedale machines, which separate copper from zinc pennies. They are hoarding copper just like people now hoard silver. There was a time when all coins contained 90% silver. These coins are now worth 22x face value. There will be a time in the future when people look back and remember when copper pennies used to circulate freely.

Services

YouTube - Ryedale Coin Penny Sorter

If the idea of gold or silver scares you, then buy a box of nickels. Or rather, get a box of nickels. Your downside is nil as you get them for face value, but the melt value is an instant 37% return. Of course, the defacing and melt ban will have to be lifted to recognize this gain but look at silver "junk" coinage. They trade at 22x face today.

Portland Mint is selling copper pennies by the ton, presorted. For self sorters, I've heard the average find rate of pre-'82 pennies is about 20%. Keep your coppers and nickels.

Coin Calculators Measuring Metal Value - Coinflation.com

A forum for coin roll hunters:

http://www.realcent.org/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=58284c7b98ed853478f2a2077feca9fc

Not exactly the NYSE, but consider our current situation against the quotes of angry investors in the article.

'Our savings have vanished – we've lost everything' - Asia, World - The Independent

'Our savings have vanished ? we've lost everything'

Angry investors take to streets as Dhaka's stock exchange crashes. Andrew Buncombe reports

Tuesday, 11 January 2011

Police in Bangladesh used tear gas and water canons to disperse angry protests by crowds of small investors after a dramatic free-fall plunge on the country's stock market caused the authorities to suspend trading.

Hundreds of outraged investors took to the streets outside the stock exchange in the Motijheel neighbourhood of the nation's capital after the worst plunge in the country's history saw the Dhaka Stock Exchange (DSE) fall by 660 points, or 9.25 per cent, in less than an hour....

...The problem, say experts, is that the booming stock market had in recent years become deeply overvalued, something that had been ignored as investors enjoyed massive gains. Amid demands that it act to address the situation, the authorities had recently taken a series of steps to limit the percentage of deposits that banks can invest in the market and cool the situation. As a result, many larger, institutional investors decided to withdraw from the market, a move that set off the hysteria.

"This was coming ? it was only a matter of when it would take place," said Mustafizur Rahman of the Centre for Policy Dialogue, a Dhaka-based think-tank. "The market had been heating up for quite a time, particularly over the last year. There was too much money chasing too few shares... This is a correction."

Observers say that many of those taking to the streets yesterday were among more than 3 million new, small-sized investors who had been attracted to the stock market in the last few years. Keen to cash in on the heated-up market, they had placed their money in shares rather than putting it in traditional bank deposits or savings accounts.
Many of these so-called retail investors may have had little investment expertise or knowledge about the companies in which they were putting their money. "They thought this would be a way for them to raise some capital from the markets," said Professor Arindam Banik of Delhi's International Management Institute.

But when the markets started to collapse, countless numbers of smaller investors were left ruing their decision to invest in stocks. "I poured all my money into the Dhaka stock exchange," investor Humayum Kabir, who had lost 60 per cent of his family's 2.5m taka (?22,000) in savings, told the Agence France-Presse. "The finance minister lured us into the stock market, he told us it was safe, but now we have lost everything. They artificially jacked up the prices of junk shares and now our savings have vanished."....

Notice that the problem was panic from un-diversified investors who did not know about investing, chose to invest all their funds in risky stocks over safer traditional methods, and invested in companies they knew nothing about.

That is why good assets in those areas are typically real estate or jewelry. They fluctuate less, hold value more, and are not tied to government vagaries.

Plus the women tend to control the assets more when it is in the form of their jewelry.

TNJed, for those of us who are fiscally illiterate, such as I, your explaination and postings regarding the Fed have been most illuminating. While some may not have the fiscal acuity of others such as you, we have been raised through the depression to save, save, save. From some of what I read, that may all be for nought although I might be misintrepting. Nevertheless, thank you most sincerely for the explainations and your personal insight into our financial mess.

After slowly digesting all the links and other input that TNJed posted (as well as the various paths those led me down)...
I came away Not with the perception that saving-saving-saving is for Naught.

But rather, a strong conviction that it's about a rapidly evolving change in our approach to strategic savings WHAT & HOW: Tangible, sustainable, personally holdable/controllable/tillable, locally plantable/edible/tradeable, and predominantly non-flammable.

That is why good assets in those areas are typically real estate or jewelry. They fluctuate less, hold value more, and are not tied to government vagaries.

Plus the women tend to control the assets more when it is in the form of their jewelry.

1) Tangible!

2) Bee-You-Tee-ful Jull-er-ee
A prime example of this is (Eastern) Indian traditions re: 24K gold jewelry;-)

1) Tangible!

2) Bee-You-Tee-ful Jull-er-ee
A prime example of this is (Eastern) Indian traditions re: 24K gold jewelry;-)

Usually more than 24K and involving precious stones too. ;-)

Canoehead's mom has more bling than most rappers, but she thinks anyone who pays more than $3K for a car is insane.

Usually more than 24K and involving precious stones too. ;-)

Canoehead's mom has more bling than most rappers, but she thinks anyone who pays more than $3K for a car is insane.

Does she live in one of the states that have annual property taxes on vehicles?

In Kansas, fiscally prudent folks do not buy brand NEW vehicles; not only because of the instant off-the-lot value drop... but primarily due to the everlasting high (hundreds per year!) vehicular property taxes.

TNJed, for those of us who are fiscally illiterate, such as I, your explaination and postings regarding the Fed have been most illuminating. While some may not have the fiscal acuity of others such as you, we have been raised through the depression to save, save, save. From some of what I read, that may all be for nought although I might be misintrepting. Nevertheless, thank you most sincerely for the explainations and your personal insight into our financial mess.

Andy, I'm happy you've found some useful information in this thread. Thank you for your kind words. My ideas are far from original so I'd feel remiss to accept any kind of credit. Other forums and sites I participate in, all carry the same stance I do (of course) and it can be an echo chamber at times. In hindsight, I may have started a little strong and should have started in 1st gear. I realize this is coming out of left field for most with nothing better to do than talk finance.

I also realize this is a very personal topic for everyone. And I want to make clear I am in no way a qualified financial adviser. I do wear my heart on my sleeve and give my personal trading convictions. Right place and right time can be two painfully different things. My concentration has been on a macro-view and between now and then, many things can happen. Please use the information I post only to consider and form your own convictions. I believe in order to be confident in your decisions you must believe it to your core and for your own reasons.

I'll probably tone down my comments from here forward as I've said all I really have to say on the subject, but I will continue to stand by my thoughts. Probably just post articles or sites people may find useful. It's an important topic and I only wanted to provide a different angle on things and perhaps spur some constructive dialog.

All this being said, I am very optimistic about what lies ahead. The opportunity we may have to really do things right combined with that great can-do American spirit makes me look forward to a brighter tomorrow.

All the best!

Throw it at me, I'm pretty sure I can handle it. Been through a muck of you know what, came out the other side smelling like something different. ;-)

andy dushawshank

Did you know a penny prior to 1982 is 95% copper and that penny is worth .03 in melt value? That is the difference between fiat face value, and real world tangible value. 200%

Did you know ANY nickle is worth .07 in melt value? A $2 roll of nickels is worth $2.75. That's a 37% increase due to just raw metal value.

There are a lot of people out there buying Ryedale machines, which separate copper from zinc pennies. They are hoarding copper just like people now hoard silver. There was a time when all coins contained 90% silver. These coins are now worth 22x face value. There will be a time in the future when people look back and remember when copper pennies used to circulate freely.

Services

YouTube - Ryedale Coin Penny Sorter

If the idea of gold or silver scares you, then buy a box of nickels. Or rather, get a box of nickels. Your downside is nil as you get them for face value, but the melt value is an instant 37% return. Of course, the defacing and melt ban will have to be lifted to recognize this gain but look at silver "junk" coinage. They trade at 22x face today.

Portland Mint is selling copper pennies by the ton, presorted. For self sorters, I've heard the average find rate of pre-'82 pennies is about 20%. Keep your coppers and nickels.

Coin Calculators Measuring Metal Value - Coinflation.com

A forum for coin roll hunters:

Realcent.org • View forum - Bullion Coins and Metals Investing Forums

How much does it cost to melt down 100 lbs of pennies?

Did you know a penny prior to 1982 is 95% copper and that penny is worth .03 in melt value? That is the difference between fiat face value, and real world tangible value. 200%

Did you know ANY nickle is worth .07 in melt value? A $2 roll of nickels is worth $2.75. That's a 37% increase due to just raw metal value.

There are a lot of people out there buying Ryedale machines, which separate copper from zinc pennies. They are hoarding copper just like people now hoard silver. There was a time when all coins contained 90% silver. These coins are now worth 22x face value. There will be a time in the future when people look back and remember when copper pennies used to circulate freely.

Services

YouTube - Ryedale Coin Penny Sorter

If the idea of gold or silver scares you, then buy a box of nickels. Or rather, get a box of nickels. Your downside is nil as you get them for face value, but the melt value is an instant 37% return. Of course, the defacing and melt ban will have to be lifted to recognize this gain but look at silver "junk" coinage. They trade at 22x face today.

Portland Mint is selling copper pennies by the ton, presorted. For self sorters, I've heard the average find rate of pre-'82 pennies is about 20%. Keep your coppers and nickels.

Coin Calculators Measuring Metal Value - Coinflation.com

A forum for coin roll hunters:

Realcent.org • View forum - Bullion Coins and Metals Investing Forums

Screw melt price, before anyone starts destroying thousands of pennies think of collectors and spend a bit of time and find their true value.

Lincoln Penny Value is Amazing for the Right Coin

Today's Lincoln penny value for common date "wheat" cents dated 1909-1958 start at $1.75 for a roll of 50 coins.
First minted in 1909, itself a desirable coin, the series also includes many other rare and valuable dates. For example, find a 1933-D and its minimum value is $2.50. If you have a 1931-S you are holding a coin worth at least $63.
Additionally, the better the state of preservation of your coins, the more appealing to collectors they become and the more they are willing to pay.
Pictured is a beautiful 1958 Uncirculated Lincoln Penny all collectors would enjoy adding to their collection. Gather and sort your Lincoln pennies and discover their values.
Lincoln Penny Value-What Dealers Pay

The following Lincoln penny value chart shows clearly dealers and collectors pay a premium for better grade coins. If your Wheat Cent is close to a higher grade and the much higher value, absolutely have it graded by either NGC or the PCGS grading service. More information about these services below.
Lincoln Penny Value
1909-1958

Condition of CoinDateGood - GFine - FExtremely Fine
XFUncirculated1909 $1.92 $3.20 $4.38 $12.75 1909 VDB $9.10 $11.00 $12.00 $21.00 1909 S $52.00 $110.00 $182.50 $256.88 1909 S VDB $465 $833 $1,106 $1,463 1910 $0.34 $0.60 $3.07 $16.25 1910 S $10.25 $14.30 $43.00 $97.25 1911 $0.38 $1.19 $4.55 $17.25 1911 D $2.83 $6.18 $47.25 $108.75 1911 S $26.67 $46.15 $60.25 $136.13 1912 $0.92 $1.73 $11.50 $28.50 1912 D $3.88 $8.78 $67.13 $103.50 1912 S $13.33 $21.23 $52.50 $138.75 1913 $0.48 $1.14 $14.50 $25.50 1913 D $1.83 $2.71 $21.00 $89.50 1913 S $7.00 $14.08 $43.25 $108.38 1914 $0.63 $1.84 $14.75 $39.38 1914 D $108.17 $251.33 $637.50 $2,025.00 1914 S $12.83 $21.23 $73.50 $195.38 1915 $1.04 $2.82 $48.25 $75.38 1915 D $1.00 $2.97 $21.75 $56.25 1915 S $11.67 $16.03 $60.00 $142.50 1916 $0.03 $0.81 $5.69 $33.38 1916 D $0.88 $2.65 $16.75 $71.25 1916 S $1.50 $3.20 $21.00 $79.50 1917 $0.03 $0.28 $3.25 $14.25 1917 D $0.74 $2.19 $32.25 $58.75 1917 S $0.31 $1.33 $8.75 $63.75 1918 $0.10 $0.65 $2.82 $11.25 1918 D $0.73 $1.90 $13.69 $73.50 1918 S $0.52 $1.19 $8.75 $93.38 1919 $0.03 $0.87 $1.00 $10.13 1919 D $0.58 $1.04 $12.00 $48.75 1919 S $0.25 $1.19 $3.74 $45.00 1920 $0.03 $0.54 $1.99 $10.88 1920 D $0.76 $1.97 $16.50 $60.00 1920 S $0.50 $1.11 $10.00 $75.00 1921 $0.41 $0.65 $9.25 $35.63 1921 S $1.21 $3.01 $26.25 $95.00 1922 $381 $774 $1,416 RARE 1922 D $11.00 $14.52 $28.25 $105.00 1923 $0.29 $0.54 $4.53 $30.00 1923 S $2.13 $5.32 $29.25 $144.38 1924 $0.03 $0.47 $3.36 $15.38 1924 D $20.83 $38.13 $86.00 $245.00 1924 S $0.93 $2.49 $26.00 $80.63 1925 $0.03 $0.72 $2.38 $8.25 1925 D $0.54 $2.50 $13.88 $57.38 1925 S $0.63 $1.41 $11.00 $78.25 1926 $0.03 $0.36 $1.08 $6.94 1926 D $0.71 $2.55 $13.88 $67.50 1926 S $5.92 $8.45 $27.00 $217.50 1927 $0.03 $0.36 $1.30 $7.13 1927 D $0.77 $1.55 $5.73 $44.00 1927 S $1.00 $2.03 $11.25 $131.25 1928 $0.03 $0.36 $1.02 $6.75 1928 D $0.60 $1.52 $3.47 $43.13 1928 S $0.72 $1.77 $7.43 $52.50 1929 $0.03 $0.56 $2.07 $6.00 1929 D $0.38 $0.95 $4.21 $12.38 1929 S $0.39 $1.40 $4.96 $16.88 1930 $0.05 $0.33 $1.09 $3.75 1930 D $0.28 $0.72 $1.55 $7.13 1930 S $0.19 $0.34 $1.06 $7.50 1931 $0.45 $0.92 $2.73 $14.63 1931 D $2.58 $4.39 $10.00 $33.75 1931 S $63.33 $81.25 $92.08 $149.00 1932 $1.12 $2.11 $4.96 $13.88 1932 D $1.04 $1.63 $3.03 $18.75 1933 $1.04 $1.57 $4.44 $13.88 1933 D $1.59 $3.47 $10.50 $13.88 1934 $0.05 $0.20 $0.65 $5.50 1934 D $0.05 $0.24 $3.34 $32.00 1935 $0.05 $0.15 $0.49 $2.53 1935 D $0.05 $0.24 $0.60 $3.47 1935 S $0.05 $0.34 $1.63 $37.88 1936 $0.05 $0.23 $0.57 $3.71 1936 D $0.05 $0.23 $0.52 $5.06 1936 S $0.05 $0.21 $0.80 $11.25 1937 $0.05 $0.15 $0.63 $4.50 1937 D $0.05 $0.16 $0.42 $4.24 1937 S $0.05 $0.16 $0.46 $4.13 1938 $0.05 $0.15 $0.63 $6.21 1938 D $0.05 $0.26 $0.76 $6.51 1938 S $0.05 $0.24 $0.55 $4.86 1939 $0.05 $0.15 $0.29 $3.00 1939 D $0.16 $0.26 $0.80 $4.65 1939 S $0.13 $0.34 $0.55 $3.24 1940 $0.03 $0.20 $0.29 $3.30 1940 D $0.03 $0.29 $0.50 $3.45 1940 S $0.04 $0.28 $0.42 $4.37 1941 $0.03 $0.20 $0.33 $2.03 1941 D $0.03 $0.26 $0.59 $3.74 1941 S $0.04 $0.29 $0.59 $3.78 1942 $0.03 $0.18 $0.26 $1.62 1942 D $0.03 $0.20 $0.29 $1.81 1942 S $0.04 $0.25 $0.65 $7.03 1943 Zinc $0.10 $0.20 $0.28 $0.95 1943 D Zinc $0.14 $0.23 $0.51 $1.96 1943 S Zinc $0.18 $0.26 $0.50 $3.70 1944 $0.03 $0.03 $0.24 $0.60 1944 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.25 $0.74 1944 S $0.04 $0.04 $0.29 $1.59 1945 $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $1.86 1945 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $1.53 1945 S $0.04 $0.04 $0.29 $1.06 1946 $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.60 1946 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.39 1946 S $0.04 $0.04 $0.29 $1.39 1947 $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $2.64 1947 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.70 1947 S $0.04 $0.04 $0.28 $1.08 1948 $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.78 1948 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $1.20 1948 S $0.04 $0.04 $0.42 $2.02 1949 $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $2.11 1949 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $1.07 1949 S $0.04 $0.04 $0.34 $1.62 1950 $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $1.46 1950 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $1.11 1950 S $0.04 $0.04 $0.05 $0.97 1951 $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $1.36 1951 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.46 1951 S $0.04 $0.04 $0.05 $0.72 1952 $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $2.64 1952 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.44 1952 S $0.04 $0.04 $0.05 $4.10 1953 $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.57 1953 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.26 1953 S $0.04 $0.04 $0.05 $0.54 1954 $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.56 1954 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.34 1954 S $0.04 $0.04 $0.05 $0.34 1955 $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.45 1955 DLB DIE ** ** $1,013 $1,688 1955 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.31 1955 S $0.03 $0.03 $0.15 $0.39 1956 $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.18 1956 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.19 1957 $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.16 1957 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.16 1958 $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.15 1958 D $0.03 $0.03 $0.04 $0.15 Lincoln Penny Value Updated 2010

The above are wholesale coin values. Computed from dealer's price lists with various mark-up factors figured in. They reflect closely what you would expect to receive when selling. Variations in value do occur subject to subtle grading points, collector demands and dealer needs. For more background information, see how value listings in the Coin Value Guide are determined.

I just found this program from July '10 featuring Niall Ferguson and Mort Zuckerman which was moderated by David Gergen, whom I respect more than any other pundit.

Ferguson literally wrote the book on the Rothschild family, so he is more than familiar with all things central bank related. This panel provided some very interesting insights into the complexities we find ourselves in these modern times and it's not too late to turn back from the edge.

It was at the Aspen Ideas Festival and I wish it was more than an hour long! I think the audience wanted more time as well

FORA.tv - The Financial Crisis: Will It Lead to America's Decline?

FYI, I found this in a post on zero hedge | on a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero where I like to shop for ideas ;-)

Gold is nothing but a shiny yellow metal. This is a tulip bulb phase. Gold's industrial worth is probably around $30 per oz... and jewelry demand puts it around $80. the rest is exuberant speculation, that will end in tears.

I don't recall tulip bulbs being guarded in a Mint during the bulb rage.

perhaps you need to live through a full blown depression

The FEDS caused the first Depression and that's exactly where we are headed again, a global depression, IMHO. The world's richest 1% own over 40% of the wealth. Do you think that is just a coincidence? It is the manipulation of the markets and interest rates that have made the rich wealthy. The FEDS are a corrupt Agency manipulated by Bankers and the top 1% of the money in this Country. They are running out of ammunition to boost the economy and bubbles to create.

Notice that the problem was panic from un-diversified investors who did not know about investing, chose to invest all their funds in risky stocks over safer traditional methods, and invested in companies they knew nothing about.

That is why good assets in those areas are typically real estate or jewelry. They fluctuate less, hold value more, and are not tied to government vagaries.

Plus the women tend to control the assets more when it is in the form of their jewelry.

Hmmm....I wonder why sales at Tiffany's have risen so drastically?
Rich Americans Raise Consumer Spending With Little Help From Middle Class - Bloomberg

The FEDS caused the first Depression and that's exactly where we are headed again, a global depression, IMHO. The world's richest 1% own over 40% of the wealth. Do you think that is just a coincidence? It is the manipulation of the markets and interest rates that have made the rich wealthy. The FEDS are a corrupt Agency manipulated by Bankers and the top 1% of the money in this Country. They are running out of ammunition to boost the economy and bubbles to create.

Hmmm....I wonder why sales at Tiffany's have risen so drastically?
Rich Americans Raise Consumer Spending With Little Help From Middle Class - Bloomberg

So this idjet can make a$inine self-justifying
statements about "heavy lifting" to the media.

I'd chip in on a gift certificate for a quality tar-n-feathers facial, redeemable at any one of the high end spas catering to the 1%... they've certainly earned it after all that "heavy lifting".:roll:

?The heavy lifting is being done by the upper-income households,? said Michael Feroli, a former Federal Reserve economist who is now chief U.S. economist at JPMorgan Chase & Co. in New York.

So this idjet can make a$inine self-justifying
statements about "heavy lifting" to the media.

I'd chip in on a gift certificate for a quality tar-n-feathers facial, redeemable at any one of the high end spas catering to the 1%... they've certainly earned it after all that "heavy lifting".:roll:

Yep, their poor fingernails and hands will need some Madge after they finish converting their fiat money to gold earrings, earned through the FEDS making over exuberant statements about the economy.

The FEDS caused the first Depression[/B] and that's exactly where we are headed again, a global depression, IMHO.

You are entitled to your opinion but not your own facts.

Andrew Jackson let the charter for the National Bank to lapse in 1836.

Coincidentally or not, there was a ferocious financial panic in 1837, followed by panics in 1857,1872,1893 and the granddaddy of them all, 1907.

The Federal Reserve was created in 1915 to provide liquidity for the banking system.

The USA was alone among industrialized nations without a national bank.

No credible source I can find blames the Federal Reserve for the Great Depression and I shudder to think had the Federal Reserve not been available to provide liquidity in 2008.

During the last century we have had two financial panics with the Fed compared with five in seventy years without a mechanism to provide liquidity.

You are entitled to your opinion but not your own facts.

Andrew Jackson let the charter for the National Bank to lapse in 1836.

Coincidentally or not, there was a ferocious financial panic in 1837, followed by panics in 1857,1872,1893 and the granddaddy of them all, 1907.

The Federal Reserve was created in 1915 to provide liquidity for the banking system.

The USA was alone among industrialized nations without a national bank.

No credible source I can find blames the Federal Reserve for the Great Depression and I shudder to think had the Federal Reserve not been available to provide liquidity in 2008.

During the last century we have had two financial panics with the Fed compared with five in seventy years without a mechanism to provide liquidity.

AJ let the charter for the Bank of the US to lapse since he knew the Rothchild's Bank would be the forerunner to the Federal Reserve; that it would be destructive and hold too much power and that it would only serve the privileged elite at the expense of the working class. There's plenty online documenting that.

He was right to be worried because following the War of 1812, Congress chartered the Second Bank of the United States (the First Bank?s charter had expired in 1811). Inflation had run rampant during the war, and the Bank was created to stabilize the economy. However the Bank ultimately made matters worse by printing paper money and increasing lending to banks and businesses. This led to a boom of economic prosperity in the late 1810s that crashed with the Panic of 1819.

As far as the Depression we all know and talk about, there's plenty of opinions, including a paper written by Nobel Prize winner Milton Friedman and Anna Jacobson Scwart: A Monetary History of the United States, 1867-1960. They they argued that the Depression was far from inevitable, but brought about by an "inept" Federal Reserve.

I can find hundreds, but here's another one: THE FEDS DEPRESSION AND THE BIRTH OF THE NEW DEAL
Excerpt: "The same Federal Reserve caused the Great Depression when its wise men made a series of cumulative mistakes that contracted the money supply by one-third and wiped out purchasing power in an unprecedented fashion."

One only has to look at the pattern of booms and lending, who made money by scooping up businesses and property at pennies to the dollar, to realize the corruption that having an entity, which isn't even a government agency, connected to Banks with such unyielding power can be wrought.

You shudder to think what would happen without the FEDS now? We wouldn't be in this mess had they not kept rates so low for so long to encourage a lending bubble, and without the FEDS lackeys, like Greenspan, spewing lies about there not being any real estate bubble.