Walton Deputies To Unionize.

It seems to me that the PBA Reps are not listening to their potential constituents. For as many of them are for PBA, there are just as many, if not more opposed (at least at this time). I have yet to get a response showing me where in the State a positive and favorable contract has been approved and passed (excluding corrections).

Is this type of attitude what can be expected should a small majority actually vote in the union? To me, this attitiude seems a bit reminiscent of someone who does not have the interests of the department first, just their own agenda. Just a thought.

w

What do you mean a "positive and favorable contract"? Go to the Northwest Florida Police Benevolent Assocition site and click on "view current ECSO contract". www.nwfpba.org

If the union is voted in....everyone should get involved and vote in reputable reps and board members to protect deputies best interests.

What???

Watcher,
What makes a different how many and who has contracts? As for a small majority voting in a Union, sometimes that is the way it is. It usually starts small, with a potential for growth after that is good. I know the Firefighters have all line personnel except for one and we have quite a few of the Dispatchers though uncertain how many of those we have.

I am posing a simple question that I would hope all those considering a Union would want answered.

What success has the PBA had in its contract negotiations? All I am asking for is a success story to share with the group. Is that too much to ask from a group soliciting the Sheriffs Department for its representation?

Don't you want to see how successful they have been?

Positive

What do you mean a "positive and favorable contract"? Go to the Northwest Florida Police Benevolent Assocition site and click on "view current ECSO contract". www.nwfpba.org

If the union is voted in....everyone should get involved and vote in reputable reps and board members to protect deputies best interests.

Boy, I had no idea this would be so difficult.

Let me rephrase the question:

What other Law Enforcement offices/departments have the FL PBA negotiated a contract for, where the "New" PBA Contract, is better then the "old" non-PBA Contract?

I don't know, so I am asking. I will assume that the ECSO contract is one by PBA, but do members feel it is better then the one they had?

Just curious, what are some of the "best interests" that officers have concerns about? I have heard about some individuals fearing being "let go" due to certain loyalties, but FL is an "at will" employment State, not that it makes it right. I have also heard a little rumbling about Over Time pay. Any others? Can you or someone else elaborate?

well....

Boy, I had no idea this would be so difficult.

Let me rephrase the question:

What other Law Enforcement offices/departments have the FL PBA negotiated a contract for, where the "New" PBA Contract, is better then the "old" non-PBA Contract?

I don't know, so I am asking. I will assume that the ECSO contract is one by PBA, but do members feel it is better then the one they had?

Just curious, what are some of the "best interests" that officers have concerns about? I have heard about some individuals fearing being "let go" due to certain loyalties, but FL is an "at will" employment State, not that it makes it right. I have also heard a little rumbling about Over Time pay. Any others? Can you or someone else elaborate?

I don't know Watcher....all of the agencies that called the PBA (or the FOP, teamsters, IUPA) in did so for some reason. I guess different officers from all over the state could be interviewed for this forum but thats asking for time investment that I don't have. Did you look at Escambia's ontract? Are you a cop? Does it not look better than the "at will" "good ole boy" system we have here?

We feel that the time for rules and regulations to be concrete, even handed discipline, competetive promotions, fair and impartial demotions, pay for time worked, step and merit increases, shift differential pay and job security regardless of politics (and numerous other issues) is now. Most of us are optimistic that the new Sheriff will implement this. However, after twenty eight years of promises, we need to take he initiative to make all of this concrete ourselves.

Sheriff Adkinson will not be Sheriff forever. The next guy to come in may be another tyrant that mishandles money and brings in unqualified personnel and places them in key positions. Working with Sheriff Adkinson, we can see that this never takes place. Every three years we will put it in stone.

Thats not to say that if something comes up and the contract needs to be changed that it can't. The members and the Sheriff would then come up with an amendment called a memorandum of agreement to make the change.

Check out the PBA's quarterly newspaper, Roll Call to read about success stories.

It has been my experience that sometimes it take a while to make a contract great. I can say after each negotiations the FF have had we have improved our contract. Many of the first issues were regarding job security, pay and benefits. It would seem that is not unreasonable. In a State where you are an AT WILL EMPLOYEE without a contract, if you were to have that it seems that would be a SUCCESS over what they have at this time. I know a guy, believe it or not, when he retired did not recieve his Comp Time. I felt that was unfair, this is time he earned. My feeling is if Department of Labor came in we/ taxpayers would be paying a whole lot more than giving these folks a raise and treating them fairly, and this would probably not be a negotiated item, this would be a mandate. These are issues I have heard about from the one retired guy I know and some of the current folks. I realize the tax burden that has been discussed here, but my question is if they are underpaid before do you think the current economy has made it easier or harder on them with the current economic woes with what they make.With the properties I own and the taxes that I pay, I would not have minded that my taxes had stayed the same as last year so that our employees could have recieved more that what they got. Have a good evening, GO GATORS
Bob

taxes

If we prioritize the spending at the SO, the budget would not have to be increased significantly...if AT ALL! The are spending habits that need to be changed and we can get the merit pay and step increases.

So now the truth is a "Gotcha Game", amazingly no where in your post did I see you deny making this statement.

And why do you continue to bring up Mr. Adkinson and previous employers that had PBA contracts? That has no bearing on the issues at hand. And please explain exactly how you give some of these contract benefits back. Its my understanding that regardless of whether you wanted the PBA or not you are stuck with what ever they (PBA) gets you in the contract, if its voted in.

And your accusation that I am cozying up to the administration simply because I don?t see things as you do is APPALLING.

Since you so knowledgeable in the PBA, please explain how "WE" fire a particular rep. If it comes to life that we do get PBA collective bargaining, I have a real problem with you representing my best interest... And from the looks of other post on here, I don?t think I'm alone in that.

Well, forunately for me and all the other Reps, you can't fire me, I work for the State PBA, because I believe if you had that abililty, all of us would be unemployed. As far as you having a real problem with me, you would have a real problem with whoever the representative is. Since I don't know your name and you use the alias LEO101, I don't think you have to worry about it anyway, if there was a conflict between you and I, then another Staff Representative would represent you.
LEO101, you tend to talk in circles, and instead of talking about substances you try to mislead and talk to points that have no real bearing on a contract.
and I do think that you are cozying up with the new administration, it is pretty obvious by your post. I know you are not alone, there is about 10 others from what I'm being told internally.
Have and nice day. Be safe out there and vote PBA!!!

Another reason....

When a shift is short, the department WILL NOT call someone in on overtime. So you either have to work sick or the citizens go without police protection.:shock:

Think I'm exagerating? My off day was just cancelled because TWO others are already off. I'm not sick this time at least. I had taken the day to assist a sick family member. It was a earned holiday anyway, so I was just going to take it.

Geez.......

When a shift is short, the department WILL NOT call someone in on overtime. So you either have to work sick or the citizens go without police protection.:shock:

Think I'm exagerating? My off day was just cancelled because TWO others are already off. I'm not sick this time at least. I had taken the day to assist a sick family member. It was a earned holiday anyway, so I was just going to take it.

Geez.......

Don't mind me folks....I'm just venting.....

They do call you in

When a shift is short, the department WILL NOT call someone in on overtime. So you either have to work sick or the citizens go without police protection.:shock:

and than you get comp time that you never get to take. That is if they even mark it done on your pay statement.

I agree with your point

I don't know Watcher....all of the agencies that called the PBA (or the FOP, teamsters, IUPA) in did so for some reason. I guess different officers from all over the state could be interviewed for this forum but thats asking for time investment that I don't have. Did you look at Escambia's ontract? Are you a cop? Does it not look better than the "at will" "good ole boy" system we have here?

We feel that the time for rules and regulations to be concrete, even handed discipline, competetive promotions, fair and impartial demotions, pay for time worked, step and merit increases, shift differential pay and job security regardless of politics (and numerous other issues) is now. Most of us are optimistic that the new Sheriff will implement this. However, after twenty eight years of promises, we need to take he initiative to make all of this concrete ourselves.

Sheriff Adkinson will not be Sheriff forever. The next guy to come in may be another tyrant that mishandles money and brings in unqualified personnel and places them in key positions. Working with Sheriff Adkinson, we can see that this never takes place. Every three years we will put it in stone.

Thats not to say that if something comes up and the contract needs to be changed that it can't. The members and the Sheriff would then come up with an amendment called a memorandum of agreement to make the change.

I do agree with your points however, I do not agree with the timing. This whole thing was created in order to protect a few of RJ's stooges and to make things difficult for Mike. Why can't the departement wait about 6 months and let Mike take control and steady the ship? PBA will still be there like little lap dogs waiting to welcome you on board. I am just having difficulty with how no one seems to care about the suspicious timing of this whole thing?

Where were all you Pro-Union guys/gals back one year ago? You know damn well that had you been so bold then, you'd be fired by RJ, just like anyone else who opposed him or had any commonsense. And before you say "you have just proven my point", all I am saying is question the timing of the circumstances, it stinks. Give Mikes administration a chance, or if you feel like you cannot give them a chance, please advise specifically why. Thanks.

Yup

When a shift is short, the department WILL NOT call someone in on overtime. So you either have to work sick or the citizens go without police protection.:shock:

Think I'm exagerating? My off day was just cancelled because TWO others are already off. I'm not sick this time at least. I had taken the day to assist a sick family member. It was a earned holiday anyway, so I was just going to take it.

Geez.......

This is a common practice. This is also a very good reason to have representation. BUT, I ask, why not let Mike have his fair shake at it. Has anyone addressed this specific set of circumstances with him? Think before you act, once it is done, it is very, very hard to undo.

Morale Building

Well, forunately for me and all the other Reps, you can't fire me, I work for the State PBA, because I believe if you had that abililty, all of us would be unemployed. As far as you having a real problem with me, you would have a real problem with whoever the representative is. Since I don't know your name and you use the alias LEO101, I don't think you have to worry about it anyway, if there was a conflict between you and I, then another Staff Representative would represent you.
LEO101, you tend to talk in circles, and instead of talking about substances you try to mislead and talk to points that have no real bearing on a contract.
and I do think that you are cozying up with the new administration, it is pretty obvious by your post. I know you are not alone, there is about 10 others from what I'm being told internally.
Have and nice day. Be safe out there and vote PBA!!!

Great way to build morale in the department. Pit the "10 others" opposed against the alleged majority that is for. Great work, as if WCSO does not already have its own problems. You need to really do a little research on one of your internal mouth pieces, what is his motive for bringing you guys in? He's been an LEO for almost 20 years and just suddenly he needs PBA representation? Maybe its because he knows something is coming down the pike and he'll need that prepaid legal...

PBA Rep, again, you have not listened to several people asking you and your organization to assess the current situation. If you have done your research into those (the original clic who started) who bang your drum, then I question your decision to not understand both sides of the issue. If you have not done your homework, please do so before it looks bad for all involved.

Again, if you remove your emotion from reading this post, as you tend to get very PBA defensive (which I understand, it is your job), you will read that I support PBA and FOP. I am for officers being protected, represented and to have an unified voice. I just question the TIMING. Where was the PBA one or two years ago? Really, where were you guys and why did you come now as opposed to then? Answer:

Ralph Johnson lost the election. Ralph Johnson cannot let go of his little fifedom. Ralph Johnson (directly or indirectly) asked PBA to come in for the purposes of making the Sheriff Elect's life miserable. (Now, I am not saying the you in the PBA had direct knowledge of this intent, but it is real, just talk to those who have been involved in this County for a while, not a few weeks).

Timing is everything.

I can't speak for everyone, but as a resident and taxpayer I would certainly like to know of any issues such as those mentioned in this thread - staff working sick due to lack of available employees, taking cars home because they might have to answer a call off duty, what is needed and unneeded spending, etc.

Wouldn't need a union to fix staffing and pay issues if you have public opinion on your side. For example, the proposed $100 per month charge for squad cars went away rather quickly once it hit Sowal and then made the front page of the Sun.

I can't speak for everyone, but as a resident and taxpayer I would certainly like to know of any issues such as those mentioned in this thread - staff working sick due to lack of available employees, taking cars home because they might have to answer a call off duty, what is needed and unneeded spending, etc.

Wouldn't need a union to fix staffing and pay issues if you have public opinion on your side. For example, the proposed $100 per month charge for squad cars went away rather quickly once it hit Sowal and then made the front page of the Sun.

Sounds like we need a little government in the sunshine.

Watcher, your right, lets go ahead and let Mike do what he wants.(sarcasm) Forget the fact that the primary reason is job security. You have said you support the idea, but obviously only after Mike is allowed to do what he wants. Your belief that the timimg stinks and one of the only reasons it is coming now is to "protect a few of RJ's stooges". Well you do realize that a lot of Deputies were hired under RJ. Would all those deputies be considered RJ's stooges. The politics for the rank and file deputies and supervisors must end. I have always wondered why they have never started a Union before; but in the end it goes to the divide the leaders/ Sheriff and managment, has always been able to place within the rank and file. Its not any different now, there are those who supported MA and those who supported others. MA has the opportunity to place his managers, top 3, 4 or 5 folks, to make the changes he wants to make. Those Supervisors and Deputies should be allowed to continue at their current position. I've heard from deputies who oppse the Union because THEY believe THEY have current supervisors who are supervising them that THEY believe are not qualified for their position, other than this reason these deputies have said they supports the idea of a Union. I have also had Deputies who are supportive of the Union and have the same beef with the supervisor issue, but will vote yes because in the end it is the right way to go. I agree changes need to be made within the WCSO and MA has the opportunity to make those changes in the way the department is operated. As for oversite by the Sun or NWF Daily news, or the PUBLIC as a whole, think about the opposition to what is right or wrong and the difference of opinions here on SOWAL. Come on these folks need our support. Support them, let THEM have their say, yes or no, IT WILL BE THEIR DECISION. I for one will support them either way.

Scooter, I think it was either here or somewhere else, but RJ supposedly found out that if he charge Deputies $100 that all the money would have to be turned over to the Board of County Commissioners general fund. I did not see that in any newspaper, did you?

I don't read the newspaper that closely, so I couldn't tell you if they followed up OR if the reason RJ found out he couldn't keep that money was because of the publicity.

Either way, IMO the best way to deal w/ financial issues and employment problems is with transparency and clarity, not by adding more bureaucracy and complications to the process - especially when we just elected someone to bring reform to the department.

Yes, the general public disagrees on many issues, but the majority fall back on basic common sense when dealing with local issues of safety and wasting their $ come into the equation.

Where is the added bureaucracy and complications. As for the rest, I long for Utopia, also.

Where is the added bureaucracy and complications. As for the rest, I long for Utopia, also.

Read the posts on this thread. Unionizing isn't exactly showing itself as a simple solution or a streamliner of the process, but as yet another web of rules, regulations, and politics. :roll:

Read the posts on this thread. Unionizing isn't exactly showing itself as a simple solution or a streamliner of the process, but as yet another web of rules, regulations, and politics. :roll:

You said a mouthful there scooter. If anyone doe not believe you, they might take a look at the big three automakers.

:rofl: OK, that one is funny Idle, comparing the Big 3 auto makers to a public service union. Its amazing that you would or could compare Cops, Firefighters, Teachers, Paramedics and the rest of those employees serving your needs in the county, to car builders.

I am sure that it is all the Unions Faults for the big 3 auto makers woes. I can just about assure you that other than having the ability to strike, they sat in negotiation with their employer and the employers pay what is negotiated. Just so you are aware, employment and benefits are down and when you take a look at the number of jobs that have been shipped overseas, I can't even find underwear made in the US. I'll bet AIG and the current Wall Street bailout is due to employees failing to do their jobs correctly. I'm sure those Big Wigs in AIG appreciate any and all money they are using for their trips and these great resorts.

County employees got $700 dollars for a pay raise this year. I believe you have issue with increase in taxes with the current climate, but think of the service these folks are supplying and they are struggling maybe even more because they were underpaid for the most part. WCSO is a really good example, as reported in SoWal, it has been 2 or 3 years since the Deputies recieved their last pay increase. I saved a $100 in taxes over last year on my residence, thats is what, a little over $8 dollars a month. They could have kept that and given those employees a pay raise.

I saved more money by giving up tobacco.

Deregulation is one of the biggest causes for the woes of our country.

As far as unions go.... They protect the employee. Plain and simple.

The timing is great! Why would they wait to start the union. If Mike treats the guys good and in four years is replaced by a quack, then what? Start the union then? The cart would be far ahead of the horse.

Guys and gals, make up your own mind! Do not let the feelings of those here or your superiors sway your decision. I am protected by a UNION and I love it. Our UNION is bringing our guys together. Our department is getting better on a daily basis. I can say that your problems will not be solved over night but the fight is so worth it! Unions do away with the GOBC (good ole boys club) and enforce rules equally across the board.

You said a mouthful there scooter. If anyone doe not believe you, they might take a look at the big three automakers.

They've been turning out great cars the last few years. I've seen more and more people driving ford in particular. Thats UNION MADE baby!

Every business, union shop or not, gov't or not, is suffering right now in this failed economy.

I'm not so sure more bailouts are the answer....no one's bailing out the small business men and women across this nation. There's no "G" men knocking at my door with an offer to pay MY rent or mortgage.

How many government bail outs do you think our farmers see during a drought or when their crops freeze? This whole thing stinks...big government helping big business while the tax payers pay the tab....;-)