County removing articles from beach?

Crap left on the beach may stay on the beach because of this dumbarse decision, but crap left on the beach that "walks" over to the TDC trash cans or leans against them will still get picked up. ;-)

P.S. What is up w/ people losing their undies lately? Just this week you've found a bra on the beach, someone found a thong, and I saw boxers next to the bike path!

First off, let me give you a big THANK YOU for picking up all that crap! That is such a shame that people can leave ANYTHING on the beach much less what you picked up. When we used to vacation on Holiday Isle in Destin I would pick up bags of trash and crap. It just baffles me as to how people can trash. I am anxious to hear more about the "new rule."

G

My thought on the issue is that it is always good to pick up trash left on the beach. I use the definition of trash very loosely to include most crap left on the beach overnight. I have never heard of people needing some law to protect their freedom of removing trash from public places.

Allifunn, thanks for keeping our beaches looking more clean than you found them!

What should be left on the beach? | beach, left, rosa - News - Northwest Florida Daily News

SANTA ROSA BEACH — Walton County's Leave No Trace ordinance, which regulates what can be left on the beach and what will be picked up and thrown away, has been put on hold while it is reviewed.


Tracy Louthain, director of public relations for the Beaches of South Walton Tourist Development Council, said TDC officials received word May 22 from County Attorney Mike Burke to "hold off and not remove any more items" from the beach until the ordinance could be refined.


Sonny Mares, executive director of the TDC, said the beach ordinance is "extremely important," but that it should be fair to both environmentalists who are concerned that items left out overnight interfere with sea turtle nesting, as well as to beachgoers.
Beachgoers should be given a reasonable explanation why they cannot leave their items on the beach overnight and have adequate time to remove their belongings before they are thrown away, Mares said.


The central issue is tagging, he added.


Under former Sheriff Ralph Johnson, deputies would tag items left on the beach with a message saying that the owners had 24 hours to remove them.


"If they weren't (removed), our beach crews were instructed to pick them up," Louthain said. And "anything left near public beach walkovers were removed, whether they were tagged or not."


But Sheriff Mike Adkinson, who took over in January, discontinued that practice because he said deputies should not be involved in code enforcement. Since tagging ended, any items left overnight at any of the eight regional beach accesses and public walkovers have been collected and thrown away with no prior warning.


"From my understanding, the county commissioners had concerns that the tagging part of the program wasn't being implemented and wanted the agencies to look at the process and how the tagging element could be put back into place," Louthain said. "We really don't want to throw people's stuff away."


TDC members and county officials, including code enforcement officers, county administrator Ronnie Bell and Burke, are working on an ordinance that addresses questions such as which items can be left on the beach and how much time owners should be given to retrieve them before they are thrown away.


Meanwhile, the TDC will continue to distribute flyers and brochures that ask people to take their items with them when they leave the beach.

The sea turtle issue is not and should not be the only concern. High winds and storms occure frequently, and without schedule, in the area, and turn people's unattended belongings into projectile beach gear. It is a safety hazard to person and property, and could expose a liability risk for someone.

The sea turtle issue is not and should not be the only concern. High winds and storms occure frequently, and without schedule, in the area, and turn people's unattended belongings into projectile beach gear. It is a safety hazard to person and property, and could expose a liability risk for someone.

Unless you know who leaves their stuff on the beach and can prove it, the only liability is yours as you will be paying for the damage/ injury.

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"Beachgoers should be given a reasonable explanation why they cannot leave their items on the beach overnight and have adequate time to remove their belongings before they are thrown away, Mares said." - Sonny Mares, executive director of the TDC

Tell them it affects turtle nesting, creates a potential hazard if storms brew up, looks trashy and encourages others to think it is OK so they leave their stuff overnight also. They should already know this anyway. It is a matter of not caring and being lazy. imo

Is this not a "reasonable explanation"?

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I wish someone would give a "reasonable explanation" for why anyone would think they can leave their stuff on the beach?

Where else in the world can you put up a tent; leave it, and expect it to be there when you come back?

what mind set says I can leave my chairs here until I need them again, or not?

and the litter issue: there is no reasonable explanation for that!

I wish someone would give a "reasonable explanation" for why anyone would think they can leave their stuff on the beach?

Where else in the world can you put up a tent; leave it, and expect it to be there when you come back?

what mind set says I can leave my chairs here until I need them again, or not?

and the litter issue: there is no reasonable explanation for that!

On the property that I own.

In your post please insert the words "my property" everywhere you use the word "Beach".
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interested girl,
If I am walking down the beach ("your property") and I am injured because I didn't see the beach chair you left out on the beach ("your property"), and I tripped over it, causing the baby I'm holding to fall out of my hands, and thus hitting his head on your beach volleyball post, and dying from head injury, are you going to pay for my damages or fight like hell, saying that it is public?

I wish someone would give a "reasonable explanation" for why anyone would think they can leave their stuff on the beach?

Where else in the world can you put up a tent; leave it, and expect it to be there when you come back?

I have a pond behind my house, so far the TDC has yet to remove my tent.

interested girl,
If I am walking down the beach ("your property") and I am injured because I didn't see the beach chair you left out on the beach ("your property"), and I tripped over it, causing the baby I'm holding to fall out of my hands, and thus hitting his head on your beach volleyball post, and dying from head injury, are you going to pay for my damages or fight like hell, saying that it is public?

Damages come from negligence, I would be fighting to show that you were the negligent one for walking in the sand and holding a baby, while approaching my clearly visible hazard on my private property.

In Florida private property no longer has to be marked to show trespassing.

Good luck with that one. On a dark night, hazards are not clearly visible. Many cases have been won by the victim, even when trespassing on property fenced off with warning signs. Damage in this case would come from negligence, and my attorneys would be showing your negligence in leaving hazards on the beach which the public has been using for a long time.

To get to the beach I MUST walk past at least 3 large signs telling me that I cannot leave items on the beach overnight. One is basic beach rules. One is all about turtles nesting. One is ONLY telling me that I can't leave items on the beach.

To leave the beach I MUST walk past 2 signs WHOSE ONLY PURPOSE is to tell me I cannot leave items on the beach or they will be discarded. One is mounted above a trash can.

This is at a relatively hidden neighborhood access w/ no parking, bathroom, etc. just a path, stairs, and signs (that keep multiplying due to lawyers and apparently epidemic stupidity).

At what point have myself and other beachgoers not been informed 1) that they cannot leave items on the beach overnight 2) the reason why?

I posit that anyone who does not know these 2 facts is so stupid that they couldn't find the beach, let alone their arse w/ both hands!

There will be yet another county meeting Friday about beach clean-up. They hope to have those legal issues satisfied and it is my understanding the beach will be cleaned up but they are going to discuss strategy. Consistency will also be an issue.

Good luck with that one. On a dark night, hazards are not clearly visible. Many cases have been won by the victim, even when trespassing on property fenced off with warning signs. Damage in this case would come from negligence, and my attorneys would be showing your negligence in leaving hazards on the beach which the public has been using for a long time.

And you believe you have no 'personal responsibility' for stumbling around in the dark on a sandy beach?

To get to the beach I MUST walk past at least 3 large signs telling me that I cannot leave items on the beach overnight. One is basic beach rules. One is all about turtles nesting. One is ONLY telling me that I can't leave items on the beach.

To leave the beach I MUST walk past 2 signs WHOSE ONLY PURPOSE is to tell me I cannot leave items on the beach or they will be discarded. One is mounted above a trash can.

This is at a relatively hidden neighborhood access w/ no parking, bathroom, etc. just a path, stairs, and signs (that keep multiplying due to lawyers and apparently epidemic stupidity).

At what point have myself and other beachgoers not been informed 1) that they cannot leave items on the beach overnight 2) the reason why?

I posit that anyone who does not know these 2 facts is so stupid that they couldn't find the beach, let alone their arse w/ both hands!

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated....


...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.



Them silly amendments keep getting in the way of emotional rule. Darn it all.

I've got your consistency right here:

Items left on the beach overnight will be discarded.

No exceptions, no tags, no warnings, no whining.

Any "private" landowner who does not comply is in violation of the Federal Endangered Species Act of 1973 and the Chapter 370.12 Florida Statutes "Marine Turtle Protection Act" and may be subject to prosecution and fines by both the Florida Department of Environmental Protection and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services with fines up to $10,000.

The signs are already up, the statutes/fines are already there, the jurisdictions and review process for any permanent structures in that zone already exist, and common sense in on our side.

All Walton County has to do is put on their big girl panties and enforce it.

I've got your consistency right here:

Items left on the beach overnight will be discarded.

No exceptions, no tags, no warnings, no whining.

Any "private" landowner who does not comply is in violation of the Federal Endangered Species Act of 1973 and the Chapter 370.12 Florida Statutes "Marine Turtle Protection Act" and may be subject to prosecution and fines by both the Florida Department of Environmental Protection and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services with fines up to $10,000.

The signs are already up, the statutes/fines are already there, the jurisdictions and review process for any permanent structures in that zone already exist, and common sense in on our side.

All Walton County has to do is put on their big girl panties and enforce it.

So glad that those guys that went to school for years and years and have actually studied law are advising the county on this one.

This is at a relatively hidden neighborhood access w/ no parking, bathroom, etc. just a path, stairs, and signs (that keep multiplying due to lawyers and apparently epidemic stupidity).

Scoot, I think you are having trouble understanding this because you do in fact use a public access, albeit a relatively hidden one. The public access I use is also relatively hidden, but it is used mostly by locals. Right next to it, on both the east and west, are private walkovers built by the adjoining condo complexes. The majority of people on "my" beach (no, not claiming ownership, a figure of speech only!) are short term renters from the condos. They don't use the public walkover, they use the condo walkovers, and there are no signs of any kind on those walkovers. Nada, zilch. Nothing about the flags, nothing about rules, turtles, or anything else. If you wander the beach you will realize that the private walkovers, whether for single family or multi family properties, vastly outnumber the public walkovers, and most of them have no signs.
The vacation rental market is going to have to step up and educate their guests, and that ain't happening.

I've got your consistency right here:

Chapter 370.12 Florida Statutes "Marine Turtle Protection Act"

I am unable to locate this Statute through the Online Sunshine web page. Probably repealed or not signed due to its lack of constitutionality on its face.


I did find this:

FS 379.2431

[SIZE=-1](c) As used in this subsection, the following phrases have the following meanings: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]1. A "properly accredited person" is: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]a. Students of colleges or universities whose studies with saltwater animals are under the direction of their teacher or professor; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]b. Scientific or technical faculty of public or private colleges or universities; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]c. Scientific or technical employees of private research institutions and consulting firms; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]d. Scientific or technical employees of city, county, state, or federal research or regulatory agencies; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]e. Members in good standing or recognized and properly chartered conservation organizations, the Audubon Society, or the Sierra Club; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]f. Persons affiliated with aquarium facilities or museums, or contracted as an agent therefor, which are open to the public with or without an admission fee; or [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]g. Persons without specific affiliations listed above, but who are recognized by the commission for their contributions to marine conservation such as scientific or technical publications, or through a history of cooperation with the commission in conservation programs such as turtle nesting surveys, or through advanced educational programs such as high school marine science centers.
[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]Which seems to say that the Sea Turtle people do not have to be anything special other than have a High School Marine Science class to move turtle nests. Sort of defeats the sole source provision of the $80K contract we are paying to the Turtle Watch volunteers. Now to get that contract from the TDC. Thanks.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=-1]And unless the Fed can show that leaving stuff on my property is going to have an adverse affect on interstate commerce, they have no Constitutional power to impose any regulations.
[/SIZE]

The vacation rental market is going to have to step up and educate their guests, and that ain't happening.

Now that is a great idea. Yirtle the Turtle can not find a place to put her eggs because of the stuff on the beach. Maybe 30A Television can do some spots and we can start putting them up on various community web sites.

I understand that there may not be signage at every private access (which is dumb if they rent it out IMO), but they are still given that information in pamphlets, the free newspaper, in displays in local businesses, in TV ads..........

Frankly, I don't understand why we have to bend over backwards to inform people of something they should have learned in kindegarten - pick up after yourself!

WR - dunno why you can't find it, I was sent information repeatedly referencing that statute by the FDEP within the last couple of months.

[SIZE=-1]Which seems to say that the Sea Turtle people do not have to be anything special other than have a High School Marine Science class to move turtle nests. Sort of defeats the sole source provision of the $80K contract we are paying to the Turtle Watch volunteers. Now to get that contract from the TDC. Thanks.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]

If you were to get approved by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission (FWC) and the US Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) to be a marine turtle permit holder FOR WALTON COUNTY; be willing to check all 20 miles of beaches every morning come rain, sun, sleet, hail by 9am from May 1 through October 31st (on foot vehicles are not used); move nests at all hours of the night; be responsible for having someone on site during turtle hatching periods, strandings and necropsies; serve on the TDC's Beach Management Committee and attend their meetings; perform beach clearing at all TDC beach access construction sites when neccesary; submit all state and federal documentation; and do everything else that the FWC and USFWS requires them to do for less than $80,000, then the TDC would sure like to hear about it.

As I told you in a PM, per USFWS and FWC there is currently only one turtle permit holder for Walton County but feel free to get yours and come in lower than $80k.

interested girl,
If I am walking down the beach ("your property") and I am injured because I didn't see the beach chair you left out on the beach ("your property"), and I tripped over it, causing the baby I'm holding to fall out of my hands, and thus hitting his head on your beach volleyball post, and dying from head injury, are you going to pay for my damages or fight like hell, saying that it is public?

I believe in personsl responsibility and have sufficient liability insurance. I also believe that in the scenario you describe I would prevail in court. I am now held liable for injuries sustained on my property if found negligent.

Believe what you want, but I have no intention of ever saying I should not be held liable for negligence because you were on public land. Your feet better be wet or you are on private property without consent.
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