High School Test Scores

All good points as usual SGB and Mark!

I know teachers and administrators read this message board, and I want them to remember that while we want to see improvements in our schools, it does not mean that we are looking to criticize all the time- we just expect excellence for our kids and want to help get us there.

You're right jdarg, I would hate for anyone to think that we're looking to criticize all the time. To get change for the better you have to recognize what's not working, so often, that's the focus. I can honestly say that I have been very impressed with all the teachers my child had in 9th grade. And I've been very impressed with many of the other teachers I've met. Excellence in the schools will need to involve all of us working together to get there. The parents only know a small slice of information. The teachers know a huge slice of the information and really are the key.

Since we are looking at the average test scores for SAT in Walton County, why are you showing us top-ranked college entrance requirements? Shouldn't we be looking at scores of acceptance for schools such as the ones a Walton County student might attend, like FSU, UF, UCF, UofM, etc? I'd bet that less than one percent of people who take the SAT go to all of those schools you listed, so if you want to use them as a reference grade, you should probably take only the highest SAT score for all of Walton County to see if they would be accepted on score alone. Just my $.03

I posted those schools due to the statement made by beachmouse:

As for the percent meeting standards in 10th grade reading, this year's FCAT had 61% listed, which is still not ideal but not too far from what are seen as the good general enrollment high schools in the Panhandle that have students that regularly send kids to Ivies (Gulf Breeze, Niceville, Navarre)

One of our sons attended Duke and I can assure you that an SAT score of 1490 would not have gotten him there. He worked hard, and we set a high level of expectation.

Please see that the ACT scores for surrounding schools are substantially higher than the average of 19.8 in WCSD. I served on a school board and can only say that it will take many years to change those averages under any school board or administration. It will take a unified will of parents, teachers and mentors to raise the level of expectation and results.

We need to have a stable, predictable revenue source for education in Florida. The legislature in Florida does not seem to have the political will to fix a definite problem - widely fluctuating, unpredictable revenue sources.

Just my .02 cents worth.

We have some really great parents here-

parents of incoming freshman jumped in and worked their tails off during our project with the juniors this past spring. They didn't have any kids at SWHS yet, but they saw the importance of preparation for the future beginning in 9th grade. They should all get giant gold stars.

My son graduated from SWHS and was there from the day it opened. During that time he was there with 2 different principals and 1 vice principal. His teachers were excellent and seemed to excel. I was impressed with SWHS and they have improved every year.

I posted those schools due to the statement made by beachmouse:

As for the percent meeting standards in 10th grade reading, this year's FCAT had 61% listed, which is still not ideal but not too far from what are seen as the good general enrollment high schools in the Panhandle that have students that regularly send kids to Ivies (Gulf Breeze, Niceville, Navarre)

One of our sons attended Duke and I can assure you that an SAT score of 1490 would not have gotten him there. He worked hard, and we set a high level of expectation.

The point being that some of the good reputation schools that do routinely have students who throw out good test numbers on the good pointy end of the bell curve aren't that different than SWHS on the metric that the very first post brought up.

And while averages present one aspect of a school, it's also helpful to know medians and general distributions of scores because there are frequently groups that will skew a simple average one way or another and may lead to conclusions that don't reflect a population as a whole, or fail to recognize a successful subgroup (example here- kids that take X number of AP classes) within the big group.

Since we are looking at the average test scores for SAT in Walton County, why are you showing us top-ranked college entrance requirements? Shouldn't we be looking at scores of acceptance for schools such as the ones a Walton County student might attend, like FSU, UF, UCF, UofM, etc? I'd bet that less than one percent of people who take the SAT go to all of those schools you listed, so if you want to use them as a reference grade, you should probably take only the highest SAT score for all of Walton County to see if they would be accepted on score alone. Just my $.03

I assume they posted those schools because that's where they want their kids to go - nothing wrong w/ aiming high, though I doubt a Walton student would get a good enough education to be competitive at one of those schools. They'd need a great deal of supplemental education and parental involvement.

Anyone getting into the schools posted would be in the top 1% of their class, so like you said, the average SAT score isn't a good indicator.

i assume they posted those schools because that's where they want their kids to go - nothing wrong w/ aiming high, though i doubt a walton student would get a good enough education to be competitive at one of those schools. They'd need a great deal of supplemental education and parental involvement.

Anyone getting into the schools posted would be in the top 1% of their class, so like you said, the average sat score isn't a good indicator.

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These are the lowest levels of data available from Fla DOE

I assume they posted those schools because that's where they want their kids to go - nothing wrong w/ aiming high, though I doubt a Walton student would get a good enough education to be competitive at one of those schools. They'd need a great deal of supplemental education and parental involvement.

Or got at least a 3 on a reasonable number of AP classes and wrote an interesting enough essay about their volunteer time spent with South Walton Turtle Watch and how that's inspired them to be a marine biologist.

The national elites want grades and test scores, but they're also big on bringing in a diverse freshman class that consists of students that are passionate about Something. The kid doing the best they can in a small town that may not have a ton of flashy opportunities stands out in the pile a lot more than the interchangable kids with excellent grades and tests from the same upper middle class suburban schools the school gets 10+ applications from every year.

A good 'Overcoming Obstacles' narrative makes an admissions office wet their pants in exctiement.

I am talking about the basic education a student gets at a Walton County school - I just don't think it is a strong enough base to make them academically competitive at MIT, Harvard, etc.

Yes, grades and test scores are just one part of the admission process, but the TYPICAL applicant to these schools is not only an exceptional student w/ high test scores, they also volunteer, are a varsity athlete (usually a captain and in multiple sports), participate in a variety of extracurriculars, have 4s or 5s on AP exams, have been mainly in AP/accelerated classes, speak a 2nd language, and play a musical instrument/choir/drama. Most applicants to those schools are limiting their list of extracurriculars and honors to one page.

Things like Turtle Watch, interning at the Rep etc. can make them more interesting, but it only goes so far as most of their competition is doing the same thing.

I am talking about the basic education a student gets at a Walton County school - I just don't think it is a strong enough base to make them academically competitive at MIT, Harvard, etc.

Yes, grades and test scores are just one part of the admission process, but the TYPICAL applicant to these schools is not only an exceptional student w/ high test scores, they also volunteer, are a varsity athlete (usually a captain and in multiple sports), participate in a variety of extracurriculars, have 4s or 5s on AP exams, have been mainly in AP/accelerated classes, speak a 2nd language, and play a musical instrument/choir/drama. Most applicants to those schools are limiting their list of extracurriculars and honors to one page.

Things like Turtle Watch, interning at the Rep etc. can make them more interesting, but it only goes so far as most of their competition is doing the same thing.

I find these statements profound. I honestly have no idea where my three children will end up in their college decision. Bottom line, I want them to have the best possible education. I know college planning starts happening in middle school here. It's nothing too serious, but the guidance counselors start encouraging some focus. My husband and I will be there every step of the way with our kids and we do expect some sort of secondary education or training. I want to know our school environment sets high expectations for those who can achieve it (and my assumption is most can).

It is true that we would be moving to Santa Rosa Beach for the lifestyle it offers. I think a previous post was correct in pointing out that some people considering moving there are doing so for lifestyle choices rather than necessity. Education reaches deep within the community.

Again, to know that board members read these posts and engage with us is incredible. I have never felt board members were accessible here. It's a huge plus. Communication is the key to progress. Just knowing I can reach out to receptive ears is HUGE!

And, back to my point. What concrete actions are being taken to resolve this? I understand some scheduling changes are taking place with hopes of a positive outcome. What about the principle and teachers of SWHS? Do they view this as a serious challenge and what are they going to do about it?

Here in Georgia, funding (including teacher bonuses) is dispersed based on student achievement. Anything like that in Florida or Walton County? IMO competition/challenge usually leads to better performance.

I'm just curious, have any kids ever graduated from SWHS and gone to an Ivy?

Don't know, but I graduated from Freeport 28 years ago and hit a 29 on my ACT, first try.

I am not as gung-ho over the seven-period day as I was before my son began working...but that is just because we are trying to reach compromises to allow academics to come first, but still maintain a job and varsity athletics. Things aren't as simple as they used to be - but at least we are no longer dealing with a teenager with idle time!

Don't know, but I graduated from Freeport 28 years ago and hit a 29 on my ACT, first try.

I am not as gung-ho over the seven-period day as I was before my son began working...but that is just because we are trying to reach compromises to allow academics to come first, but still maintain a job and varsity athletics. Things aren't as simple as they used to be - but at least we are no longer dealing with a teenager with idle time!

The timing will work out- remember, we all had 7 period days, sports, jobs, and a social life- and we all survived!;-)

I am talking about the basic education a student gets at a Walton County school - I just don't think it is a strong enough base to make them academically competitive at MIT, Harvard, etc.

Yes, grades and test scores are just one part of the admission process, but the TYPICAL applicant to these schools is not only an exceptional student w/ high test scores, they also volunteer, are a varsity athlete (usually a captain and in multiple sports), participate in a variety of extracurriculars, have 4s or 5s on AP exams, have been mainly in AP/accelerated classes, speak a 2nd language, and play a musical instrument/choir/drama. Most applicants to those schools are limiting their list of extracurriculars and honors to one page.

Things like Turtle Watch, interning at the Rep etc. can make them more interesting, but it only goes so far as most of their competition is doing the same thing.

I have a niece and nephew at the best prep school in central Florida. My niece is currently exploring some of the finest universities in the south. She's not doing the entirety of your list and it doesn't seem to be an issue. While SWHS is not an exclusive, highly regarded prep school, you don't pay $15,000.00 a year to send your kids there.

The fact is that SWHS is getting better by the year, and I suspect it is about to get a lot better. The kids coming through middle school now are from the influx of parents that arrived here after 9/11 (coincided with the St Joe boom). The parents are deeply involved and the kids are getting quality, competitive educations at the South Walton middle schools (Seaside Middle is an outstanding school). I would expect that over the next decade, you will see a number of SWHS kids attending a wide array of universities including some on the aforementioned list.

I have a niece and nephew at the best prep school in central Florida. My niece is currently exploring some of the finest universities in the south. She's not doing the entirety of your list and it doesn't seem to be an issue. While SWHS is not an exclusive, highly regarded prep school, you don't pay $15,000.00 a year to send your kids there.

The fact is that SWHS is getting better by the year, and I suspect it is about to get a lot better. The kids coming through middle school now are from the influx of parents that arrived here after 9/11 (coincided with the St Joe boom). The parents are deeply involved and the kids are getting quality, competitive educations at the South Walton middle schools (Seaside Middle is an outstanding school). I would expect that over the next decade, you will see a number of SWHS kids attending a wide array of universities including some on the aforementioned list.

Excellent points. And they all go back to the same idea of high expectations for our schools and our kids.

I have a niece and nephew at the best prep school in central Florida. My niece is currently exploring some of the finest universities in the south. She's not doing the entirety of your list and it doesn't seem to be an issue. While SWHS is not an exclusive, highly regarded prep school, you don't pay $15,000.00 a year to send your kids there.

The fact is that SWHS is getting better by the year, and I suspect it is about to get a lot better. The kids coming through middle school now are from the influx of parents that arrived here after 9/11 (coincided with the St Joe boom). The parents are deeply involved and the kids are getting quality, competitive educations at the South Walton middle schools (Seaside Middle is an outstanding school). I would expect that over the next decade, you will see a number of SWHS kids attending a wide array of universities including some on the aforementioned list.

I was talking about the applicant pools for MIT and Harvard because that is what the original poster was asking about - obviously they have higher/different requirements than "the finest universities in the South". Colleges want well rounded students with a variety of interests, not just good grades/test scores and the competition is brutal. At Harvard, more than 25,000 students are applying for 2,100 spots and MIT admits about 10% of its applicants - and each of those DENIED is an exceptional student.

Thanks to parental involvement I think our local schools will continue to improve, but I don't think it is inaccurate to say that a student who only attends class at SWMS isn't a strong candidate for MIT. IMO parental involvement, high standards, and outside educational opportunities are a huge factor in student success.

The lack of resources/budget/staff, etc. for guidance/academic counseling seems to be a problem in more than a few Florida schools. Many students have not had the proper college planning/preparation soon enough IMO

Anyone have an idea why this is so--beyond the normal lack of appropriate funding for positions that are not administrative?

Would like to work on improving the situation, but need more info....

The timing will work out- remember, we all had 7 period days, sports, jobs, and a social life- and we all survived!;-)

I know it will...I'm just remembering that my job was at my parents' store, I was able to do my homework when we didn't have customers, and being as we had a keg in the back, it was where EVERYONE hung out and so that was my social life in 1970's SoWal. Back then I never realized how easy I had it!

I was talking about the applicant pools for MIT and Harvard because that is what the original poster was asking about - obviously they have higher/different requirements than "the finest universities in the South". Colleges want well rounded students with a variety of interests, not just good grades/test scores and the competition is brutal. At Harvard, more than 25,000 students are applying for 2,100 spots and MIT admits about 10% of its applicants - and each of those DENIED is an exceptional student.

Thanks to parental involvement I think our local schools will continue to improve, but I don't think it is inaccurate to say that a student who only attends class at SWMS isn't a strong candidate for MIT. IMO parental involvement, high standards, and outside educational opportunities are a huge factor in student success.

Parents like us are looking at a great undergrad experience, preferably NON - Ivy, knowing that post grad is the real target.;-)

To the OP - it is very difficult to compare data between two states. The SAT/ACT is standard across the country. But FCAT and similar state testing standards can vary wildly. Don't get too concerned on school grades and state testing standards.

It has been my experience that the student is the most important factor in testing. While good teaching and preparation will undoubtedly improve a student's scores, you will simply not see students outpeform their own abilities. So if you have a good student in Georgia, there should be no reason to expect them to become a bad student or perform poorly on testing.

As for SAT/ACT, I don't see how those numbers are indicative of a school's quality. While far more students take the ACT than the SAT in the south, unless a school is providing mandatory prep courses, then the school really won't control the outcome.

Sometimes its easy to try and pinpoint student achievement on the educational institution and ignore the student.

Parents like us are looking at a great undergrad experience, preferably NON - Ivy, knowing that post grad is the real target.;-)

What we tried to do was provide the best environment for our children to be prepared for what ever school they chose to attend. We did not limit our childrens hopes and dreams for their education. We embraced their goals and helped them to reach for whatever star they chose. :roll:

as a former walco school board member once asked me, "if we are 48th then who is 49th 50th and 51st?"
On a more serious note i know of 1 kid that moved here with 2 years of high school to finish. lived in sowal but drove to niceville. He is now at Vanderbilt. I'm sure he raised test score averages. I also heard that U of F has highest standards for enrollment. So would a good measure for how well the high schools are doing in college prep be how many grads could at least get accepted if they wished to attend? Can any one comment on why drop out rates are so high? Thanks.

The drop out rate is an issue that I have been working on pretty hard the past two years. First, it is impossible to rely on the state's statistics on the drop out rate because they keep changing the definition of a "drop out." My idea is to measure by the number of kids that enter the 9th grade and who do not, after five years (allow one year for failure), graduate from high school by either receiving a regular diploma or a GED. That's a pretty broad definition. I have asked a staff member to track the kids that entered our various 9th grades in 2005 -2006 school year and find out whether they graduated or dropped out as defined above. We are still tracking. Of course, many transferred so we are looking for those students. I hope to have the results or the raw numbers pretty soon.

My suspicion is that most students "drop out" because after being mandatorily (spelling, or is that a word?) retained and turn 16 in the seventh or eighth grade simply give up and find a job.

Just my opinion.

thanks for working on reducing dropout rates regardless of how they are defined. I think you are right on target in your previous post regarding ongoing teacher training to enhance a continuously more challenging curriculum for those students who would qualify for advanced placement. please do not forget the value of recess and physical education as a part of every day wellness. 7 periods of academics with no recess no p.e. then combined with a crappy lunch never works. respectfully submitted.

What we tried to do was provide the best environment for our children to be prepared for what ever school they chose to attend. We did not limit our childrens hopes and dreams for their education. We embraced their goals and helped them to reach for whatever star they chose. :roll:

Exactly my point too! I want my children prepared for whatever they choose. I want to know that SWHS will provide my children with the tools they need to be successful in college and beyond. A good point was made stating if I had good students here, it would likely continue there. I agree to a point, but you can only know/learn what you have been exposed to. I want to feel confident (and will work with the schools) that my children are being exposed to the same material and have the same expectations placed on them as other top schools.