High School Test Scores

thanks for working on reducing dropout rates regardless of how they are defined. I think you are right on target in your previous post regarding ongoing teacher training to enhance a continuously more challenging curriculum for those students who would qualify for advanced placement. please do not forget the value of recess and physical education as a part of every day wellness. 7 periods of academics with no recess no p.e. then combined with a crappy lunch never works. respectfully submitted.

I agree wholeheartedly. Professional development for teachers is one of the most, if not the most important, tool for school improvement. And, I also agree that a strong curriculum focuses on not only math, science, language, etc., but also p.e., art, music, etc....We must constantly fight the temptation to weaken our curriculum by narrowing our curriculum. Lastly, I am also convinced that the greatest gift the legislature could give our students is a longer school day or school year. 180 days is simply not enough time to teach what we need to teach and should be taught.... Again, just one opinion.....

I agree wholeheartedly. Professional development for teachers is one of the most, if not the most important, tool for school improvement. And, I also agree that a strong curriculum focuses on not only math, science, language, etc., but also p.e., art, music, etc....We must constantly fight the temptation to weaken our curriculum by narrowing our curriculum. Lastly, I am also convinced that the greatest gift the legislature could give our students is a longer school day or school year. 180 days is simply not enough time to teach what we need to teach and should be taught.... Again, just one opinion.....

Wouldn't a longer school year have a negative efect on teacher recruitment? One of the things you always hear is that teachers enjoy the summer vacation. It seems the ultimate effect would be to increase teachers salaries to compensate for the longer work period which would lead to either increased taxes or less money spent on the actual students.

Longer school years might be one of those things that sounds good but could lead to unpleasant consequences.

I tutor college students who need help with writing. Please, please improve the high school writing courses--so many of the incoming students are so focused on the process (to abide by the FCAT I guess) , they never realize how important the message is...critical thinking skills combined with good communication skills, both written and oral, will take all students a long way toward success in all their subjects.

(not getting on my soap box, I promise)

I agree wholeheartedly. Professional development for teachers is one of the most, if not the most important, tool for school improvement. And, I also agree that a strong curriculum focuses on not only math, science, language, etc., but also p.e., art, music, etc....We must constantly fight the temptation to weaken our curriculum by narrowing our curriculum. Lastly, I am also convinced that the greatest gift the legislature could give our students is a longer school day or school year. 180 days is simply not enough time to teach what we need to teach and should be taught.... Again, just one opinion.....

On this one, we must agree to disagree. Not necessarily about the 180 days, but the year is ungodly long as it is now. For example, this coming year school starts on Aug 24 and the last day of school is June 10. For kids that work, our summer season is in full swing and they will be working when they should be studying for final exams (this happened to us last year; fortunately there were only two classes to study for. That won't be the case this year).

You and I grew up in the Walton County School System about the same time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I distinctly remember starting school the week before Labor Day and ending at the beginning of Memorial Day weekend. Working in my parents' store drilled that into my memory! We were on six 6-week periods instead of the current four 9-week periods, and we were out one day each six weeks for teacher inservice. We got all 180 of our days in, except once when Hurricane Eloise nailed us. I can't figure out why we can't do that now.

I know we now have a spring break, which we didn't have back then. I also know there is a calendar committee, which obviously I've never been on. But with tourism being our major industry, Walton County kids should not be in school after Memorial Day. :angry:

*off soapbox*

...there is just something strange about these calendar committees....

Shining the light on the earlier comment about "crappy lunch." What is Walton County district doing to improve nutrition in schools? I know a number of school districts around USA are working to bring in local organic food instead of grease-starch-dye-chemical-filled gov't surplus commodity junk...Also I know there is an Extension Service effort going on now in Walton County (Walton ACT) to find and nurture and strengthen local agriculture, local economy, etc.

Seems a natural fit for schools to get in on the action; I have long thought that every school having an organic veggie garden/compost/etc. would go ang way toward impoving lifelong nutrition and wellness as well as that durng school day; teach valuabe skills; provide healthy food; and on and on about th ebenfits of gardening. Given that tourism remains our main revenue base, seems if nothing else, vo-techs could be emphasizing organic gourmet gardening, cooking, nutrition, growing local, etc.

Back down off the soap box and back to my original question -- what is going on in Walton County schools around replacing junk food with real food, includng more fresh fruits and vegetables?

BTW, Mark, good to see you participating here. Thank you.

good points, Susan. The garden at Seaside Schools appears to have been a huge success. So much opportunity to learn when planting/caring for/harvesting a garden.

It is sad to me to see that Walton County, which used to have so many farms, and everyone had a garden, has become addicted to junk-fast food -- I think the school lunches are horrible (from my experience as a sub and complaints the students voiced to me). Surely, something can done to improve the food.

Love the idea about using local produce or school gardens for lunch menus. I will check on the viability of doing so. I strongly suspect that the problem will be the various health and safety standards that the school lunch program has to deal with from the State and Federal Gov'ts.

By the way, I try to eat in all the lunchrooms every year. I have been negligent for the past few years and have not made it to all of them. My experience is that the food quality varies from school to school.

As for the longer school year; I agree that given all of the holidays, teacher work days, etc., the school year is much longer than in the 1970s when I went to high school. But, I also know that we are trying to teach more and more required content using the same number of teaching days and hours. Maybe extending the school day is a better solution.

As always, thanks for the input. I truly believe these discussions make me a better and more informed board member.

On this one, we must agree to disagree. Not necessarily about the 180 days, but the year is ungodly long as it is now. For example, this coming year school starts on Aug 24 and the last day of school is June 10. For kids that work, our summer season is in full swing and they will be working when they should be studying for final exams (this happened to us last year; fortunately there were only two classes to study for. That won't be the case this year).

You and I grew up in the Walton County School System about the same time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I distinctly remember starting school the week before Labor Day and ending at the beginning of Memorial Day weekend. Working in my parents' store drilled that into my memory! We were on six 6-week periods instead of the current four 9-week periods, and we were out one day each six weeks for teacher inservice. We got all 180 of our days in, except once when Hurricane Eloise nailed us. I can't figure out why we can't do that now.

I know we now have a spring break, which we didn't have back then. I also know there is a calendar committee, which obviously I've never been on. But with tourism being our major industry, Walton County kids should not be in school after Memorial Day. :angry:

*off soapbox*

Calendar Committee?? Wow... if we get to make this move, I'd like to see how I can become a part of that! Are non school board members allowed to participate on such committees? Our calendars are given to us through Fulton County (i.e. downtown). It just feels "untouchable". I'm just one of 7 million. Maybe I can make some real contribution. I know the state of North Carolina decided to enforce a calendar state wide because their revenues on the coast were so greatly effected by school starting in early August (we start next week here in Atlanta...yuck!). Now, no county in the state is allowed to start school before August 25th (around there). I feel confident things are driven by the tourist season in SoWal as well.

The "calendar committee" is a creature of the collective bargaining agreement between the teachers, staff and school board. The committee is made up of appointees from the school superintendent; the unions and one school board member. I have served as the school board member several times and I do not believe we have a parent/public member of the board per the contract. However, the meetings are adverstised in the media and we have had public input. I, personally, would love to have more public input. The State of Florida mandates a starting time (with exceptions) and we must have 180 days of instruction, certain holidays, certain number of days in each grading period, certain contractual teacher planning days. It sounds simple to do, but, in reality, takes a lot of hard work and time to put it together. But, again, I think parent input is invaluable.

Love the idea about using local produce or school gardens for lunch menus. I will check on the viability of doing so. I strongly suspect that the problem will be the various health and safety standards that the school lunch program has to deal with from the State and Federal Gov'ts.

By the way, I try to eat in all the lunchrooms every year. I have been negligent for the past few years and have not made it to all of them. My experience is that the food quality varies from school to school.

As always, thanks for the input. I truly believe these discussions make me a better and more informed board member.

Mark,

I appreciate your willingness to investigate getting fresh local food into the schools. I haven't had lunch in a Walton County school in a while, but when I worked at Bay (LONG ago), the food was vile. Even the "good stuff" they served teachers. And when onw of our boys went to South Walton (one year only), the food was nasty, and most of the students ended up getting by on sodas and expensive little bags of engineered fatty salty sugary "food" from vending machines or the nearby Tom Thumb.

Along this same vein, has Walton County followed the lead of many school districts by banning junk food machines in schools? Why not have juice, trail mix, that sort of stuff in the vending machines rather than chemical junk?

BTW, if there are state regs against having real food in lunchrooms, there must also be some way around it. Like having Home Ec, Biology, Vo-tech (hospitality, gardening, ag) classes, whatever, in which students grow the food, prepare it, serve it and eat it. That would be a start at least. If Alice Waters can serve local fresh food in CA schools, there must be a way around whatever Fed regs are in place...

Mark,

I appreciate your willingness to investigate getting fresh local food into the schools. I haven't had lunch in a Walton County school in a while, but when I worked at Bay (LONG ago), the food was vile. Even the "good stuff" they served teachers. And when onw of our boys went to South Walton (one year only), the food was nasty, and most of the students ended up getting by on sodas and expensive little bags of engineered fatty salty sugary "food" from vending machines or the nearby Tom Thumb.

Along this same vein, has Walton County followed the lead of many school districts by banning junk food machines in schools? Why not have juice, trail mix, that sort of stuff in the vending machines rather than chemical junk?

BTW, if there are state regs against having real food in lunchrooms, there must also be some way around it. Like having Home Ec, Biology, Vo-tech (hospitality, gardening, ag) classes, whatever, in which students grow the food, prepare it, serve it and eat it. That would be a start at least. If Alice Waters can serve local fresh food in CA schools, there must be a way around whatever Fed regs are in place...

Thanks Susan: I am going to meet with Mr. Terri Miller, our food service coordinator and I will express your concerns and ideas to him. He is a great guy who cares deeply about children. I am sure that if there is a way, he will find it. Thanks again.

M

O.K., I am going to ask a pointed question. We are considering moving to SoWal full time in the summer of 2010. We have three school age children who will be in both the elementary and middle school grades by that time. I am satisfied with answers I've gotten about academics and the overall school environment for both. What concerns me is the High School choices. Neither South Walton HS or Arnold have very strong FCAT scores (46% are reading at or above 10th grade level when they took the test ). We are coming from schools who test scores are in the high 90's. What is being done about this? Does anyone see any changes for these high schools? There are many wonderful reasons for moving to the area, but I can't ignore what is on paper about these schools. Any information would be helpful. And honestly, don't give me the "test scores aren't everything" line. A score of 46% is unacceptable, and as a future community member, it's not good enough for our kids. Is anyone talking about how to solve this problem? Am I missing something?

We moved to South Walton in the summer of 2006 from out of state. The previous schools I had attended were the elementary and middle schools that feed into a public high school that Newsweek rated in the top 70 in the nation. Here in Florida I attended Emerald Coast middle School, Seaside, and South Walton. The first one was Emerald Coast and I felt some teachers had very low expectations of their students. Very much class time is wasted not working and there was minimal homework. I was also shocked coming from a school in Texas where it seemed like every child in middle school wanted and planned to go to college regardless of economic background that here only the biggest of overachievers (relative to the other kids at the school) have any plans of even attending a mediocre college (I think that idea is cemented by the stat about how many South Walton students took the SAT). I had one teacher who spent the first part class complaining about how she had to drive from Defuniak every morning. A certain history teachers version of teaching was us reading silently from the textbook for the entire class. This was shocking to me because in the past my history classes had entailed discussions of how the facts impacted history rather than only learning the facts and not why they mattered. I consider only having students read from the textbook during class every day lazy teaching. I would say the Math and science classes were stronger because at least they had regular homework and more interactive teachers.



By the end of October I got to the top of the waiting list at Seaside (the charter middle school) where admission is solely based on a lottery. Seaside had a much different feel than Emerald Coast. The teachers seemed like they were happier than the ones at emerald coast they were much more involved in each students progress. Seaside was a national blue ribbon school last year with very high test scores for the area and respectable compared to the rest of the nation (reading; 91%, Math; 97%). Ive always thought these state standerized tests are very below grade level and should easily be passed easily by anyone who even thinks they have a chance at college. The only negative thing I could say about seaside is that there are some students that although smart don't seem to be very motivated and that slows down the pace of some very good teachers who are forced to babysit rather than teach.


Like most public high schools across the country South Walton has many different types of students from drugees to very smart over achievers. I feel as though the school fails the smarter more motivated students the most. they are getting rid of block scheduling so i think that will help a lot because when I was there some teachers were unable to keep a lesson going for 82 minutes and it led to way to much down time and that meant at the end of the semester we hadn't learned everything neccessary. A math teacher told us (her class) that she had recieved an incoming class of students for algebra 2 honors from what was supposed to be algebra honors and they had only finished half of the algebra 1 book. So she had to waste loads of time teaching algebra 1 in what was supposed to be an algebra 2 honors class. The honors classes at South Walton are jokes there was a student in my algebra 2 honors class that mabye turned in 2 homework assignments the entire semester. We waste so much time grading homework and tests in class that we have to rush through the lesson with no questions. Some people might say what other students do in class shouldn't effect you but when the teacher has to spend time getting kids to stop goofing off it hurts everyone. And in English and history classes which at a high level should include the teacher being more of a moderator of an advanced class discussion than a lecturer; the teachers can't do that because some students aren't prepared so it ends up hurting the entire class. One english teacher whom I have much respect for often said there should be 3 levels of classes struggling, normal and advanced, because there are to many kids in honors that shouldn't be and it hurts all the students that should be in honors because she can't teach the class at a high enough level.


The biggest worry I had at South Walton and a big reason why I left was even the teachers at the school (mainly ones that had taught elsewhere) told me that South Walton does not prepare you for college because there is not enough studying away from school, the honors classes do not develop complex ideas, and some teachers let it all happen.


I don't blame all of the teachers at South Walton there are some of them that recognize what is going on and are trying to end it. I believe the problem are the students who don't want to be there, disrupting everyones learning as well as the (decreasing) number of teachers who don't do their jobs and want to be friends with the students rather than their teachers.

I am sorry your experience was so bad. Motivating teachers and students is difficult at best. But, please know, the board and superintendent consider instruction and quality instruction our number one priority.

M

[/QUOTE]In my opinion the FCAT scores would not go up. The FCAT tests Reading, Writing, Math and some science. You are right, we are focused on those four subjects and we probably do not spend enough time in literature, higher math, history, arts, geography, non-FCAT science, etc. Thus, if you spread you resources to the other subjects, you probably get diluted resources spent on the FCAT. The better students would do okay on the FCAT, but, the lower performing students would be underserved. So, I think what would happen is that your FCAT scores would go down, while, the rigor of your overall curriculum would go up. Kind of ironic, huh....

That's why I have always argued that high schools should be graded by requiring every student to take either the SAT and ACT and measure the school's performance by the average score and how much those scores improve..... Just one opinion....[/QUOTE]


I agree 100% with you on both of those points

I also agree that not enough time is spent in more advanced subjects like literature and higher level thinking in history and math. Its probably right that better students would still do okay on the FCAT if the curriculum became more college prep based, but lower level students would struggle.

But I don't see why (although i usually attributed it to budget problems) the school cant be more selective in who takes honors classes. I always felt like so many potentially very smart kids in my "honors" english class were being left behind when my teacher would tell us that 30% of us are more than ready to have our "quality of instruction" (your number one priority). Increased and go onto more advanced literature and other things. But she can't because theres kids in this class who she says should be in regular english

I'm just curious, have any kids ever graduated from SWHS and gone to an Ivy?

Bump

In my opinion the FCAT scores would not go up. The FCAT tests Reading, Writing, Math and some science. You are right, we are focused on those four subjects and we probably do not spend enough time in literature, higher math, history, arts, geography, non-FCAT science, etc. Thus, if you spread you resources to the other subjects, you probably get diluted resources spent on the FCAT. The better students would do okay on the FCAT, but, the lower performing students would be underserved. So, I think what would happen is that your FCAT scores would go down, while, the rigor of your overall curriculum would go up. Kind of ironic, huh....

That's why I have always argued that high schools should be graded by requiring every student to take either the SAT and ACT and measure the school's performance by the average score and how much those scores improve..... Just one opinion....[/QUOTE]


I agree 100% with you on both of those points

I also agree that not enough time is spent in more advanced subjects like literature and higher level thinking in history and math. Its probably right that better students would still do okay on the FCAT if the curriculum became more college prep based, but lower level students would struggle.

But I don't see why (although i usually attributed it to budget problems) the school cant be more selective in who takes honors classes. I always felt like so many potentially very smart kids in my "honors" english class were being left behind when my teacher would tell us that 30% of us are more than ready to have our "quality of instruction" (your number one priority). Increased and go onto more advanced literature and other things. But she can't because theres kids in this class who she says should be in regular english[/QUOTE]

If anyone thinks that students are all going to learn at the same pace and on the same level, they're not thinking as the educator they were trained to be... even in honors courses! I can't understand how a teacher can give that as an excuse to hold certain kids back from learning new material. You are taught in EDU 101 how to deal with that. If that is truly happening, it's an administrative issue that needs to be dealt with. The teachers will absorb the attitude of their administrators. If they feel their ingenuity in the classroom is not valued and/or rewarded they won't give it. Adults behave the same as children. They will only go as far as the bar is set. Don't blast me... I feel confident the teachers at SWHS are talented and dedicated. A standard has to be set with clear direction on how to get there.

Hey, I have always thought that every class should be taught as though it was a honors class. By designating a class "non-honors" are we not automatically lowering expectations for those students? Just a thought.

i guess there is no stopping the "white elephant" middle school in lieu of more, better, and highly trained teachers?

Or maybe it isn't a white elephant but i keep hearing that enrollments are shrinking.

I guess I don't understand the high importance placed on teaching the FCAT "content" - we had statewide standardized tests and there was no special prep that I was aware of.

IMO if you are doing a good job of educating kids they should be passing the tests w/ no problem - right?

Math, grammar, spelling, reading, basic history - these are not subjects where a good basic education won't help you pass a test.

Hey, I have always thought that every class should be taught as though it was a honors class. By designating a class "non-honors" are we not automatically lowering expectations for those students? Just a thought.

It fundamentally ignores that kids learn different ways and at different speeds. As someone who always tested at the good far pointy end of the bell curve, I can't say how much I loved finally getting into high school and honors classes where I wasn't utterly bored out of my mind because the teacher had to go at such a slow speed and keep repeating everything ten different ways for the normal speed learners.

I could rant forever how much the education system in this country neglects the true gifted & talented kids (not just the ones that work hard) but that's another topic.

It fundamentally ignores that kids learn different ways and at different speeds. As someone who always tested at the good far pointy end of the bell curve, I can't say how much I loved finally getting into high school and honors classes where I wasn't utterly bored out of my mind because the teacher had to go at such a slow speed and keep repeating everything ten different ways for the normal speed learners.

I could rant forever how much the education system in this country neglects the true gifted & talented kids (not just the ones that work hard) but that's another topic.

So could I but it never got results, so our kids went to (and one still is attending) a top-notch out of state boarding school with high standards, academic and otherwise. Very fortunate we've been able to do this -- it is insanely expensive and not an option for everyone, certainly was not our first choice; which is why I try to stay involved and continue seeking improvement in our schools here for all students.

It really is sad to see the gifted and talented kids not have their brilliances recognized, addressed, honored, cultivated. The usual pattern, for boys anyway, that I have observed, is for them to start cutting up and getting into trouble out of boredom. Then they get the rep of being trouble, and the chance of ever getting appropriately challenged in the classroom is farther off than ever. Sometmes I've seen this with girls also, but more often they push themselves to adapt and find a way, or get quiet and move in a depressive direction.

It is a crime the way we abuse our best and brightest, IMHO, not just against them but against the nation as a whole because we as a nation will not benefit from the amazing contributions they might make if properly educated.

I better not get started. Yeah, that's me not even warmed up on the subject yet.

So could I but it never got results, so our kids went to (and one still is attending) a top-notch out of state boarding school with high standards, academic and otherwise. Very fortunate we've been able to do this -- it is insanely expensive and not an option for everyone, certainly was not our first choice; which is why I try to stay involved and continue seeking improvement in our schools here for all students.

It really is sad to see the gifted and talented kids not have their brilliances recognized, addressed, honored, cultivated. The usual pattern, for boys anyway, that I have observed, is for them to start cutting up and getting into trouble out of boredom. Then they get the rep of being trouble, and the chance of ever getting appropriately challenged in the classroom is farther off than ever. Sometmes I've seen this with girls also, but more often they push themselves to adapt and find a way, or get quiet and move in a depressive direction.

It is a crime the way we abuse our best and brightest, IMHO, not just against them but against the nation as a whole because we as a nation will not benefit from the amazing contributions they might make if properly educated.

I better not get started. Yeah, that's me not even warmed up on the subject yet.

I completely agree as someone who has had to leave the high school for an out of state boarding school. Its a problem that the school is so focused (even though they feel like they need to be because of funding) on FCAT that teachers have to teach the test and everything is catered towards students that struggle on a state standerized test that a lot of smarter or more focused students think is very easy. Those smarter students are the ones that really get left behind in this district and it makes a solid high school and more importantly good college education almost seem impossible.

hkem1,

Was application to the Collegiate High School at NWFSC (or OWCC, as I still know it) or dual enrollment at NWFSC not an option for you, to allow you access to a more challenging curriculum but to still live at home? Or was boarding school your choice?

hkem1,

Was application to the Collegiate High School at NWFSC (or OWCC, as I still know it) or dual enrollment at NWFSC not an option for you, to allow you access to a more challenging curriculum but to still live at home? Or was boarding school your choice?

The collegiate high school was definitely something I considered and I would recommend it to a lot of students. Things that made me hesitant to attend are that its like most high schools ends at 3 in the afternoon so i wouldn't be able to get back to south walton in time for any athletics or most after school activities and top schools are definitely looking for students involved in their schools beyond academics. Another general concern I had is that although I am sure the classes are more challenging than South Walton i doubt NWFSC class rigor compares to that of a top university so I worried I would go to college and not be prepared for the work load. Which is what I think a lot of south walton students will experience.

But yes going to boarding school was my choice but only after difficult decisions and concessions of living at home were made.