Back to All About SoWal

Lowering the speed limit on 30A?

SGB avatar
SGBBeach Fanatic
51,440 views
A speed bump on 30A... As citizens strive to lower speed limit, bigger plans emerge | 30a, speed, change - Local News - WaltonSun.com


A SPEED BUMP ON 30A: As citizens strive to lower speed limit, bigger plans emerge
January 08, 2010 10:30 AM
By Matt Algarin

Will 45 be a thing of the past on 30A?

Friends of Scenic 30A and members of the public gathered on Jan. 4 to discuss lowering the speed limit on 30A to 35 mph for the entire 18.5 mile stretch. The change would let low-speed vehicles, like street-modified golf carts, share the roadway with cars.

Bill Freeze, Chairperson for the Friends, believes the change will have nothing but positive end results.

?These beaches have been voted as one of the 12 best places to see in 2010.? Freeze said. ?We have noticed that we need to educate the tourists and the residents about what we have here in paradise.?

Freeze added that LSVs have to be registered and licensed, which will provide additional income for the county.

About two dozen supportive residents and industry experts gathered to hear the proposals made by the group.

In order for an electric cart or LSV to share the roadway with cars, the speed limit can be no greater than 35 mph. There are currently four miles of roadway on 30A where the speed limit is 45 mph.

In addition to allowing LSVs to traverse the roadway, supporters say the change would help to alleviate some of the traffic by encouraging motorists who are in a hurry to use the feeder roads that run north and south to get to their destinations.

Graham Fountain, chief of special operations for the Sheriff?s Office, clarified that this only pertains to electric carts, not golf carts.

?Because it looks like a duck, talks like a duck and quacks like a duck, but it?s a goose,? Fountain said while describing that anyone who is caught driving a gas-powered cart on 30A would be ticketed.

?The sheriff?s office will be taking a neutral position on the topic,? Fountain said of the speed-limit change. ?We haven?t pulled traffic (data) to see how many crashes involved these types of vehicles.?

?We do have some concerns because 30A is a little atypical than the usual roads you may do this on,? Fountain added. ?When the building starts up again on 30A you are going to have a lot more dump trucks and mixers going up and down the road.?

Tim Paul, who is a former district five commissioner and developer of Topsail Village on 30A, said changing the speed limit should be the first step.

?I think the whole idea is to have a complete system,? Pauls said. ?You shouldn?t have to only be able to use your LSV on 30A. You should actually be able to make a useful trip with it.?

Tom Stein, the Director for the Friends of Scenic 30A, agreed.

Stein said he ?has always had a lifetime interest in public transit and was a cable car grip man in San Francisco for four years.

?With my background in public transit and in addition to living here for the past 30 years or so watching the traffic load increase here on 30A,? Stein said, ?it has led me to the conclusion that some kind of public transit needs to be established on 30A.?

Stein said that the time is imminent and that something has to happen now.

The Friends of Scenic 30A will be holding another public forum on the first Monday in February to discuss updates on traffic crashes and the price tag for redesigning 30A for a bike path and low speed vehicles.

Replies

285
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#152
robertsondavies,

With all due respect how far is the rental you are trying to keep out of foreclosure from the beach?

Fair enough question. Yes, I agree thatif the county agrees to make the last couple remaining stretches of 30A passable by LSV, it will increase property values that are NOT gulf front or 2nd row. Not to get too personal, but as for your personal question, I sold my beach house in Seagrove in early 2005, and am looking to buy again now.

I wish everyone would just walk everywhere. Barring that, I'm not ANTI LSV, I'm pro LSV like many around the country, despite that they are not a green panacea. All I really want is that stretch at Deer Lake to be LSV amenable. It's the one stretch, that cuts off someone having the run of South Walton in an LSV, between Grayton Beach and Rosemary. It disconnects Seacrest/Alys Beach/Rosemary/Inlet, from the other side of Seagrove/Seaside/Watercolor/Grayton.

It's one stretch that can make the whole thing cohesive. There is fierce opposition to this proposal, which I support wholeheartedly. Some of the opposition is well reasoned. Much is uninformed not understanding that LSV's are currently allowed all over 30A currently, except on the couple of stretches that are 45MPH.
Carol G avatar
Carol GBeach Fanatic
#153
Fair enough question. Yes, I agree thatif the county agrees to make the last couple remaining stretches of 30A passable by LSV, it will increase property values that are NOT gulf front or 2nd row. Not to get too personal, but as for your personal question, I sold my beach house in Seagrove in early 2005, and am looking to buy again now.

I wish everyone would just walk everywhere. Barring that, I'm not ANTI LSV, I'm pro LSV like many around the country, despite that they are not a green panacea. All I really want is that stretch at Deer Lake to be LSV amenable. It's the one stretch, that cuts off someone having the run of South Walton in an LSV, between Grayton Beach and Rosemary. It disconnects Seacrest/Alys Beach/Rosemary/Inlet, from the other side of Seagrove/Seaside/Watercolor/Grayton.

It's one stretch that can make the whole thing cohesive. There is fierce opposition to this proposal, which I support wholeheartedly. Some of the opposition is well reasoned. Much is uninformed not understanding that LSV's are currently allowed all over 30A currently, except on the couple of stretches that are 45MPH.

I live on that stretch of 30A, drive it at least twice a day, and I think lowering the speed limit there would be insane. People already regularly drive between 50-65 mph there, I am watching them fly by right now. Putting a bunch of unsecured passengers in an open air vehicle in the speeding and ever-increasing traffic volume that travels that corridor is a recipe for disaster.

I am not anti-green, I am pro-safety. Enforce the laws on the books already and improve the technology so that LSV's travel at a higher rate of speed in a safe, enclosed manner, and I'm all for it. Better yet, start a shuttle service using a vehicle that can legally travel the road as the law reads today. Changing a law that is not even enforced, making it more rigid, just to appease a few people, is not smart. I have no desire to witness anyone being killed on 30A, and I have no doubt that would be the result
Teresa avatar
TeresaSoWal Guide
#154
ban on vehicles on 30A? then why not in Florida? or the USA? the argument is really getting ridiculous. no one is against the use of a golf cart where safely permitted within a neighborhood - this is what they are designed for - short range recreational travel. not 17 miles to dinner at Stinky's from your "resort" on 30A.

forget about the ridiculous notion of everyone going out and getting yet an additional mode of transportation to add to their SUV, honda civic, smart car, scooter and beach jeep. just the fact that it is so ridiculous to contemplate anyone actually going anywhere in one - it isn't practical, it isn't safe, it is in no way "green" and it is not going to get you where you want to go unless its two or three blocks from the rental to the beach access - in which case it should be perfectly allowable.
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#155
I live on that stretch of 30A, drive it at least twice a day, and I think lowering the speed limit there would be insane. People already regularly drive between 50-65 mph there, I am watching them fly by right now. Putting a bunch of unsecured passengers in an open air vehicle in the speeding and ever-increasing traffic volume that travels that corridor is a recipe for disaster.

I am not anti-green, I am pro-safety. Enforce the laws on the books already and improve the technology so that LSV's travel at a higher rate of speed in a safe, enclosed manner, and I'm all for it. Better yet, start a shuttle service using a vehicle that can legally travel the road as the law reads today. Changing a law that is not even enforced, making it more rigid, just to appease a few people, is not smart. I have no desire to witness anyone being killed on 30A, and I have no doubt that would be the result

Ok, a couple excellent observations and points. I would share some the concern of wanting to preserve human life. I myself usually probably travel between 50 and 60MPH on that stretch myself in my SUV. I often come across bicyclists in that stretch among others, and they're going about 25MPH sometimes less, sometimes a bit more... about the save speed as an LSV.

I dont' want to see a bicyclists get killed either, but I'm not willing to take away their freedom to ride that stretch and hope a drunk idiot going 75 not paying attention does not hit them. It is a dangerous stretch in a bicycle or in an LSV - very true. Do you think cyclists should also stay off 45MPH stretches of 30A because of the this? It's a tough call, granted.

I totally agree that LSV's should be made to go faster, to be safer. That is a subject of national debate right now actually, among manufactureres of LSVs who are limited by the original statutes granting them special status, to limit the speed capability, which can easily be boosted by manafacturers... sometimes speed equals more safety, and that is definitely one such case. I am in no way supportive of non LSV compliant vehicles on 30A, and am leery of golf carts made to barely comply, but that can't get up past 20mph.

good points anyhow. I'd interested in your view on whether cyclists should be protected from the potential horrors on that stretch too, or not?
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#156
ban on vehicles on 30A? then why not in Florida? or the USA? the argument is really getting ridiculous. no one is against the use of a golf cart where safely permitted within a neighborhood - this is what they are designed for - short range recreational travel. not 17 miles to dinner at Stinky's from your "resort" on 30A.

forget about the ridiculous notion of everyone going out and getting yet an additional mode of transportation to add to their SUV, honda civic, smart car, scooter and beach jeep. just the fact that it is so ridiculous to contemplate anyone actually going anywhere in one - it isn't practical, it isn't safe, it is in no way "green" and it is not going to get you where you want to go unless its two or three blocks from the rental to the beach access - in which case it should be perfectly allowable.


sorry, i'm not quite getting your point clearly, or question - if its addressed to me.
dilligasBeach Crab
#157
I'm all for lower speeds on 30A. I'm one of those "fools" that drives 25 mph in the 45mph zones anyway (at least until I notice that someone's behind me). I like the slower pace of SoWal life. What's the hurry when you're driving on one of the most scenic stretches of road in the country?
Just Curious avatar
Just CuriousBeach Fanatic
#158
For safetys' sake it should be made a FREEWAY, with ZERO cars and ZERo LSV's allowed then. I disagree respectfully with your point, that 30A is not a resort area. Yes it is not a legally defined Planned Unit Develoment per se.. sure.. but it is one cohesive resort area, bound by many things, like this website for one. Watercolor, just aint Watercolor without Seaside, and without the run of 30A to Grayton's offerings, and Deer Lake's beauty. When people stay in Seagrove Beach they lunch at Bud & Alley's Taco Bar for instance, ditto the folks in Watercolor who frequent Sundog Books, or Cafe Onano. Cohesively bound by a unique geography, a wonderful mutli-use path, a world renowned architectural and urban planning style called new urbanism, a sense of community, a place of being, a state of mind (SoWal), etc. 30A is a wonderfully elegant resort area, with distinctive, interactive neighborhoods. That it is technically not one PUD resort is missing the point about people actually USE the area, and THINK about the area. It is a good point of debate however. I hate to see 30A as a FREEWAY or Highway running efficiently, through a series of numerous and different (perhaps controlled access even in future) resort 'hoods. If what you say are true, and shared view of enough people, you can just raise the speed limit on 30A to 50MPH, and then make it "safe" because no LSV's will then be allowed on it at all. The new I- 30 Interstate will also help make your point

Sorry, I'm still siding with the Friends of 30A on this one...

No INTERSTATING of 30A !


I don't think the Friends of 30 A ever said that they wanted to change the speed limit. The idea was brought up to them, so they advertised their meeting about it to see what the community thought. And obviously the majority of the community is not in favor of it, so they dropped it. I was hoping that meant this thread would eventually do the same thing, but I wasn't so lucky.
Teresa avatar
TeresaSoWal Guide
#159
there is an entire thread dedicated to the debate of cyclists on 30A. good arguments on both sides. but entirely different from the speed limit/golf cart issue.
Carol G avatar
Carol GBeach Fanatic
#160
Ok, a couple excellent observations and points. I would share some the concern of wanting to preserve human life. I myself usually probably travel between 50 and 60MPH on that stretch myself in my SUV. I often come across bicyclists in that stretch among others, and they're going about 25MPH sometimes less, sometimes a bit more... about the save speed as an LSV.

I dont' want to see a bicyclists get killed either, but I'm not willing to take away their freedom to ride that stretch and hope a drunk idiot going 75 not paying attention does not hit them. It is a dangerous stretch in a bicycle or in an LSV - very true. Do you think cyclists should also stay off 45MPH stretches of 30A because of the this? It's a tough call, granted.

I totally agree that LSV's should be made to go faster, to be safer. That is a subject of national debate right now actually, among manufactureres of LSVs who are limited by the original statutes granting them special status, to limit the speed capability, which can easily be boosted by manafacturers... sometimes speed equals more safety, and that is definitely one such case. I am in no way supportive of non LSV compliant vehicles on 30A, and am leery of golf carts made to barely comply, but that can't get up past 20mph.

good points anyhow. I'd interested in your view on whether cyclists should be protected from the potential horrors on that stretch too, or not?

I frequently see cyclists on that stretch too, and they are almost always courteous and ride in single file on the far right. Passing them safely and fairly quickly is usually easy, except on the most crowded days in season. There's a short stretch around Prominence where there is a central island which prevents passing, which can be troublesome. The folks who have to suddenly slow down after going 60 typically don't like that, and the folks behind them who cant see what is going on really don't like it, and it gets ugly.

I do not believe people would respond well to actual vehicles which take up the same amount of lane space as a car, and they could perhaps even mistake it for a car and not realize how slow it was going until they were almost rear-ending it. Passing would take longer and require crossing completely into the oncoming lane, which I almost never have to do with cyclists.

What I would really like to see is a bicycle lane in at least one direction on 30A. And while I'm dreaming, ensure the bike/walking path is completely separate from 30A for its entire length. Crossing the causeway at Camp Creek Lake while walking a dog is not fun when there is nothing separating you from the speeding vehicles, and there are several places like that along 30A.

Edited

pennstaterBeach Comber
#161
.... And while I'm dreaming, ensure the bike/walking path is completely separate from 30A for its entire length. Crossing the causeway at Camp Creek Lake while walking a dog is not fun when there is nothing separating you from the speeding vehicles, and there are several places like that along 30A.

Could not agree more. I also don't understand why all the areas with the path on the roadway shoulder are not posted for 25 MPH. I believe the two areas west of Watercolor are even worse than the area at Camp Creek and I believe the limit there is 45 MPH. I've seen many small children on bicycles that should not be that close to a roadway with a 45 MPH or even a 35 MPH speed limit.

Since LSVs are already legal on most of 30A and elsewhere in the state, the focus should be on enforcement of the existing requirements. I would argue that most, if not all, of the LSVs I have seen do not meet the requirements posted earlier. If the requirements were enforced I would welcome their presence. This concept is called sharing. Try it you might like it.
scooterbug44 avatar
scooterbug44SoWal Expert
#162
Spring breakers are here ............... and some in my neighborhood rented a cart/LSV from a local company.

Yesterday they confirmed every safety concern/prediction of bad behavior people have posted in this thread. :bang:
nr light avatar
nr lightBeach Comber
#163
What a crock! You are really all about money not green in my estimation. I drive a new Nissan Versa. It is a small economical car but you fail to mention that if LSV's were allowed on 30A it would probably not prohibit the gas powered ones as well which would put out far more pollution than my Versa. Green, my butt! Its all about money.


The state of Florida does not currently allow GAS powered LSV's. They won't be on the road because they won't be registered at the DMV. They won't have tags and they will get pulled over.

I see that many of you say that safety is your primary concern with having these new vehicles on the road. Everyone is speeding to work. Big trucks are going 50-60 mph! Little LSV's are going to get run down because EVERYONE is speeding. Speeding. I think that if your primary concern really was safety... than slow down. Go the speed LIMIT at least. Isn't it safer if we all just go a bit slower anyway? And we are talking a mile here and a mile there...not lowering the speed limit on ALL of 30a.

I feel like we are on the cusp of a very progressive movement here...in a way that is different from most communities. Its hard to deny that there is a world-wide advancement to "green" vehicles, cars and hybrids. Awesome. But 30a is different because of that unique resort-FEEL. (I know there are lots of different resort communities, but Jeffersondavies has a point in that they all FEEL as part of the same community and this forum attests to that.) We CAN do green here like many places can't. We have an opportunity to be progressive and unique. I think LSV's are a step. I think they embrace the lifestyle and genuine quality of life that 30a is known for...

At the very least, it is worth looking into further.
John R avatar
John Rneeds to get out more
#164
I think today or tomorrow, or even Wednesday would be a great day for you and robertsondavies to come and sit and watch the traffic in SS(vehicular and pedestrian, and bicycle) Then you could offer a firsthand opinion regarding your position on LSV's on 30A. It may be a bit different.
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#165
The state of Florida does not currently allow GAS powered LSV's. They won't be on the road because they won't be registered at the DMV. They won't have tags and they will get pulled over.

I see that many of you say that safety is your primary concern with having these new vehicles on the road. Everyone is speeding to work. Big trucks are going 50-60 mph! Little LSV's are going to get run down because EVERYONE is speeding. Speeding. I think that if your primary concern really was safety... than slow down. Go the speed LIMIT at least. Isn't it safer if we all just go a bit slower anyway? And we are talking a mile here and a mile there...not lowering the speed limit on ALL of 30a.

I feel like we are on the cusp of a very progressive movement here...in a way that is different from most communities. Its hard to deny that there is a world-wide advancement to "green" vehicles, cars and hybrids. Awesome. But 30a is different because of that unique resort-FEEL. (I know there are lots of different resort communities, but Jeffersondavies has a point in that they all FEEL as part of the same community and this forum attests to that.) We CAN do green here like many places can't. We have an opportunity to be progressive and unique. I think LSV's are a step. I think they embrace the lifestyle and genuine quality of life that 30a is known for...

At the very least, it is worth looking into further.

Be careful nr-light. A few of the local forum celebs have decided that LSVs are a "bad idea" and would prefer we not even discuss it. They wish this thread had "died already", b/c it doesn't comport with their viewpoint.

Apparently they prefer SoWal gain notoriety by rolling back the LSV electric vehicle statute - becoming "the New Urbanist town that prefers the Chevy Suburban be used to get around" to Red Bar, Modica, Publix, Angelinas, Yellowfin, Amavida, the Beach, etc."

I would welcome the debate about this, but apparently the New Urbanists who have so far responded have already settled the matter, in their minds - therefore they wish to stop hearing the arguments for making the last 15% of 30A LSV compatible - ad nauseum.
Bob Wells avatar
Bob WellsBeach Fanatic
#166
Dude, please, that horse died long ago and in my opinion, everytime you take a jab at it th SH*T hits the fan. I am glad you have brought your opinion to this forum, but really I think its over at this point.😀
Matt J avatar
Matt JSWGB
#167
Be careful nr-light. A few of the local forum celebs have decided that LSVs are a "bad idea" and would prefer we not even discuss it. They wish this thread had "died already", b/c it doesn't comport with their viewpoint.

Apparently they prefer SoWal gain notoriety by rolling back the LSV electric vehicle statute - becoming "the New Urbanist town that prefers the Chevy Suburban be used to get around" to Red Bar, Modica, Publix, Angelinas, Yellowfin, Amavida, the Beach, etc."

I would welcome the debate about this, but apparently the New Urbanists who have so far responded have already settled the matter, in their minds - therefore they wish to stop hearing the arguments for making the last 15% of 30A LSV compatible - ad nauseum.

We have sowal celebs? I always heard that term and thought of Sheryl Crow, Tony Romo, or Sean Payton.

You keep insinuating that we all want big SUV's driving around. Honestly they're as annoying as LSV's. Everyone who has countered your insane ramblings has also preached using a trolly system, biking, or heaven forbid walking.

The only one doing any "spinning" here is you.
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#168
I think today or tomorrow, or even Wednesday would be a great day for you and robertsondavies to come and sit and watch the traffic in SS(vehicular and pedestrian, and bicycle) Then you could offer a firsthand opinion regarding your position on LSV's on 30A. It may be a bit different.

John R. I will gladly review the situation in person soon. Should Seaside be re-trafficed ?(yank stop signs out, widen the streets, create raised over 30A walkovers for pedestrians) to allow better emergency vehicle access, better pedestrian safety and pedestrian isolation, and much quicke, speedier, and arterial flow of all the large delivery and construction trucks on the 30A Highway? Is that the vision? I'm open to your views on it.

I think a solution to your concerns is a Big Dig, ala Boston, thru Seaside, as well as Rosemary perhaps. Perhaps all of 30A. I would be opposed I think it would obnoxiouisly violate certain tenets of New Urbanism. But it would alleviate a great deal of concerns presented by a number of folks that these damn LSV's get in the way, and are dangerous. It would IMPROVE traffic flow greatly on 30A. It would dial speed up greatly, for all those just tired of all those tourists clogging roads up. It would separate the trucks and cars, from the people, dogs, bikes. It may make it more convenient for the locals in many respescts. But in my view, it would be diametrically opposite to what New Urbanism is supposed to stand for. It would kill 30A IMHO, just like the Interstates killed some of our urban cities in the 60's and 70's.
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#169
We have sowal celebs? I always heard that term and thought of Sheryl Crow, Tony Romo, or Sean Payton.

You keep insinuating that we all want big SUV's driving around. Honestly they're as annoying as LSV's. Everyone who has countered your insane ramblings has also preached using a trolly system, biking, or heaven forbid walking.

The only one doing any "spinning" here is you.

Let's stop insulting, and start debating slowly then.

I'm not insinuating that you really want large SUV's at all. I'm trying to get you to realize the practical impact of your views. The fact that we're all for more exercise, biking or walking etc, is a truism we all share - but has nothing to do with the debate at hand, unless we're talking about making all of 30A a NO power vehicle zone period. I'd be for that, but I don't think that's on the table.

I hope these counterpoints haven't been too convoluted or rambling.
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#170
Dude, please, that horse died long ago and in my opinion, everytime you take a jab at it th SH*T hits the fan. I am glad you have brought your opinion to this forum, but really I think its over at this point.😀

see above, it wasn't me that brought it up. please don't look at this thread anymore if you've put this horse to rest. Also, if you're very very opposed to 30A, and apparently that's an overwhelming majority opinion, that I will totally stand down, and just figure that I'm just plain wrong on this. If that's the case then y'all need to get together, and get rid of Electric LSV's on 30A. I just have this beautiful hilarious picture in my mind of a ceremony where The New Urbanists, now lead by Karl Rove ceremonially demolish an Electric LSV on the town square in Seaside, as the throngs of Republicans from Atlanta look on and cheer.

Checking your forum account

Please wait while we verify your forum account.

New posts