A speed bump on 30A... As citizens strive to lower speed limit, bigger plans emerge | 30a, speed, change - Local News - WaltonSun.com
A SPEED BUMP ON 30A: As citizens strive to lower speed limit, bigger plans emerge
January 08, 2010 10:30 AM
By Matt Algarin
Will 45 be a thing of the past on 30A?
Friends of Scenic 30A and members of the public gathered on Jan. 4 to discuss lowering the speed limit on 30A to 35 mph for the entire 18.5 mile stretch. The change would let low-speed vehicles, like street-modified golf carts, share the roadway with cars.
Bill Freeze, Chairperson for the Friends, believes the change will have nothing but positive end results.
?These beaches have been voted as one of the 12 best places to see in 2010.? Freeze said. ?We have noticed that we need to educate the tourists and the residents about what we have here in paradise.?
Freeze added that LSVs have to be registered and licensed, which will provide additional income for the county.
About two dozen supportive residents and industry experts gathered to hear the proposals made by the group.
In order for an electric cart or LSV to share the roadway with cars, the speed limit can be no greater than 35 mph. There are currently four miles of roadway on 30A where the speed limit is 45 mph.
In addition to allowing LSVs to traverse the roadway, supporters say the change would help to alleviate some of the traffic by encouraging motorists who are in a hurry to use the feeder roads that run north and south to get to their destinations.
Graham Fountain, chief of special operations for the Sheriff?s Office, clarified that this only pertains to electric carts, not golf carts.
?Because it looks like a duck, talks like a duck and quacks like a duck, but it?s a goose,? Fountain said while describing that anyone who is caught driving a gas-powered cart on 30A would be ticketed.
?The sheriff?s office will be taking a neutral position on the topic,? Fountain said of the speed-limit change. ?We haven?t pulled traffic (data) to see how many crashes involved these types of vehicles.?
?We do have some concerns because 30A is a little atypical than the usual roads you may do this on,? Fountain added. ?When the building starts up again on 30A you are going to have a lot more dump trucks and mixers going up and down the road.?
Tim Paul, who is a former district five commissioner and developer of Topsail Village on 30A, said changing the speed limit should be the first step.
?I think the whole idea is to have a complete system,? Pauls said. ?You shouldn?t have to only be able to use your LSV on 30A. You should actually be able to make a useful trip with it.?
Tom Stein, the Director for the Friends of Scenic 30A, agreed.
Stein said he ?has always had a lifetime interest in public transit and was a cable car grip man in San Francisco for four years.
?With my background in public transit and in addition to living here for the past 30 years or so watching the traffic load increase here on 30A,? Stein said, ?it has led me to the conclusion that some kind of public transit needs to be established on 30A.?
Stein said that the time is imminent and that something has to happen now.
The Friends of Scenic 30A will be holding another public forum on the first Monday in February to discuss updates on traffic crashes and the price tag for redesigning 30A for a bike path and low speed vehicles.
SGBSGBBeach FanaticSouth Walton1,034 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
SGBBeach FanaticSouth Walton1,034 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic51,440 views
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Bob WellsBob WellsBeach Fanatic3,380 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
Bob WellsBeach Fanatic3,380 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic:bicycle:
robertsondaviesrobertsondaviesBeach Fanatic500 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
Rdavies, I have checked into this thread on occasion and I get the impression from those posts of yours which I've read that you believe that folks who don't want golf carts on 30a also don't support green initiatives, like big SUVs, are Republicans, are anti new urbanism, are for ridonkulous solutions like over and under passes and are intolerant of opinions different from their own...
Are my assumptions about your assumptions correct?
Thanks for reading. If you're bored or tired of this thread my apologies. I'd like to hear your viewpoint on LSV's GEO. I won't get all emotional one way or the other either.
Before I answer your question, let me first say AGAIN I don't support golf carts on 30A either. please read above. As to your question, I hate to make conclusions/assumptions but since you bring it up... it would actually be that those who are against LSV's now, mostly on stated safety grounds, are actually not Republicans, or Anti-Environmentalists. I suspect that many if not most totally have their heart in the right place on most environmental issues, and view themselves at least as very tolerant etc etc, and probably Democrat to boot. Of course I'm sure opposition comes from both parties here in South Walton, the same way support nationally has come in 48 states now, for PRO LSV statutes.
Anyhhow, if all these silly assumptions are true, it puts the opposition in an odd position here. A conundrum. Where their view on safety goes against New Urbanisms, the Sierra Clubs, most progressives etc... that 30A is safer, when slower. Like in Seaside where its jammed. Sure it looks unsafe, but ask an Insurance Company what the rates are on insuring an LSV in Seaside, and you'll have your answer about safety, lest you think there is some Green conspiracy to hold LSV insurance rates low. I think the people against LSV expansion in Walton County just don't like the inconvenience of having to go a bit slower for 3 of the 18 miles, then they otherwise would, and they THINK despite ample evidence of cheap insurability, that they are UNSAFE. Me, I don't think State Farm and ALL STATE have changed their underwriting standards, to lose money...
NotDeadYetNotDeadYetBeach Fanatic1,416 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
NotDeadYetBeach Fanatic1,416 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach FanaticIt also had a Florida license plate on the back.It's my understanding that if it has a Florida license plate, it meets the state requirements to be considered street legal and is therefore allowed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Matt JMatt JSWGB24,862 postsJoined View profileMessageSWGB
Matt JSWGB24,862 postsJoined View profileMessageSWGBIt's my understanding that if it has a Florida license plate, it meets the state requirements to be considered street legal and is therefore allowed. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Technically I can bolt my license plate to my butt, that doesn't make me street legal.
Matt JMatt JSWGB24,862 postsJoined View profileMessageSWGB
Matt JSWGB24,862 postsJoined View profileMessageSWGBThat stinks that the guy was going that slow. Nice that he pulled over asap though.
Not sure who local purveyors are, but if you google LSV, you'll find many many new corporations being formed, and some old ones tackling the concept. The Sierra Club (fairly well respected I think) supports the LSV, as do 48 State legislatures, but not sure who the local culprit is, exactly - but I plan on paying them a visit soon, to pull down a Tax Credit on one of these asap.
You're missing the point. We have no problems with LSV's within their respective communities such as Rosemary Beach, Seacrest Beach, Alys Beach, or any other community. However, once you start referring to the entirety of 30A as one long resort community you are wrong.
Some friends of ours had an LSV for a while and hated it. It never went fast enough, it never went the speed limit, it randomly lost it's charge, and it was unusable in the rain. They sold it and bought a Jeep.
robertsondaviesrobertsondaviesBeach Fanatic500 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
You're missing the point. We have no problems with LSV's within their respective communities such as Rosemary Beach, Seacrest Beach, Alys Beach, or any other community. However, once you start referring to the entirety of 30A as one long resort community you are wrong.
Some friends of ours had an LSV for a while and hated it. It never went fast enough, it never went the speed limit, it randomly lost it's charge, and it was unusable in the rain. They sold it and bought a Jeep.
OK, sorry for your friends bad LSV. Chrysler is glad to hear you bought a Jeep, and that's fine. Sorry it ran bad. You're missing my (and others above) point about "one long resort", I disagree with your assertion that Rosemary, Seacrest etc, are their OWN communties. On its face, you appear so obviously correct because they are separate "towns" PUDs....but real people don't live inside the pages of PUD brochures, despite the imagery to the contrary.
I'll make the assertion that I don't think that's how 30A functions at all. Quite the opposite. People in Seacrest eat out at Red Bar, and get groceries in Seagrove, and folks in Watercolor, don't eat all their meals at Fish out of Water... (do they? please correct me if I'm wrong here) they eat some at Onano, and Cafe 30A, Bud & Alleys etc. etc....and their fish market is Goatfeathers if they're cooking in, and Yellowfin perhaps if they're a fishin for themselves... no matter what PUD community they're in... No one PUD in SoWal provides nearly enough to hold anyone but Truman's attention for more than a few hours. Sorry to have to dispel that notion that you may hold. You see, folks are leaving their "community" several times a day to get the paper, get tackle, or rent a kayak, or eat out, or get groceries, or take in some music, to exercise, to make pottery... In other words, South Walton is the community in that sense that people DON'T confine their living to their PUD or "on paper" community. Sorry, that's just the thruth, and the truth don't change to fit your view on not allowing LSV's to have the last couple miles of 30A to make it cohesive and attractive for folks to have LSV's in the first place in South Walton.
As someone pointed out bravely above, the very existence of Kurt's website is evidence that at least some, ok most, don't limit their cyber interactions to their less than square mile PUD town - sorry.
robertsondaviesrobertsondaviesBeach Fanatic500 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
Now, having said, I will never support LSV's that are too slow (i.e. can't go at least high 30MPH etc), or ones that are driven recklessly, with 4 year olds tied to the hood, and a cat driving the damn thing etc... send those folks to jail, the same way you'd send the Meth head/drunk/teen driving their Suburban down 30A to jail - j"accord completement.
My views supporting enhancing 30A's 3 non-LSV's compliant miles, to make them LSV usable are still intact, but I view 30A as even MORE congested over the next 30 years, (i.e. more Seaside like stop signs etc), not less, so going 30MPH is going to be the norm anyway.
Aside from my support of proper and considerate Electric Neighborhood Elec. Vehicle usage, I would be an even stronger proponent of a TROLLEY of some sort on 30A, that runs up and down 30A from noon to midnight- I think that's something we all can agree on, its just a funding question - It sucks that it wouldn't apparently be self sustaining business.
Let's move this discussion away from the LSV discussion, and let's really think about what South Walton means as far being a Community. Is South Walton not a community? Is it simply a loose association of separate, distinct, contained, and proximate communities whose relationship with each other is geographic more than relational. Is this one "long" community as some assert? Is it not? Let's ellicit some answers from all over the different planned and unplanned developments along 30A through this website, shall we?
My views supporting enhancing 30A's 3 non-LSV's compliant miles, to make them LSV usable are still intact, but I view 30A as even MORE congested over the next 30 years, (i.e. more Seaside like stop signs etc), not less, so going 30MPH is going to be the norm anyway.
Aside from my support of proper and considerate Electric Neighborhood Elec. Vehicle usage, I would be an even stronger proponent of a TROLLEY of some sort on 30A, that runs up and down 30A from noon to midnight- I think that's something we all can agree on, its just a funding question - It sucks that it wouldn't apparently be self sustaining business.
Let's move this discussion away from the LSV discussion, and let's really think about what South Walton means as far being a Community. Is South Walton not a community? Is it simply a loose association of separate, distinct, contained, and proximate communities whose relationship with each other is geographic more than relational. Is this one "long" community as some assert? Is it not? Let's ellicit some answers from all over the different planned and unplanned developments along 30A through this website, shall we?
GeoGeoBeach FanaticSanta Rosa Beach, FL2,740 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
GeoBeach FanaticSanta Rosa Beach, FL2,740 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach FanaticAgreed that it is the norm to move about 30a with destinations in multiple beachtowns on any given day. But I still agree with what I believe was the underlying point- that the street legal golf carts make more sense within one resort area or beachtown (e.g. Seaside, Rosemary, etc) than they do making a trip from my place near Ed Walline to Red Bar.
John RJohn Rneeds to get out moreConflictinator6,782 postsJoined View profileMessageneeds to get out more
John Rneeds to get out moreConflictinator6,782 postsJoined View profileMessageneeds to get out moreBack to my point regarding distractions; I was distracted yesterday by the sight of two girls on one of the rental scooters cruising at speed on the sidewalk of 30A at Live Oak. Adding more non impact rated, doorless, without internal rollcage vehicles to the mix has me scratching my head.
Let's face it, an LSV is a sooped up golf cart, designed, imho, as a convenience vehicle to navigate on the street to the grocery store, etc and not be backing up the traffic. I don't believe they are intended to be used as a primary means of transport, and someone traveling the length of 30A requires a lot more than an LSV is able to provide. I wouldn't want to be in one for the roundtrip of Rosemary beach to the Red Bar and back, but that's just me.
Let's face it, an LSV is a sooped up golf cart, designed, imho, as a convenience vehicle to navigate on the street to the grocery store, etc and not be backing up the traffic. I don't believe they are intended to be used as a primary means of transport, and someone traveling the length of 30A requires a lot more than an LSV is able to provide. I wouldn't want to be in one for the roundtrip of Rosemary beach to the Red Bar and back, but that's just me.
Matt JMatt JSWGB24,862 postsJoined View profileMessageSWGB
Matt JSWGB24,862 postsJoined View profileMessageSWGBSaw one running through a 45 MPH area today and then saw one on the bike path. Final one tonight was literally crawling through WaterColor with dim headlights and going about 2MPH.
30A Skunkape30A SkunkapeSkunkyBackatown Seagrove10,329 postsJoined View profileMessageSkunky
30A SkunkapeSkunkyBackatown Seagrove10,329 postsJoined View profileMessageSkunkyBUSTED!!!:rolling::clap:
We were heading west on 30-A today. Leaving Watercolor, we could see a bunch of cars on the Western Lake segment ahead along with flashing police lights. At first I thought there was a wreck, but then as we got closer it became clear as to what was going on. A golf cart was leading a line of no less than 20, and probably more like 30 cars eastbound on 30-A. Lord only knows how long that cart was on the highway. Anyway, the cop had his lights flashing in hot pursuit;cars pulled over to let him through until he was tail-grabbin that golf cart:funn:
I saw the cart turn into the first drive in Watercolor to surrender and just couldn't let it go without a photo for funn's sake. Do you know these lost golfers? I hope they get no 'mulligan' from the deputy and get the book thrown at them:floor:
We were heading west on 30-A today. Leaving Watercolor, we could see a bunch of cars on the Western Lake segment ahead along with flashing police lights. At first I thought there was a wreck, but then as we got closer it became clear as to what was going on. A golf cart was leading a line of no less than 20, and probably more like 30 cars eastbound on 30-A. Lord only knows how long that cart was on the highway. Anyway, the cop had his lights flashing in hot pursuit;cars pulled over to let him through until he was tail-grabbin that golf cart:funn:
I saw the cart turn into the first drive in Watercolor to surrender and just couldn't let it go without a photo for funn's sake. Do you know these lost golfers? I hope they get no 'mulligan' from the deputy and get the book thrown at them:floor:
nr lightnr lightBeach ComberDestin, FL24 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Comber
nr lightBeach ComberDestin, FL24 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach ComberI like your new profile image there, rdavies.
its a shame that a couple geese screw things up for the whole gander sometimes. But does that mean we should eliminate the possibility of change based on a select few? There are bad drivers. (lets eliminate cars!) There are drunk drivers (lets eliminate booze!) There's inconsiderate bikers (lets eliminate bikes!) No, this is not how things work. We are supposed to consider what is best for a community and then figure out how to make it work. It is so disappointing to see so many closed-minded individuals when there are so many opportunities out there.
Someone made a point earlier that I don't live out on 30a. They insinuate that I don't UNDERSTAND what its like to have these little carts buzzing around the community and in traffic. Pssh! I live in Crystal Beach! I live off scenic 98! These carts are cruising all over the place! You drive for 5 minutes and I'll bet you'll count at least 10. And you know what? I love it. I drive on scenic 98 because I know I am going to go slower. I know that people are going to be looking at the beach, the condos, the bikini's...and I EXPECT it. I choose to take that road to work for many of the same reasons. Its a shame when people act stupid on those things, I agree. I want to yell out my window at them to behave, but there are a lot of home owners who use them too and use them right.
I know saying anything at all is probably pointless. Perhaps this topic has reached a dead end. But in respect to those FOR and to those AGAINST LSV's on the road, I am so glad to see a discussion about it. We need to take this discussion further. Lets discuss what is working and what we are willing to make work. Instead of "no no no I don't like change or being inconvenienced" lets discuss what we ARE willing to live with. (Because truth of the matter is, these things are legal, they are out there, and we will be living with them.)
its a shame that a couple geese screw things up for the whole gander sometimes. But does that mean we should eliminate the possibility of change based on a select few? There are bad drivers. (lets eliminate cars!) There are drunk drivers (lets eliminate booze!) There's inconsiderate bikers (lets eliminate bikes!) No, this is not how things work. We are supposed to consider what is best for a community and then figure out how to make it work. It is so disappointing to see so many closed-minded individuals when there are so many opportunities out there.
Someone made a point earlier that I don't live out on 30a. They insinuate that I don't UNDERSTAND what its like to have these little carts buzzing around the community and in traffic. Pssh! I live in Crystal Beach! I live off scenic 98! These carts are cruising all over the place! You drive for 5 minutes and I'll bet you'll count at least 10. And you know what? I love it. I drive on scenic 98 because I know I am going to go slower. I know that people are going to be looking at the beach, the condos, the bikini's...and I EXPECT it. I choose to take that road to work for many of the same reasons. Its a shame when people act stupid on those things, I agree. I want to yell out my window at them to behave, but there are a lot of home owners who use them too and use them right.
I know saying anything at all is probably pointless. Perhaps this topic has reached a dead end. But in respect to those FOR and to those AGAINST LSV's on the road, I am so glad to see a discussion about it. We need to take this discussion further. Lets discuss what is working and what we are willing to make work. Instead of "no no no I don't like change or being inconvenienced" lets discuss what we ARE willing to live with. (Because truth of the matter is, these things are legal, they are out there, and we will be living with them.)
robertsondaviesrobertsondaviesBeach Fanatic500 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
I like your new profile image there, rdavies.
its a shame that a couple geese screw things up for the whole gander sometimes. But does that mean we should eliminate the possibility of change based on a select few? There are bad drivers. (lets eliminate cars!) There are drunk drivers (lets eliminate booze!) There's inconsiderate bikers (lets eliminate bikes!) No, this is not how things work. We are supposed to consider what is best for a community and then figure out how to make it work. It is so disappointing to see so many closed-minded individuals when there are so many opportunities out there.
Someone made a point earlier that I don't live out on 30a. They insinuate that I don't UNDERSTAND what its like to have these little carts buzzing around the community and in traffic. Pssh! I live in Crystal Beach! I live off scenic 98! These carts are cruising all over the place! You drive for 5 minutes and I'll bet you'll count at least 10. And you know what? I love it. I drive on scenic 98 because I know I am going to go slower. I know that people are going to be looking at the beach, the condos, the bikini's...and I EXPECT it. I choose to take that road to work for many of the same reasons. Its a shame when people act stupid on those things, I agree. I want to yell out my window at them to behave, but there are a lot of home owners who use them too and use them right.
I know saying anything at all is probably pointless. Perhaps this topic has reached a dead end. But in respect to those FOR and to those AGAINST LSV's on the road, I am so glad to see a discussion about it. We need to take this discussion further. Lets discuss what is working and what we are willing to make work. Instead of "no no no I don't like change or being inconvenienced" lets discuss what we ARE willing to live with. (Because truth of the matter is, these things are legal, they are out there, and we will be living with them.)
Thanks, obviously I happen to agree with your overarching point, but also am happy to see more people like yourself supportive of the DISCUSSION that ought to be happening here - I'm now highly interested in shifting the discussion to what another posted pointed out above - that SoWal, as a community portal itself, is evidence that 30A is in ACTUALITY a real community, not a collection of co-existent independent Planned Unit Developments - It's a topic worthy of an even lengthier string than this one, and it encompasses the LSV discussion within it as one component.
robertsondaviesrobertsondaviesBeach Fanatic500 postsJoined View profileMessageBeach Fanatic
Agreed that it is the norm to move about 30a with destinations in multiple beachtowns on any given day. But I still agree with what I believe was the underlying point- that the street legal golf carts make more sense within one resort area or beachtown (e.g. Seaside, Rosemary, etc) than they do making a trip from my place near Ed Walline to Red Bar.
GEO, I can appreciate that Ed Walline to Red Bar is probably a bit far for a bare bones, barely compliant LSV. I don't mind a bit of excitement myself, I may give it a run, if I had one that went at least 30MPH... but that's me. Others like yourself might want a kick ass purpose built $15,000 LSV to make that run. Fair enough though - you make your point, and appreciate your response to my question about how 30A actually functions, despite your prefernce that folks get around and run errands with full size vehicles.
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