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Lowering the speed limit on 30A?

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A speed bump on 30A... As citizens strive to lower speed limit, bigger plans emerge | 30a, speed, change - Local News - WaltonSun.com


A SPEED BUMP ON 30A: As citizens strive to lower speed limit, bigger plans emerge
January 08, 2010 10:30 AM
By Matt Algarin

Will 45 be a thing of the past on 30A?

Friends of Scenic 30A and members of the public gathered on Jan. 4 to discuss lowering the speed limit on 30A to 35 mph for the entire 18.5 mile stretch. The change would let low-speed vehicles, like street-modified golf carts, share the roadway with cars.

Bill Freeze, Chairperson for the Friends, believes the change will have nothing but positive end results.

?These beaches have been voted as one of the 12 best places to see in 2010.? Freeze said. ?We have noticed that we need to educate the tourists and the residents about what we have here in paradise.?

Freeze added that LSVs have to be registered and licensed, which will provide additional income for the county.

About two dozen supportive residents and industry experts gathered to hear the proposals made by the group.

In order for an electric cart or LSV to share the roadway with cars, the speed limit can be no greater than 35 mph. There are currently four miles of roadway on 30A where the speed limit is 45 mph.

In addition to allowing LSVs to traverse the roadway, supporters say the change would help to alleviate some of the traffic by encouraging motorists who are in a hurry to use the feeder roads that run north and south to get to their destinations.

Graham Fountain, chief of special operations for the Sheriff?s Office, clarified that this only pertains to electric carts, not golf carts.

?Because it looks like a duck, talks like a duck and quacks like a duck, but it?s a goose,? Fountain said while describing that anyone who is caught driving a gas-powered cart on 30A would be ticketed.

?The sheriff?s office will be taking a neutral position on the topic,? Fountain said of the speed-limit change. ?We haven?t pulled traffic (data) to see how many crashes involved these types of vehicles.?

?We do have some concerns because 30A is a little atypical than the usual roads you may do this on,? Fountain added. ?When the building starts up again on 30A you are going to have a lot more dump trucks and mixers going up and down the road.?

Tim Paul, who is a former district five commissioner and developer of Topsail Village on 30A, said changing the speed limit should be the first step.

?I think the whole idea is to have a complete system,? Pauls said. ?You shouldn?t have to only be able to use your LSV on 30A. You should actually be able to make a useful trip with it.?

Tom Stein, the Director for the Friends of Scenic 30A, agreed.

Stein said he ?has always had a lifetime interest in public transit and was a cable car grip man in San Francisco for four years.

?With my background in public transit and in addition to living here for the past 30 years or so watching the traffic load increase here on 30A,? Stein said, ?it has led me to the conclusion that some kind of public transit needs to be established on 30A.?

Stein said that the time is imminent and that something has to happen now.

The Friends of Scenic 30A will be holding another public forum on the first Monday in February to discuss updates on traffic crashes and the price tag for redesigning 30A for a bike path and low speed vehicles.

Replies

285
John R avatar
John Rneeds to get out more
#202
Even if the 30A speed limit is lowered to 35, the max allowable speed of LSV's is 25. So by Robertsondavies' logic, the speed limit of 30A will effectively be 25mph for it's entire length. So, will you next advocate pulloff's be installed so traffic can get by the golfcarts that can't even hit the new lower speed limit?
AndrewG avatar
AndrewGBeach Fanatic
#203
I believe LSV's can only travel on stretches of roads with a posted 35mph or less. I would hope they would install more pull offs. You do realize 35mph is the Speed Limit. 36 mph is illegal but 25 mph isn't
John R avatar
John Rneeds to get out more
#204
I believe LSV's can only travel on stretches of roads with a posted 35mph or less. I would hope they would install more pull offs. You do realize 35mph is the Speed Limit. 36 mph is illegal but 25 mph isn't

Yes, i understand what limit means. There are high and low limits. Traveling the length of 30a at 25mph may not be entirely safe.
AndrewG avatar
AndrewGBeach Fanatic
#205
25MPH falls within the legal speed of a 35MPH posted zone.

I don't think any speed is entirely safe.
nr light avatar
nr lightBeach Comber
#206
I disagree about LSV's not being safe. Only licensed drivers are allowed to drive them.
The Florida restrictions on LSV's are the tighest in the Country. The 25 mph limit is required because it's been extensively tested to be safe. Motorcycles are much more dangerous if safety is your concern. As i said before I'm much more worried about standard vehicles driving way over the speed limit.

As the 45mph zones develop it will be reduced to 35mph so it's really a moot issue. I can see why LSV owners would want legal access to all of 30-A sooner rather than later. It's going to happen anyways unless State law is revised.

Those afraid of change coming to 30-A should be more concerned about the Chain restaurants coming to 98. If the airport is a big success change will happen even quicker. It seems futile to fight the inevitable. Try to start dealing with it. You have to pick and choose your battles.


Glad you're in this conversation Andrew -



Some people seem to think that the fact that LSVs don't have doors it must be more unsafe than say......a motorcycle? A JEEP? It seems to me that people are grasping at air with the "safety" argument. There's no helmet law in florida either, what about that? Here's the bottom line, if youre so concerned with the safety of the drivers and passengers in these vehicles DON'T RUN THEM DOWN. its not DOORS that dictate how safe a vehicle is. Speed. Speed at impact. Speed of other vehicles.
I'm not saying that all people are safe drivers - not saying all LSV drivers are safe drivers...I am saying, however, is that if you want each other safe, drive safely NO MATTER THE VEHICLE.
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#207
Even if the 30A speed limit is lowered to 35, the max allowable speed of LSV's is 25. So by Robertsondavies' logic, the speed limit of 30A will effectively be 25mph for it's entire length. So, will you next advocate pulloff's be installed so traffic can get by the golfcarts that can't even hit the new lower speed limit?

Whats wrong with 3 miles of lower speed limits on 30As? I thought y'all said it was all about safety... errr was that convenience, i can't remember? Lower the whole damn thing to 25MPH I say, because I'm all about safety.

Like the NR Light said here, safety is all related to SPEED and Mass at impact basically. From an insurance companies perspective - If there werent' so many flipping 6000 lb (tax deduction elligible) SUV's in South Walton, the rates to drive an LSV in South Walton would be even lower then the low rates already given to these unbelievably safe vehicles. The best part about the LSV, is that, by weighing a fraction of the regular SUV or Car, and by going 30% slower, they're safe as all hell for everyone else in the community. Oh, but the opponents know more than insurance companies on safety and the Sierra club on the Environment... at least if it means they'll have to go a little slower for 3 miles of 30A a few times for someone other than those bikers that NEVER pull over.
John R avatar
John Rneeds to get out more
#208
So you will single hand-idly get rid of the SUV's also? Will you keep the second home owner, or tourist from out of state, off of 30A if their car isn't agreeable to you. Sure, LSV's are safe, if they're all that's on the road, and the bikers. But your utopia can never exist. Eventually, one will get plowed by the unprepared driver of the 6000lb vehicle, and we'll get to revisit this side of the debate, again. I hope it's no one I know.
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#209
So you will single hand-idly get rid of the SUV's also? Will you keep the second home owner, or tourist from out of state, off of 30A if their car isn't agreeable to you. Sure, LSV's are safe, if they're all that's on the road, and the bikers. But your utopia can never exist. Eventually, one will get plowed by the unprepared driver of the 6000lb vehicle, and we'll get to revisit this side of the debate, again. I hope it's no one I know.

"But your utopia can never exist" - ah, but can't we try.

"sure, LSV's are safe" - we're progressing here, this is good.

"Eventually, one will get plowed... " True, you're right on the money. Eventually, also a Tahoe will hit a Biker, as will a pedestrian, but I don't plan on outlawing bikers or pedestrians, I hope they are no one I know either of course"

Should Florida Outlaw convertibles ? They're ACTUALLY less safe, instead of more safe than an LSV, ask an Insurance adjuster. I say keep them.
AndrewG avatar
AndrewGBeach Fanatic
#210
This isn't about banning vehicles. In fact it's the exact opposite. We want all vehicles to have access.

So John since larger vehicles are much deadlier because they cause more damage and destruction when involved in any accident, and you're focused on safety... Seems the larger vehicles are the problem.

I want to buy an LSV now.
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#211
This isn't about banning vehicles. In fact it's the exact opposite. We want all vehicles to have access.

So John since larger vehicles are much deadlier because they cause more damage and destruction when involved in any accident, and you're focused on safety... Seems the larger vehicles are the problem.

I want to buy an LSV now.

This isn't about safety really to the naysayers. Safety is just the last good thing to fall back on, when it's fairly clear most environmental groups support LSV usage. What they really want is to be able to go 55 or 60MPH, on those last tiny stretches of 45MPH on 30A, and don't want to slow down for 1 Minute for an LSV going 30 on those tiny stretches.

What they really want is quick convenience, - let's not kid ourselves.
graytonphotographerBeach Crab
#212
I really dont think its a good idea. Youve got to think about the people that MUST drive on it everyday. It would then be a slower commute to where they have to go. Sure people could drive golf carts on the road, but 35 mph. Thats to slow for a small highway.
Lake EasternBeach Lover
#213
Please realize that there are still folks who need to get to work and aren't here on vacation. There are long stretches of 30-A that just do not need to be 35 mph. I still regret the planners didn't listen to oldtimers like Gene Wesley when they requested a 3rd lane for turning before they gave up the easements along 30A.
AndrewG avatar
AndrewGBeach Fanatic
#214
You're just going to have a take a different route or plan ahead and leave earlier. 30-a is not a highway anymore if it ever was. Young kids frequently ride bikes, walk right next to it. Everything about 30-A is slowing it down for safety reasons.

There are 3 different cut ins to 30-A from 98 now not including the ends.
John R avatar
John Rneeds to get out more
#215
This isn't about safety really to the naysayers. Safety is just the last good thing to fall back on, when it's fairly clear most environmental groups support LSV usage. What they really want is to be able to go 55 or 60MPH, on those last tiny stretches of 45MPH on 30A, and don't want to slow down for 1 Minute for an LSV going 30 on those tiny stretches.

What they really want is quick convenience, - let's not kid ourselves.

robertsondavies, you've been using a very broad brush with your use of they. Please don't presume to know my motivation(s). If I want quick convenience, I use 98. But I live here and require use of 30A daily, I know the perils of my decisions. I believe you don't live here. Is that correct?
Matt J avatar
Matt JSWGB
#216
30A is a highway, ever notice the sign? It's a County Highway sign. I'm betting most people don't know that 30A used to run along the beach through WaterColor and Grayton? What is now Blue Mountain Beach Road used to be a section of 30A.

Just putting a penny on the tracks.
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#217
30A is a highway, ever notice the sign? It's a County Highway sign. I'm betting most people don't know that 30A used to run along the beach through WaterColor and Grayton? What is now Blue Mountain Beach Road used to be a section of 30A.

Just putting a penny on the tracks.

Sorry, 30A is not a 'hwy' despite its name. There are stop signs in Seaside that would indicate to a reasonable person standard, that its not. and I support those stop signs by the way - obviously the crowd here that can't go a little slower for 2 miles on the Deer Lake stretch would also have been against putting 2 stop signs in Seaside, which effectively lowers your average speed through Seaside, to below 15MPH, counting the stops.

Why not just take Seaside itself out... it would speed up your trip times - take the tourism out? I say the "convenience" of locals trip times is a necessary victim to the area being a vacation resort area. Sorry to locals who are really peeved by that

All those in favor of keeping the random stop signs on 30A like those in Seaside, say AYE.
robertsondaviesBeach Fanatic
#218
robertsondavies, you've been using a very broad brush with your use of they. Please don't presume to know my motivation(s). If I want quick convenience, I use 98. But I live here and require use of 30A daily, I know the perils of my decisions. I believe you don't live here. Is that correct?

ok, enlighten me. What is your specific motivation again why you can't have LSV's travel on the 2 mile stretch at Deer Lake state park on 30A, like the State has wisely allowed everywhere else south of 98?

Maybe its the case that you're not striving for a bit of extra convenience that speeding through that stretch provides - remind me what makes your argument distinct from the broad brush that was so dangerously wielded by me. LOL

What is your motivation?

please don't say "safety" willy nilly, because for example 'one time' you saw a 14 year old driving one. Unless you've got the goods to refute what 10 years of Actuaries from insurance companies empirically know about LSV's then go to your next reason please. We who support LSV' use expansion, would like to fully consider all arguments against it.

keep the dialogue going. I meant no disrespect by my use of the term "THEY" - really. I was categorizing unfairly perhaps - lets stick to the issues here (myself included) all.

1. Is 30A a cohesive resort area, or not?
2. Should the last couple miles of 30A be made LSV compatible by reducing the speed limit thereon from 45 to 35?

3. Should bikers, helmetless pedestrians and LSV's been banned from the HIGHWAY 30A altogether, reserving it to be the last bastion of speedy thoroughfare for construction trucks, delivery trucks, and heavy artillery?
Geo avatar
GeoBeach Fanatic
#219
Rdavies,
FTLOG, Highway 30a is a highway, road, street, etc.

It matters not what you semantically care to define it.

No one believes we should remove stop signs where they make sense.

This IS a safety issue.

I will gladly step forward and say that I personally don't want to slow down on the stretch of highway 30a that has a posted speed limit of 45mph so someone can ride their street legal golfcart or LSV on the highway.

This isn't a proSUV, gas guzzling, anti-environment rant.
AndrewG avatar
AndrewGBeach Fanatic
#220
There is an exponential decrease in deaths as speed limits decrease. By reducing the speeds on 30-A lives will be saved. What would Jesus do? You have to do the right thing and change the status quo.

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