Customary Use and Our 30A Legacy

Beach Lover

Apr 25, '19 · 7:46 AM526,4952

When you see a PCB or Destin bumper sticker, what thought immediately comes to mind? Probably same for all of us with any time spent here - nice, but it ain’t 30A! Do you remember why you started renting/visiting here? What was it? Remember when you bought your first 30A property? Why here?
Because it was DIFFERENT, right? Remember the words you used to describe it to family and friends as you invited them here? “Private” “Quiet” “Intimate” “Less crowded”. That wasn’t by accident. The entire genetic code of Sowal beaches is because of the private ownership and neighborhood beach personalities.
You could rent “private beach”. You could buy “private beach”. There wasn’t a free for all frat party atmosphere because of unlimited public beach access on the sands. That behavior was regulated by the privately owned property where such behavior was immediately squelched. And yet, by custom, no one was ever “Kicked off” of private beaches because owners don’t do that unless bad actors abuse the privilege.
Walton County has always had more than 50% PUBLIC beach. Still does. That hasn’t changed. There are now deliberately misleading fear tactics out there with scary words like “Quiet Title” and “Privatization”, neither of which have affected one single square inch of public beach, not one. Yet, the mob mentality, orchestrated by local carnival barkers eager for fame and notoriety, and dollars, have mislead the citizens and deliberately tried to divide the community in a shell game of Customary Use.
The fact is that the county outran the capabilities of local Commissioners to plan for growth 20 years ago, and we haven’t improved that talent to deal with it even yet. So the County, in failing to plan beach availability, tried to illegally claim private property as public, without following the laws requiring judicial oversight. The local Good Ol’ Boys overreached their authority and got caught by the adults in Tallahassee. So they then decides to sue 4,800 of Sowal citizens to take their property. That’s right, your tax money is being spent, and a lot of it, to SUE almost 5,000 of your neighbors, and steal what they agreed to purchase at a premium, and have a deed to prove it.
Don’t blame them please, they didn’t want or ask for this fight. They live here and care for these beaches just like you and me. Go meet them, they are truly the eclectic fabric of 30A. The signs they had to put up are just in defense of this new orchestrated public attack against them.
The bottom line is this: The minute you release the public to occupy all of Sowal beaches, you IMMEDIATELY get nasty Destin and PCB problems. How will you feel about that 30A sticker then? Nostalgic? Me too.

Replies

2,312

Beach LoverAuthor

Apr 30, '19 · 4:25 PM#52

How can there be respect when the public is called an "ignorant,emotional mob"?

Good question, fair enough. Here's why we are at odds; By now you've all seen the "Baby Mooners" social media blitz. You all have your opinion on what happened, right? What if you talked to the ACTUAL witnesses and found out the following FACTS that anonymous sources very close to the situation are saying;
What if The couple set up in front of chairs on private property?
What if They were quietly and politely approached?
What if They were informed that in order to stay on that particular private property, they were invited to please move behind the owners chairs, or to the side, just down beach a little?
What if They politely agreed and immediately moved as suggested?
What if that was it, done, finished, Everyone was happy?
What if the HOA has a long standing policy of not removing respectful visitors, like this couple?
What if Then, a frequent trespasser inserted herself and started videotaping, and created a scene?
What if She approached the by now content couple, and started yelling?
What if She summoned the complainant and challenged her private property rights?
What if She repeated “Call the cops, call the cops, call the cops”?
What if Meanwhile, she called and yelled for her friends to come and get into the pictures and video?
What if The sheriff was called/notified of the loud woman in the black hat creating a scene, NOT the young couple?
What if they responded and wrote a report of above?
What then? Still feel the same about the emotional response to a non event?
Jodi, the image here, and every time we see this on private property, is sourced directly from the leaders of this movement. But since they block any alternate views and access to all of their social media sites, no one ever hears the other, sometimes quite different, side of the story. It is generally agreed upon opinion that this censored public and emotional voice creates a mob mentality, on purpose. Luckily, there is this forum where we can have intelligent discourse. We can surely do better.

SoWal Insider

Apr 30, '19 · 4:43 PM#53

You are getting a bit over-heated about ONE INCIDENT that obviously has two opposing versions. There have probably been hundreds of incidents in the last few years that have unfolded in multiple ways, some worse, some better. In reality, all this hot air doesn’t solve anything. The issue is now in the court system BECAUSE of HR631. The BFO’s obviously have an army of high powered, high dollar lawyers and the issue has probably been decided behind closed doors just like every decision made in this county. Your badgering doesn’t much matter, does it?

Beach LoverAuthor

Apr 30, '19 · 4:57 PM#54

You are getting a bit over-heated about ONE INCIDENT that obviously has two opposing versions. There have probably been hundreds of incidents in the last few years that have unfolded in multiple ways, some worse, some better. In reality, all this hot air doesn’t solve anything. The issue is now in the court system BECAUSE of HR631. The BFO’s obviously have an army of high powered, high dollar lawyers and the issue has probably been decided behind closed doors just like every decision made in this county. Your badgering doesn’t much matter, does it?

A little daylight on the beach is good for the soul. Don’t forget, property owners are being sued, they did not start this. They either hire defense attorneys or lose family fortunes innocently invested in private property.

SoWal Insider

Apr 30, '19 · 5:04 PM#55

A little daylight on the beach is good for the soul. Don’t forget, property owners are being sued, they did not start this. They either hire defense attorneys or lose family fortunes innocently invested in private property.

...”lose family fortunes” ? Wow! That’s a stretch. I thought this was about one right out of their bundle of rights which was never included when they bought their bundle of rights because it was superseded by the ancient human right of customary use. I didn’t know these poor people were in danger of losing their family fortunes. Oh please continue your badgering, by all means.

Beach Fanatic

Apr 30, '19 · 5:38 PM#56

The property owners are the ones that sued first....turn about is fair play. As for them "losing family fortunes"...maybe they should have in vested in gold instead of an over-priced beach house.

Beach Fanatic

Apr 30, '19 · 6:11 PM#57

lose family fortunes innocently invested in private property.

Yeah that's like never happened to anyone around here.

Feeling cute, might invest in real estate...idk.

Beach LoverAuthor

Apr 30, '19 · 8:04 PM#58

Is there anyone that would like to read the premise of this original post, and then have an intelligent conversation about the actual historical facts of this county mismanagement? We could avoid the knee jerk talking points that are based on a slash and burn agenda, and the onslaught of misinformation as evidenced above? It’s like nobody read the original post, or can’t follow the history? Or maybe there is no desire to have a legitimate discourse?
Standing by...................................................

Beach Fanatic

Apr 30, '19 · 8:33 PM#59

Is there anyone that would like to read the premise of this original post, and then have an intelligent conversation about the actual historical facts of this county mismanagement? We could avoid the knee jerk talking points that are based on a slash and burn agenda, and the onslaught of misinformation as evidenced above? It’s like nobody read the original post, or can’t follow the history? Or maybe there is no desire to have a legitimate discourse?
Standing by...................................................

Impossible request. I would wager dollars to donuts that the majority of Walton County residents disagree with the original post ( and most likely those that folllow) in it's entirety. Not to mention the condecending and derogitory content. But feel free, as is your perogative, to keep fanning the flames.

I assure you that this is a true bi-partisan issue and we are overwhelmingly united on this specific topic.

Beach Fanatic

Apr 30, '19 · 8:50 PM#60

Food for thought:

With Walton County's record of enforcing ordinances, codes, and other regulations, would YOU want Walton County to control your property?

Perhaps the public shouldn't equate protecting a private property right (ejectment) with not wanting anyone on their property.

Beach LoverAuthor

May 1, '19 · 6:40 AM#61

Impossible request. I would wager dollars to donuts that the majority of Walton County residents disagree with the original post ( and most likely those that folllow) in it's entirety. Not to mention the condecending and derogitory content. But feel free, as is your perogative, to keep fanning the flames.

I assure you that this is a true bi-partisan issue and we are overwhelmingly united on this specific topic.

That was the entire rationale for this post. The majority of citizens are being fed false facts. Without any avenue, anywhere, for a more fact based news flow, people are too busy to research the reality of the beach dilemma. There is a one sided echo chamber on social media and local news that censors the information that the public sees.
I would applaud the admins of this site for allowing this discussion to continue. This might be the first time that we’ve had this extensive amount of pro Constitutional property rights discussion allowed online or in print with a significant Walton audience. Normally, the true facts and property rights post is deleted, and the poster blocked from participating in the discussion. Thank you!

SoWal Insider

May 1, '19 · 8:16 AM#62

That was the entire rationale for this post. The majority of citizens are being fed false facts. Without any avenue, anywhere, for a more fact based news flow, people are too busy to research the reality of the beach dilemma. There is a one sided echo chamber on social media and local news that censors the information that the public sees.
I would applaud the admins of this site for allowing this discussion to continue. This might be the first time that we’ve had this extensive amount of pro Constitutional property rights discussion allowed online or in print with a significant Walton audience. Normally, the true facts and property rights post is deleted, and the poster blocked from participating in the discussion. Thank you!

“The majority of the people are being fed false facts”. Where do you get this gem of disinformation? The majority of the people have been enjoying the freedom of these beaches for hundreds of years in peace and tranquility. For someone who has just arrived, you seem to think you are full of facts. Please tell me what the beaches were like in 1983? Were there people using the beach who did not have a deed to the property they walked on. Duh.

Beach LoverAuthor

May 1, '19 · 8:30 AM#63

“The majority of the people are being fed false facts”. Where do you get this gem of disinformation? The majority of the people have been enjoying the freedom of these beaches for hundreds of years in peace and tranquility. For someone who has just arrived, you seem to think you are full of facts. Please tell me what the beaches were like in 1983? Were there people using the beach who did not have a deed to the property they walked on. Duh.

I arrived here in 1991, 28 years ago. So I can't speak to 1983. But every year since, as my original post describes, we've all enjoyed 30A charm together. See, we agree! And even today, May 1, 2019, there will be hundreds of people using private beach without deed in hand. On June 1 it will be thousands. On July 1, it will be tens of thousands. As it should be. Unfortunately, the more attacks on private owners, the more signs.
You ask about false facts...
Saying public beach has been converted to private is false fact
Saying Quiet Title converted public to private is false fact
Saying HB 631 caused privatization is false fact
Saying HB 631 caused signs and ropes is false fact
Saying Customary Use has always been in effect is false fact
Saying Beachfront Property Owners don't pay taxes on property is false fact
Saying private beaches are something new is false fact
Those are all hard and true facts of law, supported by legal documents.
Which of those needs further discussion?

Edited May 1, '19 · 9:04 AM

SoWal Insider

May 1, '19 · 9:15 AM#64

I arrived here in 1991, 28 years ago. So I can't speak to 1983. But every year since, as my original post describes, we've all enjoyed 30A charm together. See, we agree! And even today, May 1, 2019, there will be hundreds of people using private beach without deed in hand. On June 1 it will be thousands. On July 1, it will be tens of thousands. As it should be. Unfortunately, the more attacks on private owners, the more signs.
You ask about false facts...
Saying public beach has been converted to private is false fact
Saying Quiet Title converted public to private is false fact
Saying HB 631 caused privatization is false fact
Saying HB 631 caused signs and ropes is false fact
Saying Customary Use has always been in effect is false fact
Saying Beachfront Property Owners don't pay taxes on property is false fact
Saying private beaches are something new is false fact
Those are all hard and true facts of law, supported by legal documents.
Which of those needs further discussion?

I arrived at these beaches in 1959 so I can attest to the customary use of these beaches and have photographic proof, site specific and general. The Right Of Customary Use does not “come into effect”. The Right has existed from the customary use that had been evident and documented. It seems curious to me that you have been enjoying these beaches since the early 90’s and yet just got on this website a few days ago. If you had been following SoWal for the last couple decades you would be more informed about the evidence of customary use and the feelings of the majority of beach goers in this area.

Beach Fanatic

May 1, '19 · 9:47 AM#65

Teresa,

No one is attacking private owners. They are part of our community and most are great and also support customary use of our beaches.

Alternative facts are not facts.

Care to elaborate fact by fact as listed by Reggie? It might help some of us to understand your viewpoint.

Oh, and to suggest that most "private owners" (assuming you mean BFOs) support customary use of the beach (not "our" as you suggest else we wouldn't be having this discussion) is a little disingenuous - this fact supported by the number of owners who have filed motion to intervene.

Edited May 1, '19 · 9:56 AM

SoWal Insider

May 1, '19 · 3:51 PM#66

Is this issue going to be decided in a court of law, on the beaches of South Walton, or on this website? If you think you are going to "win" in the court of public opinion, it ain't going to happen. Badger on.

Beach Fanatic

May 1, '19 · 4:46 PM#67

Just when the public has decided to let the issue rest for a while as it works its way through the courts like the BFOs wanted along comes someone new to this discussion that has been going on for years to stir the pot. Give it a rest Reggie...you arent going to accomplish anything by coming here and asking for opinions that you dont want to hear. Go hang with your beach buddies and trash talk us all you want. The courts will decide.

Beach LoverAuthor

May 1, '19 · 5:25 PM#68

And still anticipating a discussion with the first person to answer one, just one, of those 50 questions. And no, not looking for a win here. But only honest discussion for a change. And no, not bringing anything up that is quiet. There were two intense intimidation events orchestrated by extreme activists last weekend, all directed at innocent beachfront owners. Those two events alone pushed 436 social media posts by the mob leaders. I don’t call that quiet. Respectfully, this is the only protected site where opposing views aren’t blocked.

Beach Fanatic

May 1, '19 · 5:33 PM#69

While I agree that this will ultimately be decided in the courts, I'm surprised that there seems to be no appetite for some actual discussion. What if the court orders some sort of mediation? People would rather stay in court for years on end, than consider some sort of (wait for the dirty word) compromise? Maybe people like being on pins and needles or being in conflict? I find the whole scenario baffling.

SoWal Insider

May 1, '19 · 5:38 PM#70

And still anticipating a discussion with the first person to answer one, just one, of those 50 questions. And no, not looking for a win here. But only honest discussion for a change. And no, not bringing anything up that is quiet. There were two intense intimidation events orchestrated by extreme activists last weekend, all directed at innocent beachfront owners. Those two events alone pushed 436 social media posts by the mob leaders. I don’t call that quiet. Respectfully, this is the only protected site where opposing views aren’t blocked.

While I agree that this will ultimately be decided in the courts, I'm surprised that there seems to be no appetite for some actual discussion. What if the court orders some sort of mediation? People would rather stay in court for years on end, than consider some sort of (wait for the dirty word) compromise? Maybe people like being on pins and needles or being in conflict? I find the whole scenario baffling.

Just keep bloviating. You already know what we think.

Beach LoverAuthor

May 2, '19 · 7:04 AM#71

Just keep bloviating. You already know what we think.

LVT, you’ve asked me three questions, I’ve answered all three. I’ve asked you 50, you’ve responded seven(7) times and yet answered none, not one. Why not? Who’s “bloviating”? I’m Just trying to have a discussion. Let’s try this last one; Your statement about Customary Use being currently recognized on our beaches is a statement of law, not “feelings”, correct? In order to keep social order, there must be rules and enforcement. Under which government authority is Customary Use currently governed?

Beach LoverAuthor

May 2, '19 · 8:31 AM#72

And before we see the following, I’ll say it for you...
There are examples of terrible, extreme, intimidating
30aholes on both sides of the issue. There are a few very vocal, mean, intimidating, extreme private beach owners who aren’t helping our community at all. Their actions on the beach give us a bad name and hurt the community. Period.

Beach Fanatic

May 2, '19 · 9:09 AM#73

Give it up, Reggie. You’ve been outclassed with Deja Poo and Not Today.

I’m still baffled as to why nobody supporting CU here on SoWal will condemn the horrible insinuation that Daniel Uhlfelder made that BFOs are acting like Nazis. But then again, I’m not.

Pick and choose. That’s the motto of CU proponents. Please, anybody?

Beach Fanatic

May 2, '19 · 9:34 AM#74

Teresa, what part of my post are you disagreeing with?....being outclassed or that nobody has called out Daniel Uhlfelder on his oppression remark? Oh yeah, I forgot I inserted the pick and choose comment. There’s no way CU folks would ever do that.

Beach Fanatic

May 2, '19 · 11:01 AM#75

This is the worst click bait thread since "Welcome to Trumps America".

Beach Lover

May 2, '19 · 9:34 PM#761

Reggie: Been visiting Seagrove annually since 1969. It is my 96 year old mom’s happy place. Over the past 12 years or so we’ve come in the Fall. Because she is 96 last year we came in July. Yes, the crowds were a shock; I even asked a group if they could turn down their music. They kindly obliged. She was too feeble to go on the sand but I relayed to her about the chains and signs I saw on the beach. She was flummoxed - compared it to buying a beautiful house with a lovely view on a busy road, then complaining about the traffic. I got her with help from kind strangers onto the sand for the last sunset. Mama is right.