Toyota Pruis

[Chickpea]

This argument/article is based on misleading and out of date information. The information is from a marketing firm, not an independent reasearcher (3 guesses who paid for the study) and doesn't exactly compare apples and apples. To begin with, they assume a Prius has a 100,000 mile lifespan and a Hummer has a 300,000 life span.

The main argument against the Prius seems to be the enviromental damage at the Sudbury plant.......which occurred in the 70s and 80s! This information is outdated and inaccurrate. See the rebuttals from the 2 sources below:
"The Sudbury info is seriously outdated, and the comment about moon buggies (like, when did Nasa test moon buggies ? early 1970?s) ought to have given the author a clue. Sudbury was polluted by a century of mining (1870 on). In fact, some of Sudbury?s nickel went into making the Statue of Liberty. Currently, the mine is owned by INCO (not Toyota), and produces 100,000 tons of nickel a year, of which Toyota buys 1% (1000 tons). Nickel, by the way, is primarily used to make stainless steel."

"...... article about the Inco nickel factory at Sudbury, Canada, wrongly implied that poisonous fumes from the factory had left the area looking like a lunar landscape because so many plants and trees had died. You also sought to blame Toyota because the nickel is used, among countless other purposes, for making the Prius hybrid car batteries.
In fact any damage occurred more than thirty years ago, long before the Prius was made. Since then, Inco has reduced sulphur dioxide emissions by more than 90 per cent and has helped to plant more than 11 million trees.
The company has won praise from the Ontario Ministry of Environment and environmental groups. Sudbury has won several conservation awards and is a centre for eco-tourism."

Matthew Christ needs to choose his sources better. The main anti-Prius argument is from an article in to the March 7, 2007 issue of the Central Connecticut State "Recorder" a college paper, which is itself being questioned as nothing more than a thin rewrite of the marketing group's press release!

I appreciated BMBV's post and your rebuttal and I am frankly amazed at the conversation this thread has spawned. Like most people on this board I am capable of thinking critically and realize that positions and passions run high on both fronts.

As for me, buying a Pruis when we need to make that commitment continues to be a relatively simple choice - I FAR prefer the way other cars look - I could not give 2 hoots about status symbol - that will wear off very fast - I care very much about the environment and probably more about NOT wanting to spend hard earned money on gas- Full stop. I am already shell shocked at it costing between $35-40 to fill up cars we presently own (and i realize how very spoiled we are here -in europe ones pays far far more and in the middle east, in some countries, fresh spring water costs more than gasoline!)

 

[Chickpea]

Just to add to my last post:

With respect to the environment, I continue to be amazed that almost 7 years into this administration there continues to be a disregard for inconvenient evidence - editorial changes are made to commissioned reports, etc, etc..a sobering reality in the 21st century but you guys know the drill.

My bigger point is that with so little free time, and seemingly strong beliefs on both sides of the coin, I prefer to leave the back and forth to those of you passionately enjoy the debates - I lack the energy to try convert....

 

[Smiling JOe]

6th Gen, I don't recall saying that I was choosing the Prius for environmental reasons. My anecdotal evidence was in response to you quoting a Hollywood news article from 2002, stating that people buy the Prius because they want people to think that they are environmentally conscious.

Also, here is some concrete evidence for you. The Hummer H2 weighs in at 8,600 lbs, while the Toyota Prius weighs in at 2,932 lbs, almost 1/3 that of the Hummer. In all of your quotes, you never mention the added wear and tear on the road of the H2 compared to the Prius. The heavier the vehicle, the more the wear and tear, and therefore, the more asphalt needed to maintain the roads. Why don't you do a little research and contrast the needed frequency of road paving if everyone drove H2s, as compared to Priuses? I am sure that environmental footprint would add up.

 

[Chickpea]

6th Gen, I don't recall saying that I was choosing the Prius for environmental reasons. My anecdotal evidence was in response to you quoting a Hollywood news article from 2002, stating that people buy the Prius because they want people to think that they are environmentally conscious.

Also, here is some concrete evidence for you. The Hummer H2 weighs in at 8,600 lbs, while the Toyota Prius weighs in at 2,932 lbs, almost 1/3 that of the Hummer. In all of your quotes, you never mention the added wear and tear on the road of the H2 compared to the Prius. The heavier the vehicle, the more the wear and tear, and therefore, the more asphalt needed to maintain the roads. Why don't you do a little research and contrast the needed frequency of road paving if everyone drove H2s, as compared to Priuses? I am sure that environmental footprint would add up.

And here I go going out on a limb again - if anyone of us happen to be involved in an accident with a hummer - chances are good that we will be goners!! It is borderline criminally insane to allow those as recreational cars. I was at a light once with one next to me and when I saw up close how high their center of gravity (front of the car) was, it coincided pretty much with where my head was. Scared me out of my mind!

 

[6thGen]

6th Gen, I don't recall saying that I was choosing the Prius for environmental reasons. My anecdotal evidence was in response to you quoting a Hollywood news article from 2002, stating that people buy the Prius because they want people to think that they are environmentally conscious.

Also, here is some concrete evidence for you. The Hummer H2 weighs in at 8,600 lbs, while the Toyota Prius weighs in at 2,932 lbs, almost 1/3 that of the Hummer. In all of your quotes, you never mention the added wear and tear on the road of the H2 compared to the Prius. The heavier the vehicle, the more the wear and tear, and therefore, the more asphalt needed to maintain the roads. Why don't you do a little research and contrast the needed frequency of road paving if everyone drove H2s, as compared to Priuses? I am sure that environmental footprint would add up.

No, the fact that popular culture has determined that it is a status symbol, as evidenced by the many articles I've posted, proves that it is. Again, whether your friends believe that it is or not has nothing to do with that fact.

As for the Hummer comparison, of course the Hummer has more of an impact than a Prius, but the rest of the Prius' environmental impact cannot be ignored if that is the basis of the consumer's choice. However, for someone making the decision based on environmental impact, the Hummer is a false choice. The Prius would be better compared to the Corolla or the Civic, or even the Accord. That is where, I believe it fails.

 

[6thGen]

I am the wrong person to ask because I am not a huge AC lover - here, in Jan, thermostat is generally off and windows open (cannot stand canned air - need fresh air mostly) and in July, thermostat is between 77-78. I am still trained to turn it off when I leave and back on when we come in (although that may conceivably use up more energy) but we do not have a big house and it gets cool very quickly.

I was just curious. The sustainable consumption movement is gaining ground, but it has a long way to go and a lot to prove before it reaches the mainstream. Just in case you haven't heard of it, one aspect is they reject alternatives to environmental impact, such as the battery in the Prius (not sure on this specifically). I read a story on a lightbulb that used much less energy, but they refused to endorse it because the bulb used a very small amount of mercury. I don't believe they've taken economics classes.

 

[Smiling JOe]

No, the fact that popular culture has determined that it is a status symbol, as evidenced by the many articles I've posted, proves that it is. Again, whether your friends believe that it is or not has nothing to do with that fact.
...The Prius would be better compared to the Corolla or the Civic, or even the Accord. That is where, I believe it fails.

Three magazine/newspaper magazines do not make popular culture. Typically, people are swayed by magazines and newspapers, so if it the Prius is a status symbol, it is only because the writers say it is so, not because the buyers believe it.

If the Hummer is a false choice for comparison, I'm guessing it is so, based on size. If that is the case, the Corolla and Civic would also be false choices based on compact size, though the Accord would be a better choice for comparison.

 

[Mango]

This thread is still alive?

 

[scooterbug44]

My point is that whatever he posted is better than friends' opinions as far as original thinking goes.

False information cribbed from a marketing group is better than empirical evidence that comes from a friend?

You were against a more fuel efficient car because of the environmental impact of its battery production/disposal, but CONDEMN an environmental group for not promoting a more energy efficient light bulb because of the environmental impact of the mercury in it? Consistency thou art a gem :roll:

 

[6thGen]

Three magazine/newspaper magazines do not make popular culture.

No, but I don't have time to dig up every article. Would you argue that Hollywood isn't pop culture, either?

If the Hummer is a false choice for comparison, I'm guessing it is so, based on size. If that is the case, the Corolla and Civic would also be false choices based on compact size, though the Accord would be a better choice for comparison.

It's a false choice because for the environmentalist, it gets far worse gas milage than other choices. Environmentalists crux is sacrificing personal luxuries for the sake of the environment, so the Corolla and Civic are still top choices. The Prius is supposed to be the best for the environment, so size should not matter. If you were talking about the Ford Escape Hybrid you could bring that up, but not if the deciding factor is environmental impact.