• Trouble logging in? Send us a message with your username and/or email address for help.
New posts

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,644
1,773
No, but I don't have time to dig up every article. Would you argue that Hollywood isn't pop culture, either?



It's a false choice because for the environmentalist, it gets far worse gas milage than other choices. Environmentalists crux is sacrificing personal luxuries for the sake of the environment, so the Corolla and Civic are still top choices. The Prius is supposed to be the best for the environment, so size should not matter. If you were talking about the Ford Escape Hybrid you could bring that up, but not if the deciding factor is environmental impact.

You ride me about not providing you with evidence other than factual evidence of actual owners and friends, yet you state that you don't have time to dig up every article. I don't want to make the time to do it myself. I have not been stating that the Prius is the be-all, end-all of cars. Perhaps you are reading too deeply into my posts.

I don't believe that being able to fit inside a car, is a luxury. I guess you've never sat in the back seat of the Corolla, Civic, and the Prius. ;-) Size does matter.
 

6thGen

Beach Fanatic
Aug 22, 2005
1,491
152
False information cribbed from a marketing group is better than empirical evidence that comes from a friend?

Do you even know what empirical data is?

You were against a more fuel efficient car because of the environmental impact of its battery production/disposal, but CONDEMN an environmental group for not promoting a more energy efficient light bulb because of the environmental impact of the mercury in it? Consistency thou art a gem :roll:

I hate that I have to spell this out, but the Prius sells because people believe that it has the least environmental impact when it most likely does not, as battery construction and disposal outweighs the gains they make in lower fuel consumption. I'm condemning an environmental group because they are against any sort of progress unless it fits in their box of no trade off in impact. In other words, no matter how much less the impact, they are against the product if it has any sort of trade off.
 

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,706
3,339
Sowal
Do you even know what empirical data is?



I hate that I have to spell this out, but the Prius sells because people believe that it has the least environmental impact when it most likely does not, as battery construction and disposal outweighs the gains they make in lower fuel consumption. I'm condemning an environmental group because they are against any sort of progress unless it fits in their box of no trade off in impact. In other words, no matter how much less the impact, they are against the product if it has any sort of trade off.

"Empirical data are data that are produced by experiment or observation." Seems an accurate description of SJ's friends telling him about a car.....

The Prius sells because 1) people don't want to spend $50-70 to fill up their car 2) they want to reduce our dependance on fossil fuels.

Silly me, I thought most environmentalists were about saving and conserving the environment, not denying themselves creature comforts. I live a comfortable life while trying to do whatever I can to help the environment, so I guess I'm not a true environmentalist in your eyes because I'm not chewing bark in a yurt!
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,644
1,773
I filled my motorcycle with gas yesterday -- $16 :yikes: That may not sound like much, but not long ago, I could fill it for $8. It's been a while since I calculated my gas mileage on it, but I'm keeping the mileage now, to see. I used to get around 40mpg, even if I was heavy on the throttle.
 

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,383
413
Another reason this thread caught my attention is because of a program I was listening to a couple of weeks ago (can't recall where).

Anyway the gist was that the Honda Accord Hybrid failed for more than the obvious reason of getting less MPG than a Prius. Another (and I assume apparent) reason was that people in the market could not differentiate the body style of the Accord Hybrid and a regular Accord. The only thing was the Hybrid label. They said that a buyer at a dealership wanted to be sure that the Accord would come with the "Hybrid" label on it for the obvious reason (or at least obvious to some).

But after doing some more reading (only because you guys stimulated my intellectual curiosity :D ), the Accord Hybrid is a powerful 6 cylinder whose gas engine never turns off when driving. So you never get the silent feel of an electric vehicle. Maybe this is another reason.

It certainly appears turbo-diesels can achieve the same mileage as a Prius while at the same time have the ability to burn a diversity of bio-fuel blends.

Only problem is farmers will slash more rain forests to grow more corn and sugar cane..... on and on...on and on.:roll:
 

6thGen

Beach Fanatic
Aug 22, 2005
1,491
152
"Empirical data are data that are produced by experiment or observation." Seems an accurate description of SJ's friends telling him about a car.....

The Prius sells because 1) people don't want to spend $50-70 to fill up their car 2) they want to reduce our dependance on fossil fuels.

Silly me, I thought most environmentalists were about saving and conserving the environment, not denying themselves creature comforts. I live a comfortable life while trying to do whatever I can to help the environment, so I guess I'm not a true environmentalist in your eyes because I'm not chewing bark in a yurt!

Empirical data does not include anecdotal evidence.

Saying that they buy the Prius to save on gas is the equivalent of saying that people that buy the Mercedes diesels do the same. The second statement has merit.

As for the final paragraph, you keep making my point, that the sustainable consumption crowd is very misguided. I never said you were that type of environmentalist.
 

30A Skunkape

Skunky
Jan 18, 2006
10,313
2,349
55
Backatown Seagrove
I filled my motorcycle with gas yesterday -- $16 :yikes: That may not sound like much, but not long ago, I could fill it for $8. It's been a while since I calculated my gas mileage on it, but I'm keeping the mileage now, to see. I used to get around 40mpg, even if I was heavy on the throttle.

I hope you bypassed the $1.50 12oz bottle of water in Tom Thumb's cooler that people seem all too happy to buy while concurrently bemoaning gas prices! I hear ya though.

Also, I remember hearing some time ago that the electric hybrids were dangerous to emergency workers after an accident because they could potentially get a fatal jolt while extracating a person from a mangled car...any truth to this or simply part of a misinformation campaign started by big oil?;-)
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,644
1,773
I hope you bypassed the $1.50 12oz bottle of water in Tom Thumb's cooler that people seem all too happy to buy while concurrently bemoaning gas prices! I hear ya though.
I typically do pass the bottled water, unless I'm without my filter.

6thGen, you are looking for me to provide evidence, via news stories, that Prius owners are not buying for the status symbol. Find me some stories about the zebra-striped elephant. ... It is difficult to find information regarding something that doesn't exist.

Regarding the reasons why the Accord Hybrid didn't sell, I have my guess. I test drove the Accord Hybrid. Being a previous Accord owner and someone who likes Honda products, I wanted to check it out. What I found was a car that felt a little funny when switching from the electric to gas. I also found the car to have way too much horsepower compared to the previous Accord which I owned. My old Accord had something like 160 HP and the new hybrid had about 255 HP. The gas mileage difference between the two was nominal, yet the Hybrid had expensive batteries to replace, and the cost of the Hybrid had skyrocketed over the older model Accords. Also, the cost of repairing the hybrid is more expensive than the gas only model.

Honda needs to go back to making less powerful or multi-powered engines, in order to appeal to the loyal Honda base. Just my opinion.

On a similar rant, Toyota's Tundra is now larger than the 2006 models. The engines are stronger and the actual truck is larger. I have no idea what they were thinking when they made that decision. They already screwed up the best small-sized pickup, the Tacoma, by making it bigger, and now they are screwing up the Tundra.

These companies need to be making smarter engines and have more options for horsepower. The Tundra comes with options of engine size, but it is kind of like the menu at McCONald's, Large or Super-Sized.
 

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,383
413
....Also, I remember hearing some time ago that the electric hybrids were dangerous to emergency workers after an accident because they could potentially get a fatal jolt while extracating a person from a mangled car...any truth to this or simply part of a misinformation campaign started by big oil?;-)

At well over 200 volts DC, I'd say the battery would be lethal IF you were able to come in contact with exposed leads or circuitry that carried this potential. And DC hurts a lot worse than AC! I just hope 30gay isn't reading this!!!:blink:

Not knowing design details, I would suspect that there would be (or should be) some automatic isolation of the battery in this event but maybe that's a future safety evolutionary step.

So not a big oil campaign ;-) . I know you're kidding about that part but some others may take you seriously in their effort to demonize oil companies. I'm not saying they're angels either...what BIG business is?
 
New posts


Sign Up for SoWal Newsletter