Beach Property Rights - public/private

[jodiFL]

The Legislature also authorized the Florida Professional Surveyor and Mapper as the only personnel qualified to establish the mean high water line.

And the topo maps they use were just updated so you might want to have another TOPO survey done on your property because you might not own what you think you do.

 

[jodiFL]

well here goes....for some that dont want to dig through this,

(14) "Mean high water" means the average height of the high waters over a 19-year period. For shorter periods of observation, "mean high water" means the average height of the high waters after corrections are applied to eliminate known variations and to reduce the result to the equivalent of a mean 19-year value.

(21) "Nineteen-year tidal cycle" means the period of time generally reckoned as constituting a full tidal cycle.

(1) Mean high-water line along the shores of land immediately bordering on navigable waters is recognized and declared to be the boundary between the foreshore owned by the state in its sovereign capacity and upland subject to private ownership. However, no provision of this part shall be deemed to constitute a waiver of state ownership of sovereignty submerged lands, nor shall any provision of this part be deemed to impair the title to privately owned submerged lands validly alienated by the State of Florida or its legal predecessors.

(9) "Foreshore" means the strip of land between the mean high-water and mean low-water lines that is alternately covered and uncovered by the flow of the tide.

 

[ShallowsNole]

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As a matter of fact, I always wondered what would prevent our illustrious government from then going to bay front property owners and telling them that all the jodiFLs in Florida are entitled to camp, fish and roast marsh-mellows on their property if they can on beach property.

They already can. My legal description is to the MHW of Choctawhatchee Bay, but people can get out of their boats and hang out on my 3 - 4 feet of beach. I have been told that as long as they don't climb the hill (or steal my boat :roll, they are not trespassing on my property.

So, conversely, I believe that as long as I don't crawl up a beach property's private walkover or climb up over their dune/cliff, that I am not trespassing. Unfortunately, that is only ShallowsLogic, and nobody listens to me.

 

[jodiFL]

Thank you Shallowsnole for clearing that up. How about if I put gas in the boat and share the fish I catch?;-) Not that i would consider getting that close to the drop off on most property around here on the bay. I have seen WAY too many snakes hanging out in those tree roots.

 

[InletBchDweller]

BeachBliss, Thank you for responding to my questions.

I honestly do see both sides. That is why I am trying to ask questions.

Say if I had a gulf front house that was next to a public beach access. That access had massive amounts of people using it- they all camp out on the beach in front of my house and there was no room for my family to get on the sand and enjoy themselves. OR If loud music was playing so that I could hear it in the house, or if teenagers were funneling beer , etc etc etc then I would be upset. I would deal with it at that time. But that is how the cards fall, IMHO if you are unlucky?? enough to be beside a public beach, lake or river access. When you purchased your Gulf Front property were the beach access already in place?? If so then, even if I understood that I "owned a part of the beach" I would have thought more about it. Times do change and growth is inevitable.

If you have a gulf front house that is no where close to a public beach access and if a family comes and camps out in front of your house, and made a hike doing so, because there is a nice close sandbar, or just because, I just dont see the harm. That is why I asked the question how close the house was to the actual water. Some homes are super close to the water and some are hundreds of yards away. If your home is 100 feet from the gulf really how could several people aggravate you??? (unless they were causing a ruckus) EX. I had a board member for Paradise by the Sea call me b/c I am president of the Board for a condo across the street. She was rude and steaming mad (at me) because a renter from "my" complex was on "their" beach sitting on a towel. She told me that it was a private beach and he was to get off and for me to contact all owners that they were NOT to be on their beach. I tried to pacify her, b/c of my position, but I really wanted to say...Your subdivision has some of the largest homesites on the Gulf in the area. THere is probably 6-8 homes where people actually stay so why does it matter??? Even if the subdivision was full of homes what does it matter??? I thought that there are alot of other things to worry about than a single man sitting on the beach. :roll:


Now as a local I understand/agree with the "other side' because I believe God created all this for us to enjoy and to block others is just not right. If people want to use the beach then they should be able to use the beach. Not your backyard, your dune, your shower or your steps. I dont think that anyone wants to take away your property they just want to use the beach. As far as the trash issue goes- I own inland and still I have to pick up trash that people throw out (which is on the countys property) but that is just part of being a responsible property owner, keeping it clean.

I dont believe that the County will allow mega story buildings in the area. Keep it at the issue at hand and dont try to steer the sheeple in your corral by scaring them.

I am all for everyone being able to use all beaches, everywhere.


Thanks for letting me put my dog in the hunt....

 

[Pirate]

Re: Private Property Owner's Rights Being Attacked

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That concept is where I have a real problem.

If "someone" uses your property over and over, they feel entitled to it. There is some law here in Georgia that if you've driven a path over private property everyday for x number of years unimpeded, you basically get an easement. I can see that. It is one individual usually trying to get to their property that may be landlocked (public road wise), etc.

But the difference between the above and the beach situation, in my opinion only, is that we're NOT talking about an individual. We're talking about the public. I'm no lawyer, but I believe the legal rights afforded to the "public" are not the same as the rights afforded to an individual or other LEGAL entity. I believe this is the only reason why Walton County, a legal entity, can drive on the beach through our property. They have done it for x number of years without oppsosition.

So what defines the public as using the beach for X years? Joe Blow showed up in 1987 and Jane Doe showed up in 1994? I hope you see my point. I believe this is exactly why the attorney general said it would have to be decided on a case by case basis.

What is your opinion on the definition of "the public has used the beach for years"?

The public has used the beach longer than the Sherriff has driven on it.

 

[jodiFL]

Doesnt matter if it has been used or not ...you dont own property between the MHWL and the waters edge...
- The title to lands under navigable waters within the boundaries of the state, which have not been alienated, including beaches below mean high water lines, is held by the state, by virtue of its sovereignty, in trust for all people.

 

[gardening1970]

InletBchDweller - Very intelligent post. There are probably lots of people who can see both sides of this emotional issue. Good job at verbalizing what a lot of folks are thinking.

 

[InletBchDweller]

Thanks sometimes I surprise myself....

InletBchDweller - Very intelligent post. There are probably lots of people who can see both sides of this emotional issue. Good job at verbalizing what a lot of folks are thinking.

 

[Rita]

IBD - Thanks for the post ..... This is pretty much how I am thinking.

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