New home building costs

[Smiling JOe]

Also not included are everyone's insurance rates if SoWal gets whacked by a some major storms during that 27 year period. If storms blow out the windows, causing major interior damage to many of the homes around here, we all can expect increased rates and more difficult to obtain insurance.

 

[Bdarg]

In California, Tennessee, Alaska and many other states we require that a structure be designed for earthquake loads. Is that pessimistic? Last time Tennessee had a major quake was almost 200 years ago, however we have written the codes with the understanding that loss of life would be extremely high the New Madrid goes off, unless we design with the anticipation of a major quake. It is estimated that the last New Madrid quake topped 8.0. At that level the soil liquefies, farm fields look like the gulf on a rough day and tall buildings look like wet spaghetti.

With such things in mind we design for anticipated problems happening rather than hoping that they do not. Building codes attempt to balance the odds of something happening with the cost to implement a protective measure. The goal is protecting the lives of the occupants. If we designed for sunny warm days then a nice tent would serve most everyone well. The reality is that it gets cold so we need insulation, it gets windy so we need a certain strengths to resist the winds. Much of Florida has design winds of 130 to 150 mph. For the average house that works out to roughly 27 to 55 lbs per square foot for the entire side of the house, windows included. With that in mind remember that your living room floor is only rated at 40 lbs per square foot. One important purpose of the impact rated window is to maintain the integrity of the structural envelope. Once the windows go field research of hurricane damaged structures shows that the house will likely loose its roof, exposing the contents to wind and rain.

We also need to include in the cost analysis the cost of putting all those nails in the hurricane ties. The bill for the metal may be a couple of thousand, but the cost to put 8 to 32 nails per strap is much much higher. Many manufactures and engineers require that all the nail holes in the ties be filled with a nail in order to get any strength from the tie. Major labor cost.

My point is that in order for a structure to resist hurricane forces the house must work as a complete structural system. All of the components have to work together. The house is only as strong as its weakest component. Nature loves to exploit weaknesses.

BTW nature does not recognize building codes. There is no law of nature that says that the winds cannot top 140 mph along the emerald coast or that the gusts must be limited to 3 seconds. That was just what the code committee agreed on base on the best information that they had available. It was not that long ago that the code committee thought that the trees would protect the houses in this area and thus the design wind forces could be reduced.

 

[Matt J]

99 out of a 100 would rather have the granite countertops than the storm windows.

Your point about a 5% deductible is a good one. When you consider a home on 30-A insured value of a million the first fifty thousand dollars in damage is yours, the insurance game becomes more absurd.

I think hurricane straps and metal tie-downs are a little different than storm windows. These pieces of metal only cost a couple thousand dollars for a whole house. These tie downs are just as valuable as the storm windows and doors but yet cost one twentieth as much as the windows and doors, not a reasonable comparison.

A wise man said one time that people will pay anything to save money and that seems to be true. Also your analysis assumes you will have storm damage, my assumption assumes you will not, so one analysis is optimistic and one is pessimistic!!!

So if a potential home owner were to ask you if they should install them, what would you tell them?

 

[elgordoboy]

In California, Tennessee, Alaska and many other states we require that a structure be designed for earthquake loads. Is that pessimistic? Last time Tennessee had a major quake was almost 200 years ago, however we have written the codes with the understanding that loss of life would be extremely high the New Madrid goes off, unless we design with the anticipation of a major quake. It is estimated that the last New Madrid quake topped 8.0. At that level the soil liquefies, farm fields look like the gulf on a rough day and tall buildings look like wet spaghetti.

With such things in mind we design for anticipated problems happening rather than hoping that they do not. Building codes attempt to balance the odds of something happening with the cost to implement a protective measure. The goal is protecting the lives of the occupants. If we designed for sunny warm days then a nice tent would serve most everyone well. The reality is that it gets cold so we need insulation, it gets windy so we need a certain strengths to resist the winds. Much of Florida has design winds of 130 to 150 mph. For the average house that works out to roughly 27 to 55 lbs per square foot for the entire side of the house, windows included. With that in mind remember that your living room floor is only rated at 40 lbs per square foot. One important purpose of the impact rated window is to maintain the integrity of the structural envelope. Once the windows go field research of hurricane damaged structures shows that the house will likely loose its roof, exposing the contents to wind and rain.

We also need to include in the cost analysis the cost of putting all those nails in the hurricane ties. The bill for the metal may be a couple of thousand, but the cost to put 8 to 32 nails per strap is much much higher. Many manufactures and engineers require that all the nail holes in the ties be filled with a nail in order to get any strength from the tie. Major labor cost.

My point is that in order for a structure to resist hurricane forces the house must work as a complete structural system. All of the components have to work together. The house is only as strong as its weakest component. Nature loves to exploit weaknesses.

BTW nature does not recognize building codes. There is no law of nature that says that the winds cannot top 140 mph along the emerald coast or that the gusts must be limited to 3 seconds. That was just what the code committee agreed on base on the best information that they had available. It was not that long ago that the code committee thought that the trees would protect the houses in this area and thus the design wind forces could be reduced.

If I stand up on one leg I am placing 215lbs on approximately 1/3 of a foot square. What am I missing ..do you mean inches? And if I jump up and land on just my heel that lbs/ft goes up exponentially. Do I need to start slithering around on my belly causing greater displacement of weight?

 

[Matt J]

If I stand up on one leg I am placing 215lbs on approximately 1/3 of a foot square. What am I missing ..do you mean inches? And if I jump up and land on just my heel that lbs/ft goes up exponentially. Do I need to start slithering around on my belly causing greater displacement of weight?

Careful don't poke an engineer.

 

[elgordoboy]

Careful don't poke an engineer.

I am truly asking for clarification I don't understand how I am able to walk across my floor without falling through.

 

[Matt J]

I am truly asking for clarification I don't understand how I am able to walk across my floor without falling through.

Oh okay, I understand it that the 40lbs/sq ft is distributed over the entire area of the room. In other words if you have a 10x10 room rated at 40lbs/sq ft you can have an over all capacity in the room of 4000lbs. Of course you probably wouldn't want to stack that on a needle. ;-)

 

[elgordoboy]

Oh okay, I understand it that the 40lbs/sq ft is distributed over the entire area of the room. In other words if you have a 10x10 room rated at 40lbs/sq ft you can have an over all capacity in the room of 4000lbs. Of course you probably wouldn't want to stack that on a needle. ;-)

Makes better sense to me...meaning if I put that 4000lbs out on my deck(if it were like my floor) I might would fall off with the other 3,785lbs. Tyvm

 

[Matt J]

Makes better sense to me...meaning if I put that 4000lbs out on my deck(if it were like my floor) I might would fall off with the other 3,785lbs. Tyvm

Regardless I am no engineer so if you use that equation I am not responsible for any resulting injury, property loss, or loss of life.

 

[Rambunkscious]

All these ideas about building sturdy storm proof homes are great, including the storm windows, which are now not an option but required in most coastal areas. So any discussion regarding "is it worth it and is it a good investment" is a moot point because they are required now and they were not required a year ago. My analysis just points out that if you did not have to buy these windows, because now that you DO have to buy them, it will take 27 years to get your money back. I know there are some variables such as the possibility of not getting homeowners insurance without these windows, etc. in the future. And if a hurricane scores a direct hit on your home it would be stouter with the storm windows, of course this may not ever happen but could.

This discussion was started on home building costs. I am just pointing out that yes we are getting some breaks on home construction costs now because of the slow times when workers are more abundant.

The storm window upgrade change to the building code however, cancels out this savings. And yes, they cost less than they used to but they still cost at least twice and more like three times what normal windows cost.

This code change comes at an especially weak time in the real estate market when we are also facing depreciating real estate values, appreciating real estate taxes (which are based on prior years not present years), appreciating homeowner insurance costs, declining housing demand, housing oversupply, the difficulty (and practicality) of obtaining home loans over $417k,the second highest foreclosure rate in the United States, point being this is another nail in the coffin to the greatly anticipated housing recovery. Most people realize that currently you can rent a house for about one half of what it will cost you to own the house.

Some people buy feraris because they like them and can afford them, if they cost more they would still buy them. Most people though drive a chevy or a toyota.