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tistheseason

Beach Fanatic
Jul 12, 2005
1,072
93
54
Atlanta, GA
I have found it very interesting to read some of the europeans newspapers and listen to what they are saying - FWIW, we are far from the only ones seemingly enamoured with a candidate - the Italians and the French are gushing!!!

I've heard that the Spaniards are as well. They are all watching this election carefully since they were all shocked at the 2004 election outcome. We're headed over in May -- and I guarantee that it's going to the topic of many conversations! I'll have to spend some time on Sowal before leaving -- to brush up on my talking points!
 

Chickpea

Beach Fanatic
Dec 15, 2005
1,151
366
30-A Corridor
I am still one of the undecided and in the end it will be the posters who maintain their composure and make their points clearly that might influence my decision in this race.:D

Hi Aleonard,
I have to ask you a question that genuinely perplexes me when I read something you wrote - (and please do not think I am being rude - I am genuinely curious):

I am always amazed when I read about people that are still labeling themselves as being "undecided" quite late in the game- why is that? What new information are you looking for that will maybe sway you? Is it that you are not all that interested in politics and therefore do not follow debates and positions early on? Or are you confused about the nuances between the different people running? I guess I would like to know what you are still evaluating? And will you really leave it to the posters to influence your vote???? Why not study those policies that are important to you and gauge which candidate (republican or democrat) that most closely espouses what your core beliefs are?

Again, I mean no disrespect - just curious and wondering....
 

Alicia Leonard

SoWal Insider
Hi Aleonard,
I have to ask you a question that genuinely perplexes me when I read something you wrote - (and please do not think I am being rude - I am genuinely curious):

I am always amazed when I read about people that are still labeling themselves as being "undecided" quite late in the game- why is that? What new information are you looking for that will maybe sway you? Is it that you are not all that interested in politics and therefore do not follow debates and positions early on? Or are you confused about the nuances between the different people running? I guess I would like to know what you are still evaluating? And will you really leave it to the posters to influence your vote???? Why not study those policies that are important to you and gauge which candidate (republican or democrat) that most closely espouses what your core beliefs are?

Again, I mean no disrespect - just curious and wondering....

I have studied policy and voting records and many of the votes that would have helped me make up my mind, well, all three were absent. I say that calm posters might sway me because they might bring something to my attention that I have overlooked or did not pay attention to when reading. Ever since I have been old enough to vote there has been a Bush or Clinton in the White House. I associate two candidates with previous administrations and another one I'm not sure if he has enough experience, yet. The actions of his pastor did cause me to recoil but I am trying to work through that.

One of my main concerns is how in the Hail:D are we going to continue to pay for the war????? None of the three has been able to answer that question to my satisfaction. And if I am not satisfied then I am undecided.
I also don't think the three are giving any service to how vulnerable our country is from open borders from a national security standpoint, not an immigration point.

Tom Clancy told Larry King that he had once thought of writing about the 9-11 scenario but he didn't believe it was possible and he didn't think his readers would buy it. I think some areas of our borders that are not secure could lead to a possible "unbelievable" scenario in the future and that concerns me. These are a few of my thoughts, not all, on this race.

No disrespect taken:wave:
 

Chickpea

Beach Fanatic
Dec 15, 2005
1,151
366
30-A Corridor
I've heard that the Spaniards are as well. They are all watching this election carefully since they were all shocked at the 2004 election outcome. We're headed over in May -- and I guarantee that it's going to the topic of many conversations! I'll have to spend some time on Sowal before leaving -- to brush up on my talking points!

When I was last in Europe it was the same thing - everyone watching very closely....Spain you say??? Lucky lucky - hope you have an awesome time. Spain is just amazing but I know you know this!!
 

Camp Creek Kid

Christini Zambini
Feb 20, 2005
1,277
125
54
Seacrest Beach
School is out the kids are home are we are going to enjoy the day. Rapunzel, when I have some time to sit down and write an intelligent response to your post, I will. I do not think you are a "witch," and, in fact, that word is not even part of my vocabulary.

I do want to point out, though, that this discussion is illustrative of the frustration that exists when one wants to criticize Obama for his politics. One must tread very lightly and choose words very carefully because Obama supporters are quick to throw the "racist" label around--whether it is at Republicans or other Democrats.

The latest polls show a huge drop in support for Obama. Apparently I am not the only one who thought his speech raised more questions than it answered, but then again, I'm just a typical white person.
 

seacrestkristi

Beach Fanatic
Nov 27, 2005
3,538
36
Ditto for me! Not to mention the fact if some of us are a little off center in our presentation, we might be banned. I have a lot I could say regarding this thread and I well still might say it. I have read every post with great interest but it is obvious to even the most casual observer that cck and cp get hammered for their opinions while rapunzel and tootsie as well as others receive accolades for theirs. The bias is obvious and duly noted by this poster and I, for one, do not care to be denigrated for mine as cck has been so I'll just shut up. Thanks from those of us that agree with you, cck, for taking all the heat. We appreciate the fact that we don't have to do so.

Ditto for me too, Andy A! I just tried to rep you and will as soon as I am able. Looks like I already gave too many good reps to a couple others on this thread. Thanks for speaking out for the truth cp, cck, Andy A, and anyone else I may have left out who has been brave enough to speak up with some truth and real life issues. Punzy asked me not to stay long, maybe that's why I'm still here. I used to sort of like Obama but between the preacher and the hate I've received from his supporters on this board I really have a hard time even listening to the man. :blink: :love:
 

elgordoboy

Beach Fanatic
Feb 9, 2007
2,507
888
I no longer stay in Dune Allen
School is out the kids are home are we are going to enjoy the day. Rapunzel, when I have some time to sit down and write an intelligent response to your post, I will. I do not think you are a "witch," and, in fact, that word is not even part of my vocabulary.

I do want to point out, though, that this discussion is illustrative of the frustration that exists when one wants to criticize Obama for his politics. One must tread very lightly and choose words very carefully because Obama supporters are quick to throw the "racist" label around--whether it is at Republicans or other Democrats.

The latest polls show a huge drop in support for Obama. Apparently I am not the only one who thought his speech raised more questions than it answered, but then again, I'm just a typical white person.
Recent like these? I am looking for others also to find a huge drop.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...s/democratic_presidential_nomination-191.html

Whoever posted earlier here or in another thread about this Wright incident not changing anyone's mind I tend to agree with. None the folks railing against Obama now were going to vote for him anyway. Obama fans will not turn against him over this issue. I am glad it happened so that speech had to be made.
Polls came from realclearpolitics just something from a search engine. I hope no one feels attacked over this and sees any hate speech in this post. I am not being sarcastic.
 

GoodWitch58

Beach Fanatic
Oct 10, 2005
4,810
1,923
I have studied policy and voting records and many of the votes that would have helped me make up my mind, well, all three were absent. I say that calm posters might sway me because they might bring something to my attention that I have overlooked or did not pay attention to when reading. Ever since I have been old enough to vote there has been a Bush or Clinton in the White House. I associate two candidates with previous administrations and another one I'm not sure if he has enough experience, yet. The actions of his pastor did cause me to recoil but I am trying to work through that.

One of my main concerns is how in the Hail:D are we going to continue to pay for the war????? None of the three has been able to answer that question to my satisfaction. And if I am not satisfied then I am undecided.
I also don't think the three are giving any service to how vulnerable our country is from open borders from a national security standpoint, not an immigration point.

Tom Clancy told Larry King that he had once thought of writing about the 9-11 scenario but he didn't believe it was possible and he didn't think his readers would buy it. I think some areas of our borders that are not secure could lead to a possible "unbelievable" scenario in the future and that concerns me. These are a few of my thoughts, not all, on this race.

No disrespect taken:wave:

I can appreciate your thoughts. Here is something to consider: you pretty much know what you will get with McCain and Clinton. Their records are clear.

Obama offers to lead the country to find a way out of the mess that the last Administration has left us...and while he may not have years of experience...that may be a good thing. He may have a greater vision. Some of the most respected politicians (is there such a thing?) and government and business leaders seem to think so.

It could not get much worse, IMO, than the last 7 years--and before someone jumps on this; it is my opinion...you don't have to pay any attention to it!

The Minister was over the top--but there is some context to his anger--and that is not who Obama is. Even the worst of Obama's critics would have to agree [or not ]with that, I believe.

Having spent a good portion of my life (and I am old enough to be your mother, if not your grandmother lol) working in government and politics...I think it is important to know that those clips of the minister did not just magically appear--they were selected by the Opposition Research teams to bring out the fear--so, thoughtful people take that context into account as well. It does not excuse the venom of the isolated remarks, but it does put them into context. It is a political campaign! And, McCain and Clinton are running their campaigns by the old rules. Obama is doing something different.

It is up to the American people to decide whether they want something different or business as usual. And, the truth is: no one knows exactly what will happen, or what they will do, including McCain, Clinton and Obama. World events have a way of inserting themselves into situations, so it does not bother me that they do not know what they will do on every issue. (Obviously Bush had no plan for 911. I remember his promise of "no nation building--and compassionate conservatism"--just look to Iraq and Katrina and see how that plan went.) I am much more interested in the vision they have to make our country better than it is now.

I started this thread because I believe Obama's speech in response to the Oppostion Research strategy of the selected tapes, is analagous to being in an agrument, and one person saying to the other: "you know, you have a point--now, let's discuss it. " It defuses the argument most of the time; and sometimes it elevates the discussion to a place where growth can occur. And if ever we needed to grow in this country, then we need to grow on the subject of how race divides us. As I said in the beginning, I believe he showed a tremendous amount of courage to give that speech. At the same time, it was a good tactical move for his campaign--he had to do something. I also believe he demonstrated the best of the Christian doctrine: he faulted the behavior (sin), while still loving the person(sinner).

I enjoy this discussion board because I think it is good that people in this country care enough to get involved and express an opinion. Most of the time, we do that w/out getting personal or hateful. Sometimes, we mess up there too--but, the important thing is to think about the issues and discuss the pros and cons. and, to realize that our very existence as a country is due to a few brave souls who had the vision of a better world, and were willing to travel to a wilderness to make it happen. America has been better than we are now; we can be better again--but I believe we need a leader and followers who have the vision to get us from here to there.

As I said before and as I am telling my students: think what you want about the political campaign--but pay attention to the speech. It is historically important.
 

Alicia Leonard

SoWal Insider
I can appreciate your thoughts. Here is something to consider: you pretty much know what you will get with McCain and Clinton. Their records are clear.

Obama offers to lead the country to find a way out of the mess that the last Administration has left us...and while he may not have years of experience...that may be a good thing. He may have a greater vision. Some of the most respected politicians (is there such a thing?) and government and business leaders seem to think so.

It could not get much worse, IMO, than the last 7 years--and before someone jumps on this; it is my opinion...you don't have to pay any attention to it!

The Minister was over the top--but there is some context to his anger--and that is not who Obama is. Even the worst of Obama's critics would have to agree [or not ]with that, I believe.

Having spent a good portion of my life (and I am old enough to be your mother, if not your grandmother lol) working in government and politics...I think it is important to know that those clips of the minister did not just magically appear--they were selected by the Opposition Research teams to bring out the fear--so, thoughtful people take that context into account as well. It does not excuse the venom of the isolated remarks, but it does put them into context. It is a political campaign! And, McCain and Clinton are running their campaigns by the old rules. Obama is doing something different.

It is up to the American people to decide whether they want something different or business as usual. And, the truth is: no one knows exactly what will happen, or what they will do, including McCain, Clinton and Obama. World events have a way of inserting themselves into situations, so it does not bother me that they do not know what they will do on every issue. (Obviously Bush had no plan for 911. I remember his promise of "no nation building--and compassionate conservatism"--just look to Iraq and Katrina and see how that plan went.) I am much more interested in the vision they have to make our country better than it is now.

I started this thread because I believe Obama's speech in response to the Oppostion Research strategy of the selected tapes, is analagous to being in an agrument, and one person saying to the other: "you know, you have a point--now, let's discuss it. " It defuses the argument most of the time; and sometimes it elevates the discussion to a place where growth can occur. And if ever we needed to grow in this country, then we need to grow on the subject of how race divides us. As I said in the beginning, I believe he showed a tremendous amount of courage to give that speech. At the same time, it was a good tactical move for his campaign--he had to do something. I also believe he demonstrated the best of the Christian doctrine: he faulted the behavior (sin), while still loving the person(sinner).

I enjoy this discussion board because I think it is good that people in this country care enough to get involved and express an opinion. Most of the time, we do that w/out getting personal or hateful. Sometimes, we mess up there too--but, the important thing is to think about the issues and discuss the pros and cons. and, to realize that our very existence as a country is due to a few brave souls who had the vision of a better world, and were willing to travel to a wilderness to make it happen. America has been better than we are now; we can be better again--but I believe we need a leader and followers who have the vision to get us from here to there.

As I said before and as I am telling my students: think what you want about the political campaign--but pay attention to the speech. It is historically important.

Thank you for sharing the very nice and calm response. These are the types of post I will read and digest before making a choice.
 

GoodWitch58

Beach Fanatic
Oct 10, 2005
4,810
1,923
You're welcome:D
 
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