Is Obama a wolf in sheep's clothing ?
- Thread starter Furthur
- Start date
-
Trouble logging in? Send us a message with your username and/or email address for help.
I've never even been to his church and he put the whodo on me
I haven't been there either,......I was wondering about that too????
I haven't been there either,......I was wondering about that too????
Must have some really strong JuJu
I wrote off this thread twice and can't seem to help but come back. Kristi, you're rubbing off on me!
Oprah doesn't need to keep the support of the African American constituency to win the nomination. Obama does. Have you forgotten that Obama is a politican? The first African American in the US to have a shot in what has historically been a whites only club...
If he completely wrote off Wright the Obama is not "black enough" sentiment would likely start back up again. I never really understood this but regardless- it was out there just before Obama Mania started...
Anyway, Obama hanging Wright completely out to dry would be like George W. writing off Jerry F., Pat R. and the other religious leaders whose flocks the Republicans court. So many folks on this board have seemed so dumbfounded as to how/why Obama would have gone to this church. Duh- it is the largest black church in Chicago. It is for the VOTES!
I wrote off this thread twice and can't seem to help but come back. Kristi, you're rubbing off on me!
Oprah doesn't need to keep the support of the African American constituency to win the nomination. Obama does. Have you forgotten that Obama is a politican? The first African American in the US to have a shot in what has historically been a whites only club...
If he completely wrote off Wright the Obama is not "black enough" sentiment would likely start back up again. I never really understood this but regardless- it was out there just before Obama Mania started...
Anyway, Obama hanging Wright completely out to dry would be like George W. writing off Jerry F., Pat R. and the other religious leaders whose flocks the Republicans court. So many folks on this board have seemed so dumbfounded as to how/why Obama would have gone to this church. Duh- it is the largest black church in Chicago. It is for the VOTES!
Interesting perspective..............
Geowickey, Thanks for your post. However your statement that Obama joined Wright's church just to get votes indicates that I have not made myself clear with this thread.
I will try again.
Obama didn't just join to garner voters. He joined because of Wright's well known radical politics.
Lookit, Chicago is a big town, 3.5 to 4 million strong, with lots of big churches. The overwhelming majority of which are run by responsible people who abhor Rev. Wright and his message.
With better judgment Barack could have joined any one of them and built a voter base.
He chose Trinity because of Wright's national reputation as a leader in the Black Liberation Theology movement.
This is the same Marxist inspired bunk that the Catholic Church has spent the last 30 years trying to stomp out.
For background read Camp Creek Kid's thread "Brilliant Thomas Sowell editorial," which covers Obama's time at Harvard befriending Marxist professors.
I will try again.
Obama didn't just join to garner voters. He joined because of Wright's well known radical politics.
Lookit, Chicago is a big town, 3.5 to 4 million strong, with lots of big churches. The overwhelming majority of which are run by responsible people who abhor Rev. Wright and his message.
With better judgment Barack could have joined any one of them and built a voter base.
He chose Trinity because of Wright's national reputation as a leader in the Black Liberation Theology movement.
This is the same Marxist inspired bunk that the Catholic Church has spent the last 30 years trying to stomp out.
For background read Camp Creek Kid's thread "Brilliant Thomas Sowell editorial," which covers Obama's time at Harvard befriending Marxist professors.
OK, man the torpedo's, I'm ready. I am not a fan of the Reverend, but I have read that what he is saying is indeed correct.
I agree that there are a lot of churches in Chicago (I lived there for the first 18 years of my life) and that Obama could have chosen from many of them. But I feel like you view yourself as unveiling a sinister plot that his been in the works by Obama because of something he studied in college and because he chose Trinity.
Further-
Socialism, ideas by Marx, etc. don't make my sirens go off like they do yours. None of these is inherently evil. But rather- governments have done sinister things in their borrowing from/application of such concepts...
There are positive elements of socialism all over America- the way we run our fire departments for instance.
And as far as why he chose Trinity- my tune hasn't changed. My understanding was and still is that Obama chose Trinity because it is considered the largest black church in Chicago.
I am Polish. If I was just getting started in local (Chicago) politics I would likely attend the largest Polish church I could find in Chicago. This makes sense to me.
I don't think I am the only one who disagrees with you. I think I am just the only one goofy enough to bite and keep coming back for more...
In Dreams From My Father Obama describes the point where he decided to join Trinity. This comes toward the end of his pre-law school days of community organizing. Crack has just begun to appear on the south side of Chicago, the projects are getting dangerous, the working class neighborhoods are deteriorating, people are fencing their yards and installing steel security grates over their front doors. One night, he gets up in the middle of the night to confront some teens who are making noise in front of his apartment, goes out in his shorts, and realizes these aren't friendly boys partying a little too hard, but thugs who are messed up on crack and have guns. He talks about the breakdown of family and community. He talks about his organizing work, when just looked at as a means of accomplishing community goals, seems impotent and empty of meaning.
He describes how he was trying to organize ministers, and had been sitting in on Sunday services, and how he'd had to meet with Rev. Wright many times. How he'd told Rev. Wright he was Christian but not interested in organized religion, and Wright had backed off on inviting him to come worship. He was meeting with Wright when he saw a group of girls lined up waiting to go into a contemporary dance class, all in little matching dance outfits and with dance shoes. He remarked to the little girls that their costumes looked nice, and the girls told him that they had just gotten them from the church for advancing to level two. Obama asked Rev. Wright about why the church was offering dance classes and providing the costumes, and Wright explained that their are many children who couldn't afford the classes, but had interest and talent, so the church began to offer the classes so that they could have a sliding tuition scale. He said the church felt children born into poverty should be given an opportunity to develop whatever talents God had given them to help them get themselves out of the poverty cycle. After a while, the church noticed that some of these girls, no matter how talented or interested they were, would drop out right around the age where dance might help them most -- 13, 14. After looking into the reasons, they found that some of the girls at this age became ashamed that they didn't have the proper clothes or shoes, felt they weren't worthy to take classes from great dancers (they had many prominent African-American dancers guest teach). The church decided to reward the attendance and participation that ws required to move to the next level by providing uniforms. They didn't want to give some girls handouts and make them feel more different or ashamed, but they wanted them to have the opportunities, and it was the role of a church to serve all children as their own. Obama describes how this encounter started him thinking about what he was doing in community organizing, and how it fit.
Weeks later, Obama describes how he was attending Sunday services at Trinity as part of his Ministers Alliance work, and how it all came together for him...how without the meaning of Christianity, his work was without meaning, without a sense of community and shared responsibility, it could never work anyway. How the ideas of Jesus were the ideas of freedom and justice and equality. That we can't have freedom and justice for all if we aren't our brothers' and our sisters' keepers. He realized God was what was missing from his life, and why his work had begun to feel as if it lacked meaning. He said it came to him in a crystal clear moment, and he was moved to walk up the aisle and accept Christ.
He left Chicago not long after to attend Harvard Law. He wrote of the experience in 1993, when liberals weren't really talking about conversion experiences and people running for president didn't describe adolescent drug use and rebellion. I tend to think he was sincere, and that what attracted him to Trinity was not his pastor (who has lectured at Harvard School of Divinity and is considered important and mainstream enough to have been one of the ministers invited to the White House to counsel Bill Clinton after the Monica Lewinsky scandal), but the ministries of the church, the community outreach, the youth programs, the homeless outreach, the mix of people of all income levels. Also, I imagine the fact that the professionals and alumni of prestigious universities who attend services alongside working class and poor and mentor disadvantaged children, and help working class children with talent and promise through the process of admissions with help and encouragement so that they can join the ranks of professionals -- as they did for a young Michelle Obama -- probably attracted him as well.
So, is trying to give a hand up to the least among us Marxist? Were those sliding tuition scales and free costumes for those little girls socialist? I think it's Christian, but I guess you can call it Marxist. You can call the reasons behind giving alms to the poor and tithing Marxist, too. Liberation Theology is about giving a hand up to the oppressed. It's a belief that just as the Hebrew people had to go through the time in Egypt in order to make them stronger, god sometimes subjects his children to periods of repression in order to bring them closer to God in their liberation. What better way to encourage a child to turn away from the streets and crack, toward God, than to link the struggle of slavery and civil rights and racism as a struggle his people have and are overcoming, that his forefathers suffered to lift him up, and if he chooses thuggery, he loses his place at the right hand of the Father?
Further, you can keep throwing around the terms Marxist and Liberation Theology and sow the seeds of fear about something -- reverse racism? I don't know...if Obama wasn't a patriot, why would he have given up opportunities to make millions on Wall Street and instead have returned to a low-paying organizing job after Harvard? What is a patriot if it's not someone who loves his community and his country enough to devote his life to making it better? Why would someone whose family resembles a rainbow harbor the racial animosity you suspect of him? That sort of smear shows more about the sort of person you are than the sort Sen. Obama is.
I read about a study the other day that said in 7 of the last 8 national elections, more people had said they were voting against one candidate than voting for the candidate they'd supported. Meaning, more people had voted for George Bush to keep John Kerry from becoming president, or vice versa. More people voted out of fear than out of hope. How sad is that? And doesn't it explain so much about the gridlock and why our government is dysfunctional. People vote to keep something bad from happening, not to help make something good happen. The campaigns have been so negative, that the half those elected hate the other half. They go to Washington not with a mandate for change, but with a mandate to keep the other side from accomplishing any of it's goals. Our elected representatives get to Washington, and instead of joining together to address the needs of the American people, and once they agree on what's needed, engaging in lively debate about how to get there as they once did in the House and Senate, they retreat to their corners, and work in red camps and blue camps seeking to thwart each other.
So, Further...if you and Thomas Sowell via CCK want to talk about negative things about the candidate you don't support instead of positive things about the candidate you do support, you are perpetuating the fear that leads to negative voting and broken government. You are spreading the fear and the cynicism that anathema to the ideals of our country. I read your negative post, and I do not think Barack Obama is not a patriot, I think Further is not a Patriot!
Last edited:
