Gay Marriage - poll added

[TooFarTampa]

I think I'm saying the same thing as Punzy when I say that government should neither condemn nor recognize ANY sort of marriage. It's a religious institution. Government needs to butt out of it.

That is impossible in today's society -- between the tax laws, family rights in a hospital room, real estate purchases, 401k beneficiaries, etc, etc. Marriage is in actuality a government institution, at least in our society, way more than it appears to be a religious institution.

If you want to get down and dirty, I say grant everyone the right to a civil union and all the benefits that marriage currently entails. Then let churches, temples and mosques decide who is "married." Some heterosexual couples would not qualify, and a lot would not want to. IMO.

 

[NoHall]

That is impossible in today's society -- between the tax laws, family rights in a hospital room, real estate purchases, 401k beneficiaries, etc, etc. Marriage is in actuality a government institution, at least in our society, way more than it appears to be a religious institution.

If you want to get down and dirty, I say grant everyone the right to a civil union and all the benefits that marriage currently entails. Then let churches, temples and mosques decide who is "married." Some heterosexual couples would not qualify, and a lot would not want to. IMO.

You're talking to a single girl. I got no spousal benefits, and my blood relatives are the only people allowed in my hospital room. All I hear is "Blah blah blah."

Edit: All I hear is "Blah blah Fair Tax blah blah."

 

[olive]

It had always been very upsetting to me that I can get married and have children and it's hunky-dory. However, my best friend couldn't be married even if he wanted to. How is that fair? I think it is an antiquated ideal and I have a feeling it will be abandoned very soon. I think the overall attitudes towards gays and lesbians have changed substantially in the last few years. I'm hoping our government and other closed-minded folks will follow suit.

 

[TooFarTampa]

You're talking to a single girl. I got no spousal benefits, and my blood relatives are the only people allowed in my hospital room. All I hear is "Blah blah blah."

Edit: All I hear is "Blah blah Fair Tax blah blah."

UR funny.

But seriously. Olive is 100 percent correct. Anna Quindlen, who releases my inner liberal like nobody else on this planet, had a great column on this a couple of weeks ago. I am a huge, pompom waving Anna fan, mostly because she is a such a beautiful writer with so much heart. This column is one of my favorites. Judging from the comments, though, lots and lots of people didn't like it. Oh well. In 20 years it will not matter.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/139423

During his sophomore year in high school, one of our sons mentioned at the dinner table that a classmate had come out of the closet. I can't even remember which of the two boys it was, and that's not only because my memory is now so bad that I can reread mystery novels and not recall whodunit. It's because the announcement was such a big nothing among the kids that it was only slightly more noteworthy than "pass the mac and cheese." Unlike my own high-school friends, these kids took gay for granted.

One of the most transformative social movements over our lifetime has been the battle for gay rights, and the key to its great success has been the grass-roots phenomenon of exploding stereotypes by simply saying, "Yes, I am." Each time the woman at the next desk or the guy down the street lets it be known that he or she is gay, it takes another brick out of the wall of division. Or, as Ellen DeGeneres told John McCain on her show recently, "We are all the same people, all of us."

 

[NoHall]

That is impossible in today's society -- between the tax laws, family rights in a hospital room, real estate purchases, 401k beneficiaries, etc, etc. Marriage is in actuality a government institution, at least in our society, way more than it appears to be a religious institution.

If you want to get down and dirty, I say grant everyone the right to a civil union and all the benefits that marriage currently entails. Then let churches, temples and mosques decide who is "married." Some heterosexual couples would not qualify, and a lot would not want to. IMO.

Sure I'm funny, but I'm dead serious. Government should have no say in a religious union. Real estate can be purchased by two people with or without marriage. If I have beneficiaries in my life insurance who are not my spouse, I'm sure we can figure out something for 401Ks. Hospital rules can be adjusted. Health insurance needs to be torn to the ground anyway. And I sure as heck am not kidding about tax laws.

I'm freakin' hilarious, but spousal benefits are not funny to single folk. I am not amused by serial marry-ers who work the system. Marriage outside of religion has become a joke, and it's just not funny.

 

[TooFarTampa]

Sure I'm funny, but I'm dead serious. Government should have no say in a religious union. Real estate can be purchased by two people with or without marriage. If I have beneficiaries in my life insurance who are not my spouse, I'm sure we can figure out something for 401Ks. Hospital rules can be adjusted. Health insurance needs to be torn to the ground anyway. And I sure as heck am not kidding about tax laws.

I'm freakin' hilarious, but spousal benefits are not funny to single folk. I am not amused by serial marry-ers who work the system. Marriage outside of religion has become a joke, and it's just not funny.

But that is not gay people's fault.

I meant funny with your blah blah fair tax blah blah comment. I was not mocking your POV. Not at all! But marriage as we know it is a civil contract. If you want to just call it that, and open it to everyone, it is cool with me. Call it a civil union. "Marriage" can be harder to get. It can be boiled own to a simple (but important to many) ceremonial institution - as JR called it.

Now, the question is how to tell folks that got married on the beach by their friend the notary that they are not married, just civil unionized. I'm not saying it isn't going to be complicated. Your point is well taken, but at the same time, you cannot discount all the intricate legal things that happen when one obtains and acts upon a marriage license. Unwinding that is probably as difficult politically as getting average people to accept the idea of "gay marriage."

 

[Mango]

I just got back from dinner with MANgo and it was filled with love, laughter and tears from saying goodbye to a friend and his partner , and I felt truly blessed to be surrounded by these men. So, it's ironic this thread was started today. I suppose since living in New York and attending university in Greenwich Village, I have had quite a bit more exposure to the gay community. I also was raised in an Italian Catholic household. My feelings are that homosex uality is not a choice. The same way people are born a hermaph rodite, or with 9 toes, weight 10 lbs at birth, whatever the slight variances we all have, the same holds true with homos sexuality. So, my feeling is, if one believes in God, and if God created us, then the same given rights to heterosexuals should be given to homosexuals to marry. As far as I am concerned, I also take the Native Americans stance, in that they are created natural, and made as the Creater intended, for whatever their purpose that life holds for them. If that purpose includes a life partner, the union should be acknowledged legally and given the same rights as heterosexuals.

 

[30ashopper]

I just got back from dinner with MANgo and it was filled with love, laughter and tears from saying goodbye to a friend and his partner , and I felt truly blessed to be surrounded by these men. So, it's ironic this thread was started today. I suppose since living in New York and attending university in Greenwich Village, I have had quite a bit more exposure to the gay community. I also was raised in an Italian Catholic household. My feelings are that homosex uality is not a choice. The same way people are born a hermaph rodite, or with 9 toes, weight 10 lbs at birth, whatever the slight variances we all have, the same holds true with homos sexuality. So, my feeling is, if one believes in God, and if God created us, then the same given rights to heterosexuals should be given to homosexuals to marry. As far as I am concerned, I also take the Native Americans stance, in that they are created natural, and made as the Creater intended, for whatever their purpose that life holds for them. If that purpose includes a life partner, the union should be acknowledged legally and given the same rights as heterosexuals.

Yes, but how should that translate into law? Does the government have the right for force religious institutions to adopt that view?

 

[elgordoboy]

Sure I'm funny, but I'm dead serious. Government should have no say in a religious union. Real estate can be purchased by two people with or without marriage. If I have beneficiaries in my life insurance who are not my spouse, I'm sure we can figure out something for 401Ks. Hospital rules can be adjusted. Health insurance needs to be torn to the ground anyway. And I sure as heck am not kidding about tax laws.

I'm freakin' hilarious, but spousal benefits are not funny to single folk. I am not amused by serial marry-ers who work the system. Marriage outside of religion has become a joke, and it's just not funny.

Can you explain what the bold parts above mean? I am not getting the gist.

 

[NoHall]

But that is not gay people's fault.

I meant funny with your blah blah fair tax blah blah comment. I was not mocking your POV. Not at all! But marriage as we know it is a civil contract. If you want to just call it that, and open it to everyone, it is cool with me. Call it a civil union. "Marriage" can be harder to get. It can be boiled own to a simple (but important to many) ceremonial institution - as JR called it.

Now, the question is how to tell folks that got married on the beach by their friend the notary that they are not married, just civil unionized. I'm not saying it isn't going to be complicated. Your point is well taken, but at the same time, you cannot discount all the intricate legal things that happen when one obtains and acts upon a marriage license. Unwinding that is probably as difficult politically as getting average people to accept the idea of "gay marriage."

True dat, in both cases.

Can you explain what the bold parts above mean? I am not getting the gist.

Spousal benefits? I'll give you an example: Some tactless fool called me last week because he was after my job. I was nice enough to commiserate with him over the scarcity of jobs in his field, and then he piped up with, "But you don't have to provide for your family. What does your husband do, anyway?" I told him that when I meet my husband, I'll let him know. Meanwhile I pay all of the mortgage, utilities, repair bills and everything else all by myself.

It seems that marriage in our society has become a joke, and I'm wagging my finger at straight people. I'm talking about the weddings in Las Vegas that are annulled the next day. (Not that all people who are married in Las Vegas are drunk/stupid/whatever...) I'm talking about the folks who have been married so many times that their kids need a program to keep up with their step-relatives. I'm talking about women who go into marriages with a divorce settlement in mind.

Those are the extreme examples, I know. But how many people do you watch get married with the idea that if it doesn't work out they can always end it? (And before I upset 50% of the population, I realize that there are a LOT of divorced folk out there who don't fit my description. I realize that relationships are, by nature, very difficult.) But it's pretty sad that my brother and I are in the minority by having parents who have been married only to each other for the last 43 years.

Looking at the state of marriage in the U.S., I'm not so sure why gays and lesbians are so fired up about jumping into it. But if they are as committed as the likes of Hnooe and Mr. Hnooe (among others), more power to them. I wish them the best.


lol: I can't take these long breaks from SoWal anymore! I get all up on my high horse. Ignore me--I'll get over myself tomorrow!)