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Do you support gay marriage?

  • Yes

    Votes: 45 67.2%
  • No, for political reasons.

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • No, for religious reasons.

    Votes: 14 20.9%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 7 10.4%

  • Total voters
    67
I personally think that gay marriage should be legalized for many of the reasons outlined below.

But I know plenty of people who believe in a literal translation of the Bible and totally disagree with me. This website http://www.catholic.com/library/gay_marriage.asp explains the Catholic Church's opposition to gay marriage. It discusses marriage as both a public institution and a sacrament of the church, as has been mentioned in several posts on this thread.

Speaking of the Catholic Church, it is rumored that George and Laura Bush are about to convert to catholicism.
 

Chickpea

Beach Fanatic
Dec 15, 2005
1,151
366
30-A Corridor
I personally think that gay marriage should be legalized for many of the reasons outlined below.

But I know plenty of people who believe in a literal translation of the Bible and totally disagree with me. This website http://www.catholic.com/library/gay_marriage.asp explains the Catholic Church's opposition to gay marriage. It discusses marriage as both a public institution and a sacrament of the church, as has been mentioned in several posts on this thread.

Speaking of the Catholic Church, it is rumored that George and Laura Bush are about to convert to catholicism.

Except that too many people from all religions mis-use and mis-interpret the Bible, or Koran, etc.. to defend their indefensible positions (IMHO). To each their own I guess.....
 
Except that too many people from all religions mis-use and mis-interpret the Bible, or Koran, etc.. to defend their indefensible positions (IMHO). To each their own I guess.....
I have respect for those who believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible and don't want to disparage them. But for me, the Bible is allegorical -- a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms. I believe in the underlying spiritual meaning, but not every word in its concrete/literal form.

I'll never forget one Mother's Day when the minister read a verse from the Bible and discussed how the mission of a wife was to procreate. Doctors at Duke had told me that I would never be able to have a baby. So was I just a worthless human being? Of course not (although it made me cry). This is an example where focusing on the concrete and not the underlying spiritual meaning can cause people to reject religion if they are expected to literally believe every word in the Bible in my opinion. I know that many will disagree with me on this.

I digress. Sorry.
 

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,706
3,339
Sowal
Let?s say for example a gay couple is married in a state that supports it. The couple decide to go to school at a private catholic university and are refused acceptance or partner housing accommodations. Does the state have the right to force the university to accept the couple on the grounds they are discriminating against them and violating the law?

The hilarious thing about your post is that under the housing rules of most uber strict private catholic universities, it is much easier for partners of the same sex to live together in the dorms (where the opposite sex is verboten at certain hours to the extent that girls sneak their dads in to help assemble lofts before hours and a female friend w/ big feet was almost raided because she left her #10 running shoes in the hall).

Hetero friends whose spouses went to different schools were denied married housing, but gay friends happily lived together as roommates and got the bunks rocking long after our boyfriends got kicked out to protect our virtue! :rofl:
 

hnooe

Beach Fanatic
Jul 21, 2007
3,022
640
The hilarious thing about your post is that under the housing rules of most uber strict private catholic universities, it is much easier for partners of the same sex to live together in the dorms (where the opposite sex is verboten at certain hours to the extent that girls sneak their dads in to help assemble lofts before hours and a female friend w/ big feet was almost raided because she left her #10 running shoes in the hall).

Hetero friends whose spouses went to different schools were denied married housing, but gay friends happily lived together as roommates and got the bunks rocking long after our boyfriends got kicked out to protect our virtue! :rofl:

That would be a clever plot for a movie or sitcom.
 

Matt J

SWGB
May 9, 2007
24,861
9,665
Sorry I haven't posted sooner. If you want irony I was helping a friend cater a wedding on Saturday and am still a bit sore (physically).

To answer some of the questions that have come up I'll try answer them, but this may get long. DISCLAIMER: I do not represent every single gay person on Earth and some views may vary depending on the person.

Government vs. Religion: I don't want the government telling religions what to do just as much as I don't want religions telling the government what to do. Not all religions disallow gay marriage. Unitarian Universalists, United Church of Christ, and Metropolitan Community Church are among some that do allow, perform, and bless same sex unions. While the majority of religions do still have an strong stance against gay marriage many have become more tolerant and some (Episcopalians) have even performed same sex unions. I agree with hnoee that if me and Mr. SWGB were to have a ceremony we most likely wouldn't have it at St. Rita's or Seagrove Baptist nor would we seek any sort of legal remedy to do so.

Marriage vs. Civil Unions: If I remember correctly one core belief in the United States is that we are created equal. In that spirit why should my commitement and love for someone be labeled any differently than anyone else? Last I checked no one owns the copyright on the term marriage.

Why get married? Well for one reason when a couple of opposite sexes is married they have immediate legal rights:
- Make medical decisions for one another in the event one cannot make one on their own.
In the event of an emergency I would have to, most likely, produce a legal document showing that my partner would in fact like me to make medical decisions on his behalf. If a male/female couple were to enter an emergency room and one stated they were the others married spouse no questions would be asked no proof required they it would simply be accepted. I would like that as well.
- Health Care.
While some most large corporations provide "domestic partner" benefits most smaller business's cannot. The simply reason is the cost. When I worked at SallieMae many eon's ago they began offering this and many did not utilize it due to the paperwork and cost. A person in a "traditional" marriage simply checked that box on their insurance forms and paid the slightly higher premium. I would have had to fill out a declaration of partnership stating that we were in fact a gay couple and had been together for at least a year. My friend who sat next to me could marry any random woman off the street and as soon as the ink dried on the marriage certificate she would be eligible for benefits. I would continue to pay my health insurance premium (which is a pre-tax deductible) and then pay after taxes for my partner at a higher rate. SallieMae did have a slight heart and actually offset the difference in the premium, but I was still be taxed on the money when another male/female couple would not.
- Legal reasons.
A male/female married couple cannot be forced to testify against each other. A same sex couple can. I'm not involved in the mob or a criminal, but in the off chance that something ever did happen I would like to know that one of us wouldn't have to flee the country or sit in jail on contempt charges.

Ultimately we could fill out literally hundreds of pages of legal documents to have the same rights as a married couple, but that costs a lot more than a marriage license. Currently a gay couple needs at minimum:
-Power of attorney
-Living will
-Last will and testament
If the couple has kids this list grows real quick.

As to the argument that tax laws would need to be changed and this would take considerable money and time, I say BS! Just like a marriage certificate it is simply changing the words husband/wife to spouse/spouse. I'm just curious how difficult or expensive it would be for the IRS to run a find/replace on forms?
 

Bobby J

Beach Fanatic
Apr 18, 2005
4,041
601
Blue Mountain beach
www.lifeonshore.com
As to the argument that tax laws would need to be changed and this would take considerable money and time, I say BS! Just like a marriage certificate it is simply changing the words husband/wife to spouse/spouse. I'm just curious how difficult or expensive it would be for the IRS to run a find/replace on forms?


It will cost about a billion. Just a guess but I am probably close.
 

JustaLocal

Beach Fanatic
Jul 11, 2007
447
49
SRB
Ultimately we could fill out literally hundreds of pages of legal documents to have the same rights as a married couple, but that costs a lot more than a marriage license. Currently a gay couple needs at minimum:
-Power of attorney
-Living will
-Last will and testament
If the couple has kids this list grows real quick.

Coincidentally, that's what I have as a single person.
 

6thGen

Beach Fanatic
Aug 22, 2005
1,491
152
Well, since I?m the catalyst for the discussion, I?ll hit on it quickly. I personally oppose gay marriage based on what I said earlier. The slope has long since been slipped, but it?s a further ride down society?s definition of truth as subjective, rather than objective. That?s my main beef. Further, a family consisting of a father, mother and children is a cornerstone of social security (not Social Security). We are finally seeing backlash from the black community for slipping from such. Obama delivered an excellent speech over the weekend on the subject. Bill Cosby has been railing on it for years.

However, that?s not my argument. My argument is that it should be left to the legislative branch rather than the judicial branch, and left to the states rather than the federal government. If the people want to legislate same-sex marriage, let them eat cake. The main issue I have is courts usurping the state legislature?s authority to make laws, the people?s authority to make laws via initiative and referendum, and the legislature?s authority to repeal laws passed by popular vote by creating rights out of thin air. The recent California decision overturned a 61% majority of California voters in favor of affirming that marriage is the union between one man and one woman. California same-sex couples already had the health care benefits, the hospital visitation, etc. The court took it one step further to overthrow the people?s will on cultural norms that have been established on the basis of tradition, precedent and social-science evidence.
 
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