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Do you support gay marriage?

  • Yes

    Votes: 45 67.2%
  • No, for political reasons.

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • No, for religious reasons.

    Votes: 14 20.9%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 7 10.4%

  • Total voters
    67

tofu

Beach Lover
Dec 2, 2007
134
43

Care to explain WHY? :bang:

More correctly, you broke it into strawmen. My reason for saying that is grounded in reading years of social science research. Per his speech this weekend, Obama agrees as well (I know, weak). Again, that's way down the list on my hierarchy of argument.

Again, why don't you explain what you mean?

I don't care where it is on your "argument hierarchy," you used it in your argument and I am responding to it.

No, you threw out some terms you remembered from civil rights cases years ago. You didn't explain who granted the court jurisdiction on language, you didn't explain what portion of the law the law overturned violated, you didn't address article II, section 10 of the state constitution.

I'm stating what the supreme court justices themselves said. They ruled in majority for that.

As for the elgordoboy comment, I'm asking if he thinks the only reason I haven't come around to moral relativism is experience. In other words, does he believe it is inevitable and if I don't come around I haven't had enough "experience".

Do you mean you're assuming he thinks the only reason you haven't "come around" to moral relativism is experience?
 

tofu

Beach Lover
Dec 2, 2007
134
43
No. You should have asked if I'm against cotton-poly blends, since that has scriptural basis in old Hebrew law. For the record, I'm not. New covenant and stuff.

I'm glad to know my pants are cool with the supreme moral authority. I was starting to get worried there.

Have any moral advice on the couch I'm sitting on? It's some fake microfiber stuff. I don't want to go to hell or anything.
 

elgordoboy

Beach Fanatic
Feb 9, 2007
2,507
888
I no longer stay in Dune Allen
Are you saying that eventually I'll come around on moral relativism? There are a lot of dead people that disagree with you.
That statement appears relativistic and not absolute, framing what I "say" in contrast to what a lot of dead people think. I can guess what dead people you mean before you begin to toss out philosophers' names in an attempt to obfuscate the issue, engaging in clumsy verbal prestidigitation that is sloppily designed to intimidate and overwhelm. Reading many of your posts mainly causes my eyes to glaze over and drool to begin flowing out of the left side of my mouth. You accuse people of not answering questions when oftentimes the questions are irrelevant. I admire your nuts though, you got a big set.
 

LuciferSam

Banned
Apr 26, 2008
4,749
1,069
Sowal
I'm glad to know my pants are cool with the supreme moral authority. I was starting to get worried there.

Have any moral advice on the couch I'm sitting on? It's some fake microfiber stuff. I don't want to go to hell or anything.

I think I'm beginning to understand. I Believe that 6thgen feels that morality must have some unwavering spiritual basis, and the one that he happens to choose represents the truth. As a nation, we all need to adopt those beliefs.

Never mind that this basis was all made up and defined by man. Even if you believe that it is backed by some higher superpower, it is still man's interpretation of that power's intent. Never mind that everyone will interpret the scriptures differently. According to him there is no subjectivity involved in this process even though he and others make a concientious choice to go with this approach.
 

TooFarTampa

SoWal Insider
Adolescents in intact families, as a group, are the least likely to feel depressed compared to those with divorced, step-, cohabiting, or single parents; (National Longitudinal Survey of Adolescent Health). ...

I think that one of the main advantages of an "intact family" is that in most cases, if the family is really intact, the parents are on the same page WRT values, parenting decisions, ways to handle difficult issues, etc. In my limited experience (ages 1-8) I think this might be the MOST important factor in raising a child to have an all-around healthy outlook. I have seen a number of intact families where the parents aren't doing their jobs, and the kids are miserable; of course "broken" families only add to the likelihood that boundaries have not been set, parents are bickering and not agreeing on how to raise the child, etc.. Feeling loved is the most important thing, but being held to a clear set of boundaries and knowing that both parents are in agreement I think is the second most important thing.

I don't see how loving gay parents wouldn't count as an intact family, though it may not exactly be what you have envisioned. Once you become a parent you start to really understand "cause and effect," and of course, by the time the youngest is 18, you have it all figured out. :lol: While I continue to find it fascinating how individual children respond to and learn from both a mom and a dad, that's not to say that there are not other successful family models. In the lesbian couple I know, one of the women is CLEARLY "the dad." It is actually pretty funny. :D
 

Matt J

SWGB
May 9, 2007
24,861
9,665
6thgen, a few questions.

Do you have any gay/lesbian relatives or friends? Think real hard on this one.
Does the church you attend allow you to read the bible or is it read to you in a foreign language that you don't understand?

Having said that I'd like to address a few points.

Homophobia = The fear of being gay, not the fear of homosexuals.

I in all honesty cannot even begin to listen to or offer credibility to a person who states they are christian and then quotes verses from the old testament to admonish or damn gays/lesbians. Flat out can't deny it unless you were there that Jesus never said anything for or against homosexuals. I personally believe that if it was truely as big a deal as some make it out to be he might have found a moment in his time on Earth to bring it up. If you are a christian than you follow the teachings of Jesus hence the NEW testament. If I'm going to hell for lying with a man as with a woman then you best put down that oyster, shrimp cocktail, poly cotton blend, or make sure you know exactly which fields those crops your eating are grown in; otherwise we'll be debating this in the same place for eternity.

Here's some fun reading as well http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.com/

As to the issue of not knowing any gay people in school, I can assure you, you did. Unfortunately it may not have been a matter of them coming out later in life, fact is that gay/lesbian teenagers have the highest rate of suicide. A very good friend of mine killed himself because he couldn't reconcile it. He was a football player, honor student, and Eagle scout. In his suicide note he stated and I quote, "It hurts to much to go on. I know that suicide is a sin, but so is being gay". That statement will forever be blazened in my mind. His parents were more disturbed by that than the fact that their only child was gay.

As to the issue of PDA's, get over it. Me and my other half aren't going to neck in the amphitheatre at Seaside, but I might just hold his hand. If your child says something explain it. Believe it or not most children will take something as simple as sometimes a man and a man or a woman and a woman fall in love. 99% of the time it stops there, some people seem to think that a child still in the age range to believe in the stork suddenly wants to know about sex. It generally also means that they have just been given the most tolerant and accepting statement a child could ever hear in regards to this issue. It's not going to get them excited about trying it or thinking about it. If it does, guess what, you've got a gay/lesbian child.

To the issue of family can only be a mother, father, and children. Phooey. I have plenty of friends that I consider family. In addition there is no evidence that having gay parents leads children to become gay. In fact they generally turn out straight. I happen to know several gay couples with children and most are grown and straight. They are perfectly normal, functional, contributing members of society. Should we start a list of folks who had two heterosexual parents that didn't really turn out all that great, that's gonna be lengthy and I'm pretty sure that this board has a word limit per post.

Ash, you seem like a very level headed guy, but get over the theory that every gay man is checking you out. If they are take the drink and compliment and politely explain that your not gay. Oh, let me know if this scenario ever actually happens. ;-)
 
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6thGen

Beach Fanatic
Aug 22, 2005
1,491
152
That statement appears relativistic and not absolute, framing what I "say" in contrast to what a lot of dead people think. I can guess what dead people you mean before you begin to toss out philosophers' names in an attempt to obfuscate the issue, engaging in clumsy verbal prestidigitation that is sloppily designed to intimidate and overwhelm. Reading many of your posts mainly causes my eyes to glaze over and drool to begin flowing out of the left side of my mouth. You accuse people of not answering questions when oftentimes the questions are irrelevant. I admire your nuts though, you got a big set.

Nice use of a thesaurus, but you didn't answer the question (see?). Is lack of experience the only reason for not accepting moral relativism?

Also, I've learned that it would be better to explain things to tofu (insulting comment that I was asked to remove), so I may try that in the future rather than verbal prestidigitation.
 
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6thGen

Beach Fanatic
Aug 22, 2005
1,491
152
I think I'm beginning to understand. I Believe that 6thgen feels that morality must have some unwavering spiritual basis, and the one that he happens to choose represents the truth. As a nation, we all need to adopt those beliefs.

No, we don't. We already did. See the preamble to the Constitution. Who did we establish endowed man's rights?
 

Chickpea

Beach Fanatic
Dec 15, 2005
1,151
366
30-A Corridor
What a depressing thread to read.... no wonder the US is in the mess it is with issues of morality being constantly debated. Trying to convince someone who thinks homosexuality is immoral is a dead end task and I admire those of you trying to do this - best of luck!
 

Gypsea

Beach Fanatic
Jul 10, 2005
1,497
111
Pittsburgh, PA; Watercolor
I have been at a family reunion in Ohio this weekend and now my children and grandchildren are in town, so not much time to read any posts but I did start reading this one, and have now only read through the first three pages but I am generally heartened by what I have read. Thank you swgb for starting this. Now I am off to make bran muffins for the babies. Will be back next week and may check in now and then. I hate to get too far behind on whats going on. :wave:
 
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