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John R

needs to get out more
Dec 31, 2005
6,780
828
Conflictinator
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/weather/06/27/north.pole.melting/index.html

(CNN) -- The North Pole may be briefly ice-free by September as global warming melts away Arctic sea ice, according to scientists from the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colorado.
Scientists say it's a 50-50 bet that the thin Arctic sea ice will completely melt away at the geographic North Pole.

Scientists say it's a 50-50 bet that the thin Arctic sea ice will completely melt away at the geographic North Pole.

"We kind of have an informal betting pool going around in our center and that betting pool is 'does the North Pole melt out this summer?' and it may well," said the center's senior research scientist, Mark Serreze.

It's a 50-50 bet that the thin Arctic sea ice, which was frozen in autumn, will completely melt away at the geographic North Pole, Serreze said.

The ice retreated to a record level in September when the Northwest Passage, the sea route through the Arctic Ocean, opened briefly for the first time in recorded history.

"What we've seen through the past few decades is the Arctic sea ice cover is becoming thinner and thinner as the system warms up," Serreze said.

Specific weather patterns will determine whether the North Pole's ice cover melts completely this summer, he said.

"Last year, we had sort of a perfect weather pattern to get rid of ice to open up that Northwest Passage," Serreze said. "This year, a different pattern can set up. so maybe we'll preserve some ice there. We're in a wait-and-see mode right now. We'll see what happens."

The brief lack of ice at the top of the globe will not bring any immediate consequences, he said.

"From the viewpoint of the science, the North Pole is just another point in the globe, but it does have this symbolic meaning," Serreze said. "There's supposed to be ice at the North Pole. The fact that we may not have any by the end of this summer could be quite a symbolic change."

Serreze said it's "just another indicator of the disappearing Arctic sea ice cover" but that it is happening so soon is "just astounding to me."

"Five years ago, to think that we'd even be talking about the possibility of the North Pole melting out in the summer, I would have never thought it," he said.

The melting, however, has been long seen as inevitable, he said.

"If you talked to me or other scientists just a few years ago, we were saying that we might lose all or most of the summer sea ice cover by anywhere from 2050 to 2100," Serreze said. "Then, recently, we kind of revised those estimates, maybe as early as 2030. Now, there's people out there saying it might be even before that. So, things are happening pretty quick up there."

Serreze said those who suggest that the Arctic meltdown is just part of a historic cycle are wrong.

"It's not cyclical at this point. I think we understand the physics behind this pretty well," he said. "We've known for at least 30 years, from our earliest climate models, that it's the Arctic where we'd see the first signs of global warming.

"It's a situation where we hate to say we told you so, but we told you so," he said.

Serreze said the Arctic sea ice will not be the same for decades.

"If we had a few cold years in a row, we could put sort of a temporary damper on it, but I think at this point going to an ice-free Arctic Ocean is inevitable," he said. "I don't think we can stop that now."

Reduced greenhouse gas emissions could "cool things down a bit," he said.

"It would recover fairly quickly, but it's just not going to happen for a while," he said. "I think we're committed at this point."

There are some positive aspects to the ice melting, he said. Ships could use the Northwest Passage to save time and energy by no longer having to travel through the Panama Canal or around Cape Horn.

"There's also, or course, oil at the bottom of the Arctic Ocean," he said. "Now, the irony of that is kind of clear, but the fact that we are opening up the Arctic Ocean does make it more accessible."

The U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center Web site, NSIDC.org, publishes a near-real-time image of the Arctic sea ice cover.
 

hnooe

Beach Fanatic
Jul 21, 2007
3,022
640
I am beginning to think that even all scientists are now wearing partisan party labels in addition to their extensive scientific education and backgrounds--they are now divided into two camps: the Republican Scientists, and the Democratic Scientists (haven't heard from the Libertarian Scientists yet?).

Can this country not come together on anything without a partisan "label"...oil drilling Repubs. VS non oil drilling Dems., global warming Dems/global cooling Repubs, Repub Supreme Court justices VS Democratic Supreme Court justices.

Can we all just get along and approach things just as concerned U.S. Citizens again? :dunno:
 
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Beemn

Beach Lover
Jan 1, 2006
89
3
so wal
Come on now! Republican scientist? Is there such a thing?
 

traderx

Beach Fanatic
Mar 25, 2008
2,133
467
I am willing to bet good money that the Arctic will not be ice free anytime soon. Any takers? Even if it does, big deal. It has been estimated that if all the Arctic ice melted, it would cause only a four mm rise in sea level.

If GW explains the loss of Arctic ice, then pray tell, what explains the increased ice in Anarctica?
 

hnooe

Beach Fanatic
Jul 21, 2007
3,022
640
Come on now! Republican scientist? Is there such a thing?

Ok Ok youre' right.... hmmm, come to think of it, I don't think there are really any Republican comedians either, except maybe Dennis Miller, but maybe he is a Libertarian comedian.
 
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traderx

Beach Fanatic
Mar 25, 2008
2,133
467
Ok Ok youre' right.... hmmm, come to think of it, I don't think there are really any Republican comedians either, except maybe Dennis Miller, but maybe he is a Libertarian comedian.


Now, now....

Drew Carey is Republican as is Pat Sajak. Clint is a Libertarian and he is funny... Republicans in Hollywood have learned to keep a low profile. I will never forget when Pat Sajak was a guest on Larry King. King kept asking him over and over and over: so you are a Republican? It was almost like he was asking Sajak why he was cruel to animals. John O'Hurley is a Republican. There are a few more but it is true that Republicans are as rare in Hollywood as they seem to be in SoWal...:yikes:
 

hnooe

Beach Fanatic
Jul 21, 2007
3,022
640
Now, now....

Drew Carey is Republican as is Pat Sajak. Clint is a Libertarian and he is funny... Republicans in Hollywood have learned to keep a low profile. I will never forget when Pat Sajak was a guest on Larry King. King kept asking him over and over and over: so you are a Republican? It was almost like he was asking Sajak why he was cruel to animals. John O'Hurley is a Republican. There are a few more but it is true that Republicans are as rare in Hollywood as they seem to be in SoWal...:yikes:

Drew Carey?..wow..he's cool, I love him......Pat Sajak :dunno:--uhmmm I dunno?
 

Matt J

SWGB
May 9, 2007
24,862
9,670
Come on now! Republican scientist? Is there such a thing?

Yes, but no degree needed. The answer to everything is, "God did it"

Ok Ok youre' right.... hmmm, come to think of it, I don't think there are really any Republican comedians either, except maybe Dennis Miller, but maybe he is a Libertarian comedian.

No, Dennis Miller is just an idiot. :roll:
 

maark

Beach Comber
Jun 22, 2008
14
10
santa rosa beach
Can we all just get along and approach things just as concerned U.S. Citizens again? :dunno:

Judging from the messages that follow you do not really want us all to become "concerned citizens". The messages that follow indicate you appear to not respect any part of the other point of view. You seek total aggreement with your opinion, not compromise as a concerned citizen. So we are not a "concerned U. S. citizen" unless we apree with you. Moreover, those that do not aggree are limited in intelect to such an extent that they could never aspire to become a scientist.

My experience has led me to believe that you do not make a statement like that and IMMEDIATELY start belittling those you wish to join you as a concerned citizen.

Certtainly neither side will listen if you begin your argument by saying how dumb the other side is. I have no facts to back it up but I would guess that scientists are pretty well split between the right and left. I aggree that actors and intertainment folks are largely left but I would not take that as a point of pride.

Bottom line - compromise is most likely the way forward for this country but compromise is not getting everyone to move over to the left side of the aisle.
Limbaugh and Rather would never get anything accomplished... except for more polarization. The world is not an eighth grade playground where groups of people get together to support each other and belittle others. It is time for all of us to grow up.
 
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