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30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,845
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Right here!
Come on, people, traderx is from Columbus and used to work with my dad. He's a good guy. Obama's gonna grow on him. I just know it! :funn:

Okay, maybe not. Still....

Was there anything in the speech of substance that anyone found objectionable or truly great?

I liked that he challenged NATO to provide more help in Afghanistan. I also like the renewed call to move away from nuclear weapons...I thought that was pretty brave politically (back home). I also thought the writing and the historical references were moving.

I also have to give credit to the guys on the right for not implying the Kenyan goat herder calls from the Kenyan students near the stage were Muslim chanting. At the time, I cringed thinking that would be the first thing someone bashed. I'm glad that everyone seems to be above that cheap shot. I thought it was great timing. He smiled at relaxed after that.

I am a little unnerved about about all this new global world order talk. There is just something I don't trust about this guy. I'm not convinced he has our best interests at heart.
 

hnooe

Beach Fanatic
Jul 21, 2007
3,022
640
When America is no longer feared or hated its hegemony will be at an end and many "conservatives" (if I must label) realize and fear this, so America being reviled means we are still on top. Some days I disagree with them and some days I do not.


Good point, and understood...I don't think of it as America's needing to be "feared"..I would say we are losing (have lost) a lot of respect in the last 8 years--that is a REAL weakness, and as dangerous as an over-streched military.
 

hnooe

Beach Fanatic
Jul 21, 2007
3,022
640
Come on, people, traderx is from Columbus and used to work with my dad. He's a good guy. Obama's gonna grow on him. I just know it! :funn:


.


I am totally thrilled with traderx's posts, he adds intelligent balance, and I very much enjoy reading his point of view on subjects, always!
 

GoodWitch58

Beach Fanatic
Oct 10, 2005
4,810
1,923
Come on, people, traderx is from Columbus and used to work with my dad. He's a good guy. Obama's gonna grow on him. I just know it! :funn:

Okay, maybe not. Still....

Was there anything in the speech of substance that anyone found objectionable or truly great?

I liked that he challenged NATO to provide more help in Afghanistan. I also like the renewed call to move away from nuclear weapons...I thought that was pretty brave politically (back home). I also thought the writing and the historical references were moving.

I also have to give credit to the guys on the right for not implying the Kenyan goat herder calls from the Kenyan students near the stage were Muslim chanting. At the time, I cringed thinking that would be the first thing someone bashed. I'm glad that everyone seems to be above that cheap shot. I thought it was great timing. He smiled at relaxed after that.

I think he had the proper balance of pride and humility...IMO what we need to move away from the "cowboy" approach of the last eight years.
I am not surprised that he would not make huge policy statements or requests in that venue.
I also liked his approach to the idea of a global world...and that we all are "partners" whether by design or default. It is a different way of looking at the world--and I believe many people, especially young people, no matter where they live, understand that we have already moved to this new world, whether we completely understand it or not.

He has a broader vision and a wider approach to solving problems. He looks forward, not back. And, while it may be risky and a bit scary to some or many, IMO it is a better strategy than more of the same.
 

rapunzel

Beach Fanatic
Nov 30, 2005
2,514
980
Point Washington
Good point, and understood...I don't think of it as America's needing to be "feared"..I would say we are losing (have lost) a lot of respect in the last 8 years--that is a REAL weakness, and as dangerous as an over-streched military.

It was nice to see people waving American flags in another country, especially since they weren't on fire.
 

30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,845
3,471
59
Right here!
Been reading too much of the Left Behind series? :D

Haven't read that elgordo, but from the description on Wikipedia I don't think I'd enjoy it. :D It's just that any time someone starts talking about what's best for the world and how that should supersede what's best for the country, I get nervous. Where should our interests lie? Should we place the good of all countries above the good of our own, or should helping other nations take a back seat to the self preservation of our own ideology? I think taking the former approach ends up decreasing our ability to have an impact because our idiology is what drives us in a direction that allows us to help.
 

rapunzel

Beach Fanatic
Nov 30, 2005
2,514
980
Point Washington
When America is no longer feared or hated its hegemony will be at an end and many "conservatives" (if I must label) realize and fear this, so America being reviled means we are still on top. Some days I disagree with them and some days I do not.

Ah, the old Machiavellian question -- is it better to be feared or loved?

I had to think on that one a while, because I know what you are saying. Honestly, though, what I felt when watching the speech was America's "we will not go gently into that good night" moment. We will not go the way of the British empire, and every empire before. We will not be fat and happy and smug and forget our ideals. We will lead, we will be a beacon of light.

He drew more than 200,000 Germans to hear him speak, to cheer him, to cheer our bedrock ideals. He drew more people than any German or European politician could have.

Contrast that to Bush's trip. We weren't feared, we were jeered. It was the beginning of the end of our time as a world leader....yesterday Germans showed this is the man they view as the potential next leader of the free world. Bush hasn't led the free world, he's alienated it.
 

Jdarg

SoWal Expert
Feb 15, 2005
18,039
1,984
I think he had the proper balance of pride and humility...IMO what we need to move away from the "cowboy" approach of the last eight years.
I am not surprised that he would not make huge policy statements or requests in that venue.
I also liked his approach to the idea of a global world...and that we all are "partners" whether by design or default. It is a different way of looking at the world--and I believe many people, especially young people, no matter where they live, understand that we have already moved to this new world, whether we completely understand it or not.

He has a broader vision and a wider approach to solving problems. He looks forward, not back. And, while it may be risky and a bit scary to some or many, IMO it is a better strategy than more of the same.

I agree -I don't see how having good, respectful, working relationships with other countries is a bad thing.

It was nice to see people waving American flags in another country, especially since they weren't on fire.

No kidding. It was refreshing to see people applaud someone from the USA!
 

GoodWitch58

Beach Fanatic
Oct 10, 2005
4,810
1,923
JDarg, I agree with you; but I know there are many out there who say he is too risky...55% according to one poll I read...

I think the risk is worth it; especially if we have good, respectful relationships with other countries...and, especially if we are doing something different than what we have had for the last 8 years.
 
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