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Miss Kitty

Meow
Jun 10, 2005
47,011
1,131
71
What I pay monthly to insure my family is greater than what I pay to keep a roof over their heads.

It is unbeleiveable how much the premiums costs and how little they pay my doctors after they negotiate charges. Insurance is a necessary evil, but I feel fortunate to be able to afford it.
 

rancid

Beach Fanatic
Aug 9, 2006
270
68
LONDON (Dow Jones)--Four kidney cancer drugs cannot be recommended as a cost
effective treatment under the U.K.'s National Health Service, the agency that
decides which treatments are made available in the publicly funded healthcare
system said Thursday. The National Institute of Clinical Excellence, or
NICE, said in a preliminary recommendation that Roche Holding AG's (RHHBY)
Avastin, Bayer AG's (BAY.XE) Nexavar, Pfizer Inc.'s (PFE) Sutent and Wyeth's
(WYE) Torisel shouldn't be used for patients with advanced renal cell
carcinoma, the most common type of kidney cancer in adults. NICE said that
although these treatments are clinically effective, their cost to the NHS is
such that they are not a cost-effective use of resources. NICE publishes
appraisals of whether particular medicines should be considered worthwhile by
the National Health System in England and Wales. These appraisals - which
are reached after consultations with experts, drug companies, doctors and
patients - are based primarily on cost-effectiveness and are closely watched
by other governments and health insurers.

These products, Sutant and Nexavar, are two which my wife has been on since diagnosed with advanced renal cell carcinoma. The first one, Sutant shrunk her kidney tumor to a size that made surgery possible. The second one, Nexavar, she is on now, hoping to make the nodules in her lungs stabilzed or smaller. Her prognosis on her last check up was good and we will know more by the end of August after our next trip to M.D. Anderson. My point is this. Under a British type health care system, she might well be dead by now due to the fact treatment is based on whether treatment is "cost effective" or not. In our system, many patients are given these medications through grants from the American Cancer Society, pharmaceutical companies and other charitable sources. Is a British or Canadian system of health care what you really want? Not me, thank you. We can make needed improvements to our present system that would be much better.


These sort of points are designed to play on ones emotions not intellect. Not a good way to fix the healthcare dilemma in my opinion. If you want a more locally pertinent story that argues for universal healthcare see this link 40 year old mom sent home to die - SoWal Beaches Forum
 

30A Skunkape

Skunky
Jan 18, 2006
10,313
2,349
55
Backatown Seagrove
These sort of points are designed to play on ones emotions not intellect. Not a good way to fix the healthcare dilemma in my opinion. If you want a more locally pertinent story that argues for universal healthcare see this link http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?p=447474#post447474

Nonsense. Andy gives a specific diagnosis and cites experience while the case you cite provides nothing of the sort. I am certain there is more to Florida Girl's story than what is being revealed.
 

30A Skunkape

Skunky
Jan 18, 2006
10,313
2,349
55
Backatown Seagrove
These sort of points are designed to play on ones emotions not intellect. Not a good way to fix the healthcare dilemma in my opinion. If you want a more locally pertinent story that argues for universal healthcare see this link http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?p=447474#post447474

And actually, this 'close to home' event should give those who advocate state administration of healthcare great pause. The critical question that proponents need to answer is 'why would a physician feel the need to play hanky panky with medicaid billing?'. There is a very good reason and it has little to do with greed. http://defuniakherald.com/?p=263
 

rancid

Beach Fanatic
Aug 9, 2006
270
68
Prices are high in the US. In fact, I believe our health care per capita is the most expensive in the world. Such statistics are fodder for those who advocate universal care. However, we also have the best healthcare in the world. How many folks send their sons or daughters to Canada to have brain surgery?

Here is the irony: prices are high in the US precisely because the government is already involved so much in healthcare thru Medicare and Medicaid plus all the regulatory stuff. We have arrived at a point where business is villified and government is championed as the solution. All one need do is look at the industries run by government to see what the solution set may look like.


What are you basing your comment "best healthcare in the world" on?
Check are infant mortality rates. Most quantifiable (sp) methods that incorporate the entire population do not place us as number 1 in the world.
See more:
  • Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990.
  • Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960.
  • Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.
  • Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana.
  • Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.
  • Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation.
 

Miss Kitty

Meow
Jun 10, 2005
47,011
1,131
71
What are you basing your comment "best healthcare in the world" on?
Check are infant mortality rates. Most quantifiable (sp) methods that incorporate the entire population do not place us as number 1 in the world.



See more:
  • Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990.
  • Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960.
  • Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.
  • Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana.
  • Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.
  • Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation.

Unfortunately, our great country has become morbidly obese because of food choices and poverty. Some go without proper healthcare. We have every convenience known to make life easier and use them, which in turn lessens exercise. We depend on our cars to drive two blocks to the store. We drink, smoke and ingest bad drugs. We are so stressed out everyday just living our lives. "Success" is killing us.
 
Last edited:

rancid

Beach Fanatic
Aug 9, 2006
270
68
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2007/NEW01644.html

Reading a little more about this medication puts things more into perspective. I believe the purpose of the original post is to insinuate that one may be cured if only they were allowed the best and latest medications. The patients in the clinical trial for this medication were diagnosed with Stage 4 Renal cell carcinoma. The study used to approve this medication increased survival on average from 7 to 10 months. Furthermore overall mortality was unchanged.

Basically, this is a $20000-30000 treatment that increases someones end of life by 3 months. It may sound harsh to question this as being a cost effective use of our healthcare dollars , but it is a necessary question.

As a society we need to understand that these costly treatments that only minimally prolong our lives are being paid from somewhere whether it is the government or the private sector. An honest discussion on the benefit of this kind of treatment to society as a whole and to the individual being treated would be more constructive than posting a drmatic sounding comment on the big bad government withholding medicines from patients to save money( a practice , I might add, that private insurers have become quite adept at)
 

traderx

Beach Fanatic
Mar 25, 2008
2,133
467
What are you basing your comment "best healthcare in the world" on?
Check are infant mortality rates. Most quantifiable (sp) methods that incorporate the entire population do not place us as number 1 in the world.


See more:
  • Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990.
  • Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960.
  • Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.
  • Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana.
  • Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.
  • Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation.

The US is a nation of immigrants ergo we have a mix of cultural and racial backgrounds which can adversely affect the above statistics. We also have cultural norms that contribute to poor health, and I am sad to say, Southern cooking with lard and fatback are good examples. Such lifestyle characteristics can be measured in mortality tables and the like but it does not measure the quality of healthcare.

I spent some time at Emory and you see folks from all over the world with serious conditions. They are in the US, not Sweden, Canada or the UK.
 

elgordoboy

Beach Fanatic
Feb 9, 2007
2,507
888
I no longer stay in Dune Allen
The US is a nation of immigrants ergo we have a mix of cultural and racial backgrounds which can adversely affect the above statistics. We also have cultural norms that contribute to poor health, and I am sad to say, Southern cooking with lard and fatback are good examples. Such lifestyle characteristics can be measured in mortality tables and the like but it does not measure the quality of healthcare.

I spent some time at Emory and you see folks from all over the world with serious conditions. They are in the US, not Sweden, Canada or the UK.
Shut yo' mouf'.
 

traderx

Beach Fanatic
Mar 25, 2008
2,133
467
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