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rancid

Beach Fanatic
Aug 9, 2006
270
68
The US is a nation of immigrants ergo we have a mix of cultural and racial backgrounds which can adversely affect the above statistics. We also have cultural norms that contribute to poor health, and I am sad to say, Southern cooking with lard and fatback are good examples. Such lifestyle characteristics can be measured in mortality tables and the like but it does not measure the quality of healthcare.

I spent some time at Emory and you see folks from all over the world with serious conditions. They are in the US, not Sweden, Canada or the UK.


My question is still the same. What are you basing your claim of "best healthcare in the world" on? If you are only counting the care available to the wealthiest percentage of the population, then comparing that to the similar cohort in other countries would most likely still not make us the best healthcare in the world.

We may have the most treatment options for the sick but our preventive care is abysmal compared to the rest of the western world. Access to care is a big part of this. I will agree that lack of education , poverty, and personal apathy are factors in not utilizing good preventive care. It never ceases to amaze me how a little prevention would save so much money and lives later on.

Take heart disease, the number one killer in this country. Simple access to weight management therapy, smoking cessation therapy, cholesterol lowering medications, and BP medications would have a huge impact on health. Instead of paying $100000 for treatment of an MI , society could invest $3-4000 in preventive care and get the same results. This is the real reason we lag behind countries with universal health care, IMHO.

We need health care for everyone in this country. I dont care if the private sector or the government or some combination of the two provide it. We all pay for it in the long run and we are choosing the most expensive and inefficient way possible to get it.
 

traderx

Beach Fanatic
Mar 25, 2008
2,133
467
My question is still the same. What are you basing your claim of "best healthcare in the world" on? If you are only counting the care available to the wealthiest percentage of the population, then comparing that to the similar cohort in other countries would most likely still not make us the best healthcare in the world.

We may have the most treatment options for the sick but our preventive care is abysmal compared to the rest of the western world. Access to care is a big part of this. I will agree that lack of education , poverty, and personal apathy are factors in not utilizing good preventive care. It never ceases to amaze me how a little prevention would save so much money and lives later on.

Take heart disease, the number one killer in this country. Simple access to weight management therapy, smoking cessation therapy, cholesterol lowering medications, and BP medications would have a huge impact on health. Instead of paying $100000 for treatment of an MI , society could invest $3-4000 in preventive care and get the same results. This is the real reason we lag behind countries with universal health care, IMHO.

We need health care for everyone in this country. I dont care if the private sector or the government or some combination of the two provide it. We all pay for it in the long run and we are choosing the most expensive and inefficient way possible to get it.

Okay, my proof is as follows. Following your precedent of posting brute statistics with no analysis or interpretation, I can post statistics which prove that the US spends more per capita on healthcare than any other country, thereby proving we have the best healthcare in the world.
 

hnooe

Beach Fanatic
Jul 21, 2007
3,022
640
.....And some U.S Hospitals have a habit of "dumping" (sometime literally, on the sidewalk) critically sick people who show up in the hospital emergency room without insurance. Not sure they would do that in Canada.

Canada VS U.S Healthcare--it's a draw.
 

Bdarg

Beach Fanatic
Jul 11, 2005
341
200
Point Washington
Okay, my proof is as follows. Following your precedent of posting brute statistics with no analysis or interpretation, I can post statistics which prove that the US spends more per capita on healthcare than any other country, thereby proving we have the best healthcare in the world.

I have a car I will sell you for $10,000,000, I will even throw in tax and license fees, therefore you can have the best car in the world.

Deal?
 

traderx

Beach Fanatic
Mar 25, 2008
2,133
467
I have a car I will sell you for $10,000,000, I will even throw in tax and license fees, therefore you can have the best car in the world.

Deal?

Tell you what.... Throw in full coverage car insurance including medical payments and you have a deal. With my driving record, it would be a bargain.
 

Miss Critter

Beach Fanatic
Mar 8, 2008
3,397
2,125
My perfect beach
Okay, my proof is as follows. Following your precedent of posting brute statistics with no analysis or interpretation, I can post statistics which prove that the US spends more per capita on healthcare than any other country, thereby proving we have the best healthcare in the world.

That's a joke, right?
 

Bdarg

Beach Fanatic
Jul 11, 2005
341
200
Point Washington
Tell you what.... Throw in full coverage car insurance including medical payments and you have a deal. With my driving record, it would be a bargain.

Tell you what, I will even throw in the concrete blocks it is setting on.
 

Santiago

Beach Fanatic
May 29, 2005
635
91
seagrove beach
.....And some U.S Hospitals have a habit of "dumping" (sometime literally, on the sidewalk) critically sick people who show up in the hospital emergency room without insurance. Not sure they would do that in Canada.

Canada VS U.S Healthcare--it's a draw.

I'm not doubting you but would you care to back that up? And not with one case, its the habit part that I find interesting.
 

Miss Critter

Beach Fanatic
Mar 8, 2008
3,397
2,125
My perfect beach
From Reuter's January 8, 2008:

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN0765165020080108?sp=true

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - France, Japan and Australia rated best and the United States worst in new rankings focusing on preventable deaths due to treatable conditions in 19 leading industrialized nations, researchers said on Tuesday.

If the U.S. health care system performed as well as those of those top three countries, there would be 101,000 fewer deaths in the United States per year, according to researchers writing in the journal Health Affairs.

Researchers Ellen Nolte and Martin McKee of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine tracked deaths that they deemed could have been prevented by access to timely and effective health care, and ranked nations on how they did.

They called such deaths an important way to gauge the performance of a country's health care system.

Nolte said the large number of Americans who lack any type of health insurance -- about 47 million people in a country of about 300 million, according to U.S. government estimates -- probably was a key factor in the poor showing of the United States compared to other industrialized nations in the study.

"I wouldn't say it (the last-place ranking) is a condemnation, because I think health care in the U.S. is pretty good if you have access. But if you don't, I think that's the main problem, isn't it?" Nolte said in a telephone interview.

In establishing their rankings, the researchers considered deaths before age 75 from numerous causes, including heart disease, stroke, certain cancers, diabetes, certain bacterial infections and complications of common surgical procedures.

Such deaths accounted for 23 percent of overall deaths in men and 32 percent of deaths in women, the researchers said.

France did best -- with 64.8 deaths deemed preventable by timely and effective health care per 100,000 people, in the study period of 2002 and 2003. Japan had 71.2 and Australia had 71.3 such deaths per 100,000 people. The United States had 109.7 such deaths per 100,000 people, the researchers said.

After the top three, Spain was fourth best, followed in order by Italy, Canada, Norway, the Netherlands, Sweden, Greece, Austria, Germany, Finland, New Zealand, Denmark, Britain, Ireland and Portugal, with the United States last.

PREVIOUS RANKINGS

The researchers compared these rankings with rankings for the same 19 countries covering the period of 1997 and 1998. France and Japan also were first and second in those rankings, while the United States was 15th, meaning it fell four places in the latest rankings.

All the countries made progress in reducing preventable deaths from these earlier rankings, the researchers said. These types of deaths dropped by an average of 16 percent for the nations in the study, but the U.S. decline was only 4 percent.

The research was backed by the Commonwealth Fund, a private New York-based health policy foundation.

"It is startling to see the U.S. falling even farther behind on this crucial indicator of health system performance," Commonwealth Fund Senior Vice President Cathy Schoen said.

"The fact that other countries are reducing these preventable deaths more rapidly, yet spending far less, indicates that policy, goals and efforts to improve health systems make a difference," Schoen added in a statement.

(Editing by Cynthia Osterman)
 

traderx

Beach Fanatic
Mar 25, 2008
2,133
467
Tell you what, I will even throw in the concrete blocks it is setting on.

Okay, I have two cars on blocks in my front yard. One can never have enough concrete blocks. Plus they help to block the trailer from tornadoes. Admission here: I am kinda skeered of tornadoes but not nearly as much as earthquakes. Earthquakes really make me nervous.
 
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