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MattChrist Live

Beach Lover
Jan 16, 2008
205
147
The Bay
Found this interesting...
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ECONOMIC VIEW
Is History Siding With Obama’s Economic Plan?


By ALAN S. BLINDER
Published: August 30, 2008

CLEARLY, there are major differences between the economic policies of Senators Barack Obama and John McCain. Mr. McCain wants more tax cuts for the rich; Mr. Obama wants tax cuts for the poor and middle class. The two men also disagree on health care, energy and many other topics.

Such differences are hardly surprising. Democrats and Republicans have followed different approaches to the economy for as long as there have been Democrats and Republicans. Longer, actually. Remember Hamilton versus Jefferson?

Many Americans know that there are characteristic policy differences between the two parties. But few are aware of two important facts about the post-World War II era, both of which are brilliantly delineated in a new book, “Unequal Democracy,” by Larry M. Bartels, a professor of political science at Princeton. Understanding them might help voters see what could be at stake, economically speaking, in November.

I call the first fact the Great Partisan Growth Divide. Simply put, the United States economy has grown faster, on average, under Democratic presidents than under Republicans.

The stark contrast between the whiz-bang Clinton years and the dreary Bush years is familiar because it is so recent. But while it is extreme, it is not atypical. Data for the whole period from 1948 to 2007, during which Republicans occupied the White House for 34 years and Democrats for 26, show average annual growth of real gross national product of 1.64 percent per capita under Republican presidents versus 2.78 percent under Democrats.

That 1.14-point difference, if maintained for eight years, would yield 9.33 percent more income per person, which is a lot more than almost anyone can expect from a tax cut.

Such a large historical gap in economic performance between the two parties is rather surprising, because presidents have limited leverage over the nation’s economy. Most economists will tell you that Federal Reserve policy and oil prices, to name just two influences, are far more powerful than fiscal policy. Furthermore, as those mutual fund prospectuses constantly warn us, past results are no guarantee of future performance. But statistical regularities, like facts, are stubborn things. You bet against them at your peril.

The second big historical fact, which might be called the Great Partisan Inequality Divide, is the focus of Professor Bartels’s work.

It is well known that income inequality in the United States has been on the rise for about 30 years now — an unsettling development that has finally touched the public consciousness. But Professor Bartels unearths a stunning statistical regularity: Over the entire 60-year period, income inequality trended substantially upward under Republican presidents but slightly downward under Democrats, thus accounting for the widening income gaps over all. And the bad news for America’s poor is that Republicans have won five of the seven elections going back to 1980.

The Great Partisan Inequality Divide is not limited to the poor. To get a more granular look, Professor Bartels studied the postwar history of income gains at five different places in the income distribution.

The 20th percentile is the income level at which 20 percent of all families have less income and 80 percent have more. It is thus a plausible dividing line between the poor and the nonpoor. Similarly, the 40th percentile is the income level at which 40 percent of the families are poorer and 60 percent are richer. And similarly for the 60th, 80th, and 95th percentiles. The 95th percentile is the best dividing line between the rich and the nonrich that the data permitted Professor Bartels to study. (That dividing line, by the way, is well below the $5 million threshold John McCain has jokingly used for defining the rich. It’s closer to $180,000.)

The accompanying table, which is adapted from the book, tells a remarkably consistent story. It shows that when Democrats were in the White House, lower-income families experienced slightly faster income growth than higher-income families — which means that incomes were equalizing. In stark contrast, it also shows much faster income growth for the better-off when Republicans were in the White House — thus widening the gap in income.

The table also shows that families at the 95th percentile fared almost as well under Republican presidents as under Democrats (1.90 percent growth per year, versus 2.12 percent), giving them little stake, economically, in election outcomes. But the stakes were enormous for the less well-to-do. Families at the 20th percentile fared much worse under Republicans than under Democrats (0.43 percent versus 2.64 percent). Eight years of growth at an annual rate of 0.43 percent increases a family’s income by just 3.5 percent, while eight years of growth at 2.64 percent raises it by 23.2 percent.

The sources of such large differences make for a slightly complicated story. In the early part of the period — say, the pre-Reagan years — the Great Partisan Growth Divide accounted for most of the Great Partisan Inequality divide, because the poor do relatively better in a high-growth economy.

Beginning with the Reagan presidency, however, growth differences are smaller and tax and transfer policies have played a larger role. We know, for example, that Republicans have typically favored large tax cuts for upper-income groups while Democrats have opposed them. In addition, Democrats have been more willing to raise the minimum wage, and Republicans have been more hostile toward unions.

The two Great Partisan Divides combine to suggest that, if history is a guide, an Obama victory in November would lead to faster economic growth with less inequality, while a McCain victory would lead to slower economic growth with more inequality. Which part of the Obama menu don’t you like?

Alan S. Blinder is a professor of economics and public affairs at Princeton and former vice chairman of the Federal Reserve. He has advised many Democratic politicians.
 

GoodWitch58

Beach Fanatic
Oct 10, 2005
4,810
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This brings up the question that I can not understand: why the people(mostly working class white --W. Va., western Pa, Miss.) who stand to lose the most economically from the Republican policies vote for the Republicans...

in my research the only answer I can find is the cultural one: Religion, guns, and Choice. It is interesting to study and seems only to have begun after the mid-sixties.

Good informtion, Matt, thanks for posting.
 
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Chickpea

Beach Fanatic
Dec 15, 2005
1,151
366
30-A Corridor
This brings up the question that I can not understand: why the people(mostly working class white --W. Va., western Pa, Miss.) who stand to lose the most economically from the Republican policies vote for the Republicans...

in my research the only answer I can find is the cultural one: Religion, guns, and Choice. It is interesting to study and seems only to have begun after the mid-sixties.

Good informtion, Matt, thanks for posting.

Goodwitch - that is THE question I can NEVER understand - that so many people vote agiainst their own economic self interests and I think you nailed the answer - but you forgot MORALS (the line so many people uttered by helping usher in Bush for a second term!) - and as we all know Bush has been quite the moral leader (NOT!!).

I have no interest in legislating morrality - that is up to families and churches.

Great article.
 

rapunzel

Beach Fanatic
Nov 30, 2005
2,514
980
Point Washington
It's branding, and the drumbeat of "they'll raise the taxes of the rich, and by 'rich' they mean you!" There was a study done that showed 67% of Americans believed they are in the fifth quintile (top 20%) of income earners. Obviously, people tend to self-identify as rich, and perhaps don't realize where their economic interests lie in this election.

These should be our mantras--

  • If you make less than $227,000 per year, your taxes will go down under Obama.
  • If you make between $227,000 and $603,000 your taxes will not be impacted.
  • If you make more than $603,000 you will see an increase in taxes.
  • The Obama plan is more fiscally responsible, and will strengthen the economy and the dollar, which will increase the real income of all Americans,
 

Miss Kitty

Meow
Jun 10, 2005
47,011
1,131
71
It's branding, and the drumbeat of "they'll raise the taxes of the rich, and by 'rich' they mean you!" There was a study done that showed 67% of Americans believed they are in the fifth quintile (top 20%) of income earners. Obviously, people tend to self-identify as rich, and perhaps don't realize where their economic interests lie in this election.

These should be our mantras--

  • If you make less than $227,000 per year, your taxes will go down under Obama.
  • If you make between $227,000 and $603,000 your taxes will not be impacted.
  • If you make more than $603,000 you will see an increase in taxes.
  • The Obama plan is more fiscally responsible, and will strengthen the economy and the dollar, which will increase the real income of all Americans,

:clap:...oh, yay...simple facts for the simple minded ( me). Is Obama's main goal to balance the budget with the tax increase? Would you agree that the "wealthy" population pays the most in taxes because of their tax rate? Or. do you believe that the "wealthy" does NOT pay their fair share?
 

dunefrog

Beach Lover
Aug 9, 2008
56
28
Most Americans (well over 50%) pay little or no federal INCOME taxes. The income tax is paid almost exclusively by the "rich" already. In fact, the top 1% of tax returns paid about the same amount of federal individual income taxes as the bottom 95% of tax returns.

However, the PAYROLL tax (aka FICA) is paid by all employees. But remember this is a Democrat pension program started by FDR (social security) and LBJ (medicare). It was sold to the American public as a way to ensure that Americans had a safety net in old age, sickness, or premature death of a spouse. All workers have to pay 7.6% and their company has to match another 7.6%. So that is over 15% that comes from the money available to pay the worker, that the worker never gets because the Democrats instituted FICA. If you don't believe this, start your own company and you will know it works this way. "Self-employment tax" is a little over 15%.

Now if a worker performs work that a company can afford to pay $50,000 for, here's how it would break down. The worker have 7.6% taken off the top for the employer paid FICA "benefit." Then the worker would have another 7.6% lopped off by the employee-paid FICA "tax." Then the worker would probably pay no INCOME taxes at all after deductions and credits. The worker is left with approx. $42,500. That's a lot of money ($7,500) to prop up two government programs that have been recognized as INSOLVENT for years.

So the federal tax burden on the "poor" is clearly a Democrat-created phenomenon.
 

MattChrist Live

Beach Lover
Jan 16, 2008
205
147
The Bay
I've been having a rigorous debate with a good friend of mine over the economic policies of Senators Obama and McCain. He, much like dunefrog, believes that the supposed tax burden on the poor is a "Democrat-created Phenomenon." Now, for the most part, my friend and dunefrog are correct. The Wealthiest Americans (approximately less than 1% of the population) do indeed pay the bulk of the taxes.

Republican thinking believes that tax cuts solve everything.

See, both John McCain and President Bush have made tax cuts the central theme to their campaigns, and both haven’t been lying either. The Bush Tax Cuts, (which the Maverick McCain once opposed) provided a disproportionate tax cut to the upper class (the bracket that 1-3% of Americans live in) while providing smaller cuts to the working middle class. True, the wealthier certainly do contribute more to the economy in monetary terms, but the middle and lower classes provide the foundation of the economy. If they’re not given financial relief, accomplishing the bedrock of the American dream (opening and growing their own business so they may one day join the ranks of the higher tax bracket) becomes harder to accomplish with a smaller income. That smaller income means less money is available to start up a business, and less money is available to provide for their family. Moreover, any student of history knows the economic importance the middle class plays.

In short, when the “rich keep getting richer, and the poor keep getting poorer” a stagnant economy soon follows. Those that blame the Republican party for our current mediocre economic situation are pointing at the right people. On the average, John McCain’s proposed tax policy will offer an average cut of 2%, while Barack Obama will offer an average cut of .3%. This disparity is due to John McCain’s disproportionate tax policy which will offer huge tax cuts to the uber wealthy (or .1% of national population) while Obama will increase taxes of the uber wealthy by up to 11.5%.

As someone who very much hopes to one day earn enough money to sit in the highest tax bracket, I can sympathize with claims of unfairness. After all, I worked my tail off in school, I paid my dues, why should I now have to support those which chose a lazier (or frankly, unluckier) path? Since ethical and moral reasoning may not work here, I’ll attempt to explain my answer in an economic sense: If the lower economic classes are having a harder time and spending less, than my business is hurting. If the lower economic classes aren’t given a chance to prosper (through hard work, mind you) then their children see little reason to try in school, and the present economy stagnates while inflation increases, then even life for me becomes more expensive.

The reason why I posted Mr. Blinder's argument is that he clearly explains the benefits of closing the inequality gap that defines "rich" and "poor." While some may point to Mr. Obama's plan as simply robbing Peter to pay Paul, the fact is this: A stronger Paul means a stronger Peter.
 

Jdarg

SoWal Expert
Feb 15, 2005
18,039
1,984
Excellent post Matt. Your clear and concise explanation makes total sense.

How's school?:wave: I bet you are thriving in the college atmosphere and all the brain stretching options that are easily found!
 

30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,845
3,471
59
Right here!
Any article that starts out like this - "Mr. McCain wants more tax cuts for the rich; Mr. Obama wants tax cuts for the poor and middle class." I know is biased so there's no point in reading it. Now if you can come up with an honest and non-partisan assessment of each plan, that I'll be more than happy to read.

I believe the Tax Policy Institude did a study of both plans. The summary was basically - both plans stand to run up the national debt to heights unseen. But, and this is important, McCain will be forced to work with the democrats in congress, Obama will have his way with them. Another good reason to vote McCain - Palin this November.
 
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TooFarTampa

SoWal Insider
Any article that starts out like this - "Mr. McCain wants more tax cuts for the rich; Mr. Obama wants tax cuts for the poor and middle class." I know is biased so there's no point in reading it. Now if you can come up with an honest and non-partisan assessment of each plan, that I'll be more than happy to read.

I believe the Tax Policy Institude did a study of both plans. The summary was basically - both plans stand to run up the national debt the heights unseen. But, and this is important, McCain will be forced to work with the democrats in congress, Obama will have his way with them. Another good reason to vote McCain - Palin this November.

There is something to be said for this point of view. But in my mind, on social issues, there is also something to be said for the idea that McCain is very likely to pick one or two Supreme Court judges that would be too conservative in my opinion. (I like the way the Court has been ruling lately.) I waver back and forth between these two litmus tests because they are the things that I most believe will affect the big picture.

That being said, you asked for honest assessments of each candidate's economic plan. I read a slightly abridged version of the following article in my newspaper this morning. It took a while to get through, but I thought it was fabulous and very nuanced. It is quite a meaty read but well worth it.

I came away from reading it with the feeling that Obama is a very thoughtful, intelligent person who welcomes analysis and multiple opinions. Here's a link, and I'll provide a few excerpts.

(Login required -- registration is free)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/magazine/24Obamanomics-t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin

On whether he is a free-spending liberal:

Some of the confusion stems from Obama?s own strategy of presenting himself as a postpartisan figure. A few weeks ago, I joined him on a flight from Orlando to Chicago and began our conversation by asking about his economic approach. He started to answer, but then interrupted himself. ?My core economic theory is pragmatism,? he said, ?figuring out what works.?

This, of course, is not the whole story. Invoking pragmatism doesn?t help the average voter much; ideology, though it often gets a bad name, matters, because it offers insight into how a candidate might actually behave as president. I have spent much of this year trying to get a handle on what is sometimes called Obamanomics and have come away thinking that Obama does have an economic ideology. It?s just not a completely familiar one. Depending on how you look at it, he is both more left-wing and more right-wing than many people realize.

On the deficit:

All of this raises the question of what will happen to the deficit. Obama?s aides optimistically insist he will reduce it, thanks to his tax increases on the affluent and his plan to wind down the Iraq war. Relative to McCain, whose promised spending cuts are extremely vague, Obama does indeed look like a fiscal conservative. But the larger point is that the immediate deficit isn?t as big as it was in 1992. Then, it was equal to 4.7 percent of gross domestic product. Right now it?s about 2.5 percent.

During our conversation, Obama made it clear that he considered the deficit to be only one of the long-term problems requiring immediate attention, and he sounded more worried about the others, like global warming, health care and the economic hangover that could follow the housing bust. Tellingly, he said that while he admired what Clinton did, he might have been more open to Reich?s argument ? even in 1993. ?I still would have probably made a slightly different choice than Clinton did,? Obama said. ?I probably wouldn?t have been as obsessed with deficit reduction.?

The article explains that while Obama taught law at the University of Chicago, he also immersed himself in learning more about the so-called Chicago School of economics. The writer notes that the university is "arguably the intellectual center of modern American economic conservatism," and Obama spent a lot of time talking to liberals who believed in the basic principles of the Chicago School, which is almost entirely market-based (think Reagan).

?The market is the best mechanism ever invented for efficiently allocating resources to maximize production,? Obama told me. ?And I also think that there is a connection between the freedom of the marketplace and freedom more generally.? But, he continued, ?there are certain things the market doesn?t automatically do.? In other words, free-market policy isn?t likely to dominate his agenda; his project would be fixing the market.

And it does seem to need fixing. For three decades now, the American economy has been in what the historian Sean Wilentz calls the Age of Reagan. The government has deregulated industries, opened the economy more to market forces and, above all, cut income taxes. Much good has come of this ? the end of 1970s stagflation, infrequent and relatively mild recessions, faster growth than that of the more regulated economies of Europe. Yet laissez-faire capitalism hasn?t delivered nearly what its proponents promised. It has created big budget deficits, the most pronounced income inequality since the 1920s and the current financial crisis. As Lawrence Summers, the former Treasury secretary and Rubin ally from the Clinton administration, says: ?We?ve probably done a better job of the last 20 years on the problems the market can solve than the problems the market can?t solve. We?re doing pretty well on the size of people?s houses and televisions and the like. We?re not looking so good on infrastructure and education.?

There is so much more, including detailed information on Obama's tax plans and the reasoning behind them.

I came away very impressed, and curious as to whether anything this detailed and nuanced has been written about McCain's plans.
 
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