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30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,845
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Right here!
Winnie, to give you the most direct of an answer as I can: The reason why so many people believe President-Elect Obama is inheriting a "mess" is because most humans have short term memories; like memories lasting up to 8 years. We had a budget surplus once, now we don't. We were relatively safe (at least we thought we were) and now we're not. When we looked into the international mirror, we saw a kind and just nation that had the world's best interest in mind, I still see this reflection, but unfortunately most of the international community does not.

Just one clarification - We never had a budget surplus, the surplus under Clinton was based on excess social security income. If you removed that from general accounting government throughout Clinton's 8 years was still spending more than it took in.

Folks, we have 10 days, 13 hours, and four minutes to figure out who's to blame. But after that, this young person is going to demand that for my generation's sake, we begin to look for the solutions on how we can help our neighbors, and ultimately ourselves.

David Brooks has a thoughtful post today detailing the new admin's solutions - it' doesn't look pretty at all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/opinion/09brooks.html
 

30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,845
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Right here!
my response to sending billions to new orleans was off the cuff. kind of like; since we're spending so much money on private financial institutions(without any accountability) and private auto manufacturers, why not send some down to a US municipality that could use some cash infusion? simple enough? and as to who should oversee the disbursements, isn't that the charge of FEMA? they're sure able to do a bang up job.

btw, i've never been drunk on bourbon street, or any other street in new orleans for that matter.

That's certainly coming. A few questions John - are you willing to foot the bill to rebuild NO via federal tax dollars? Do you feel you stand to benefit from those expenditures? Are you cool with the idea that unlike the bailouts so far, the money is given rather than lent?
 

30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,845
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Right here!
What i am hearing is folks say-
We need to keep Bush's promise in NO...

and other folks say-
That would be dumb because bad people would steal the money as always...

The point being missed, I believe, is-

When folks say that Bush left NO hanging and that we should allocate money to clean things up down there, fix the levees, rebuild, etc.

It is probably implied that when we dole out the funds that we should do so with adequate oversight and transparency so as to avoid corruption.

Weren't the levees rebuilt? I seem to remember news reports of the newly rebuilt levees not failing during the storms from this summer.
 

Geo

Beach Fanatic
Dec 24, 2006
2,740
2,795
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
Weren't the levees rebuilt? I seem to remember news reports of the newly rebuilt levees not failing during the storms from this summer.

Fair point.

But my understanding is that they were not built to standards beyond what we had prior to Catrina and that had last summer's storms been the equivelent of Catrina that they we would have had an equivelent failure of those levees.

Can anyone shed some light on this?
 

30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,845
3,471
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Right here!
Fair point.

But my understanding is that they were not built to standards beyond what we had prior to Catrina and that had last summer's storms been the equivelent of Catrina that they we would have had an equivelent failure of those levees.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

I believe I heard the same thing.
 

traderx

Beach Fanatic
Mar 25, 2008
2,133
467
Just one clarification - We never had a budget surplus, the surplus under Clinton was based on excess social security income. If you removed that from general accounting government throughout Clinton's 8 years was still spending more than it took in.

Maybe the best way to determine whether Clinton had a surplus or not is to track the national debt from his first day as President to his last. The Treasury website tracks our national debt on a daily basis. On the day Clinton was sworn in, our debt was $4.188 trillion. On his last day, the debt was $5.728 trillion.

I was unable to save a bookmark for the user generated page but link below is to the Treasury site. You can easily generate your own data.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np
 

Winnie

Beach Fanatic
Jul 22, 2008
695
213
Santa Rosa Beach
First, let me say that I have just come back from a wonderful dinner at a New Orleans Style restaurant in Gainesville celebrating our big win last night. I was in a joyous mood, because, you know, we're national champions (again :D), and I get to see some improv comedy later tonight. And then, wanting to kill time before the comedy show, I got on the computer and was somehow drawn, as if in a trance, straight to this thread.

And now my joy is gone.

Winnie, to give you the most direct of an answer as I can: The reason why so many people believe President-Elect Obama is inheriting a "mess" is because most humans have short term memories; like memories lasting up to 8 years. We had a budget surplus once, now we don't. We were relatively safe (at least we thought we were) and now we're not. When we looked into the international mirror, we saw a kind and just nation that had the world's best interest in mind, I still see this reflection, but unfortunately most of the international community does not.

Obama is not inheriting a "mess," he's inheriting a catastrophic quandary that has no simple or direct solutions-God help him. President Bush didn't cause all of our problems, nor could he have prevented many of them, but there has been a massive leadership vacuum since our Invasion of Iraq. The reason why you felt secure, confident, and glad that George W. Bush was elected President on September 11th, 2001, was because our President showed up and led that day, and the few days that followed.

Fulltime, I can't really take your word on your preeminence over all things New Orleans since the only thing I know about you is your posting name "fulltime." But while giving money to NO may not seem like the prudent or fiscally responsible thing to do in the aftermath of a calamitous hurricane, it does shore up any lingering physiological wounds. Imagine that instead of President Bush making a heroic return to Ground Zero shortly after the 9/11 attacks, he simply circled over the city a few days afterward in AF1, and then made a brief speech a month later promising federal help and attention, and then not keeping that full promise. I don't think Winnie would have been entirely comforted by the President then. She would have probably preferred Al Gore and a speech on the dangers of CF's in the atmosphere.

There are times for state solutions, and there are times for national solutions. We're in a crisis right now, and it's something that one state won't be able to solve on its own, nor is it a crisis that demands a revolution, nor a crisis where we can afford to simply sit back and let things go the way they've gone all in the name of a conservative ideology, rather than the realism of pragmatism. We're going need big government and we're going to need someone to hold our hand for a while. We'll be lucky if we get to mock the nobel winning economists today who ascribe to the keysnian view, and then get to decide whether continue down the perilous path of apathy once again.

Folks, we have 10 days, 13 hours, and four minutes to figure out who's to blame. But after that, this young person is going to demand that for my generation's sake, we begin to look for the solutions on how we can help our neighbors, and ultimately ourselves.

And I'm late for the Improv.

Thanks for the response. I'm sorry it stole your joy and hope that the Improv got it back for you!

It sounds like you are in a glass half empty frame of mind. Time to try some hope for a change. ;-)
 

Kurt

Admin
Oct 15, 2004
2,394
5,078
SoWal
mooncreek.com
Meanwhile, the Dutch are improving their engineering from the current standards of the 10,000 year flood (which I believe far exceeds NOLA standards) to a standard that will withstand a 100,000 year flood, in part due to expected sea level rises.

But they are socialists and pacifists, what do they know?
 

30A Skunkape

Skunky
Jan 18, 2006
10,314
2,349
55
Backatown Seagrove
Full Time-I agree with some of your comments and disagree with others. I would be interested on your opinion regarding the status of political corruption in New Orleans today, versus August, 2005.
 

John R

needs to get out more
Dec 31, 2005
6,780
828
Conflictinator
That's certainly coming. A few questions John - are you willing to foot the bill to rebuild NO via federal tax dollars? Do you feel you stand to benefit from those expenditures? Are you cool with the idea that unlike the bailouts so far, the money is given rather than lent?

a couple of you seem to only read what you want, or grab only the stuff you want to beat to death. look above, i indicated that my statement was made off the cuff, but full time wants to take it to the extreme, so ok. yes, i would rather see my tax dollars go to rebuilding a city that our government(bush) has pretty much moved past, than giving it to aig, Lehman, or the auto makers. I don't know how much more plain to make it. i have never disagreed with full time over the corruptness of govt in NO. maybe full time could be the administrator, since he appears beyond reproach. maybe he could come off his pedestal and look forward as to how the money could be administered without it going into the pockets of all the corrupt politicians he seems to know intimately. should we completely write NO off and let it be consumed by the swamp? maybe so, possibly the best thing that could happen to it. i'm sure i'll get some response from ft that i'm so naive, so be it, offer a solution for the town you love so much.

Lent?? 30ashopper, i will label you as naive if you think $1 of anything that has been disbursed to date will EVER be repaid. it is gone. do not delude yourself. we paid for salaries, vacations, parachutes, etc. i do not agree with that. if we're going to 'throw our money away', i'd rather throw it back into domestic programs that have been cut by your boy george.

let's remember to attack the issues and not the poster, as some have in the last 12 hours.

fulltime, anytime you feel we're ready to be awed by your credentials, go for it. we probably won't implode after reading them.
 
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