• Trouble logging in? Send us a message with your username and/or email address for help.
New posts

TooFarTampa

SoWal Insider
Did Crist support it because there was pork for FL? I just have no idea what is in this bill~~~~~~

Anyone know/have a clear picture on this?????

I think he supported it because state revenue is so low ... which I get, but he doesn't have to look so darned happy about it. :roll:
 

Smiling JOe

SoWal Expert
Nov 18, 2004
31,644
1,773
You have to compute according to households. Minor children and the poor would have a tough time coughing up $3k. We have a little more than 100 million households in America. That equates to ~ $10K per household.

Our national debt is already over $14 trillion (with a T) so now we will have total debt of $15 trillion. That equates to $143k per household.

Feel better? :bang:
At a glance that sounds a little off. You forgot to calculate the growing interest on that money, and you since gov't isn't good at eliminating gov't programs, once any new programs coming from this spending are started, they will be around forever, costing more money.
 

BeachSiO2

Beach Fanatic
Jun 16, 2006
3,294
737
A few thoughts from inside the beltway.

One, this bill was primarily negotiated by House Dems, Senate Dems and Senate Repubs last night. House Repubs are irrelevant.

Two, the Sentate staff is already working on a second stimulus package.

Three, the overall discretionary spending will top 3 trillion this year via the 09 approps, 10 approps, stimulus 1, Tarp 1, and stimulus 2/tarp 2. The Iraq comparison will become irrelevant. Then again, when do two wrongs make a right?

Four, Pelosi is not happy with education funding (it's too low for her tastes)

Five, the ratio of tax cuts to spending is currently 35% to 65%. Same as the senate compromise.

Six, no one involved in the Senate appropriation committee actually belives this will be the last injection. See pt two.

Seven, SJ is not going to get a well thought response on whether it will work.

Eight, this bill is loaded down with programmatic pork, but not many direct earmarks. You say tomatoe, we say tomatoh.

Nine, the votes in both houses may be identical as long as Pelosi doesn't try to change much. See pt 4.

And finally, this bill has been overpromised and will underperform (per Senate approps staffer).
 

traderx

Beach Fanatic
Mar 25, 2008
2,133
467
At a glance that sounds a little off. You forgot to calculate the growing interest on that money, and you since gov't isn't good at eliminating gov't programs, once any new programs coming from this spending are started, they will be around forever, costing more money.

If we decide to pay our the debt over a ten year period at 6% interest, annual payments would exceed $2 trillion. With 105 million households, that equals $19,400 per household per year for ten years.

And these numbers presume that the deficit and all unfunded liabilties have been erased. Not likely.
 

Miss Kitty

Meow
Jun 10, 2005
47,011
1,131
70
:eek:

To All My Valued Employees,
>
> There have been some rumblings around the office about the future of
> this company, and more specifically, your job. As you know, the
> economy has changed for the worse and presents many challenges.
> However, the good news is this: The economy doesn't pose a threat to
> your job. What does threaten your job however, is the changing
> political landscape in this country.
>
> However, let me tell you some little tidbits of fact which might help
> you decide what is in your best interests.
> First, while it is easy to spew rhetoric that casts employers against
> employees, you have to understand that for every business owner there
> is a back story. This back story is often neglected and overshadowed
> by what you see and hear. Sure, you see me park my Mercedes outside.
> You've seen my big home at last year's Christmas party. I'm sure; all
> these flashy icons of luxury conjure up some idealized thoughts about
> my life.
>
> However, what you don't see is the back story.
>
> I started this company 28 years ago. At that time, I lived in a 300
> square foot studio apartment for 3 years. My entire living apartment
> was converted into an office so I could put forth 100% effort into
> building a company, which by the way, would eventually employ you.
>
> My diet consisted of Ramen Pride noodles because every dollar I spent
> went back into this company. I drove a rusty Toyota Corolla with a
> defective transmission. I didn't have time to date. Often times, I
> stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and
> partying. In fact, I was married to my business -- hard work,
> discipline, and sacrifice.
>
> Meanwhile, my friends got jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and made a
> modest $50K a year and spent every dime they earned. They drove flashy
> cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer clothes.
> Instead of hitting the Nordstrom's for the latest hot fashion item, I
> was trolling through the Goodwill store extracting any clothing item
> that didn't look like it was birthed in the 70's. My friends
> refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of luxury. I, however, did
> not. I put my time, my money, and my life into a business with a
> vision that eventually, some day, I too, will be able to afford these
> luxuries my friends supposedly had.
>
> So, while you physically arrive at the office at 9am, mentally check
> in at about noon, and then leave at 5pm, I don't. There is no "off"
> button for me. When you leave the office, you are done and you have a
> weekend all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have the freedom. I
> eat, and breathe this company every minute of the day. There is no
> rest. There is no weekend. There is no happy hour. Every day this
> business is attached to my hip like a 1 year old special-needs child.
> You, of course, only see the fruits of that garden -- the nice house,
> the Mercedes, the vacations... You never realize the back story and
> the sacrifices I've made.
>
> Now, the economy is falling apart and I, the guy that made all the
> right decisions and saved his money, have to bail-out all the people
> who didn't. The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel
> entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed a decade of
> my life for.
>
> Yes, business ownership has is benefits but the price I've paid is
> steep and not without wounds.
>
> Unfortunately, the cost of running this business, and employing you,
> is starting to eclipse the threshold of marginal benefit and let me
> tell you why:
>
> I am being taxed to death and the government thinks I don't pay
> enough. I have state taxes. Federal taxes. Property taxes. Sales and
> use taxes. Payroll taxes. Workers compensation taxes. Unemployment
> taxes. Taxes on taxes. I have to hire a tax man to manage all these
> taxes and then guess what? I have to pay taxes for employing him.
> Government mandates and regulations and all the accounting that goes
> with it, now occupy most of my time. On Oct 15th, I wrote a check to
> the US Treasury for $288,000 for quarterly taxes. You know what my
> "stimulus" check was? Zero. Nada. Zilch.
>
> The question I have is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me, the
> guy who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over
> 2,200,000 people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single
> mother sitting at home pregnant with her fourth child waiting for her
> next welfare check? Obviously, government feels the latter is the
> economic stimulus of this country.
>
> The fact is, if I deducted (Read: Stole) 50% of your paycheck you'd
> quit and you wouldn't work here.. I mean, why should you? That's nuts.
> Who wants to get rewarded only 50% of their hard work? Well, I agree
> which is why your job is in jeopardy.
>
> Here is what many of you don't understand ... to stimulate the economy
> you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Had suddenly government
> mandated to me that I didn't need to pay taxes, guess what? Instead of
> depositing that $288,000 into the Washington black-hole, I would have
> spent it, hired more employees, and generated substantial economic
> growth. My employees would have enjoyed the wealth of that tax cut in
> the form of promotions and better salaries. But you can forget it now.
>
> When you have a comatose man on the verge of death, you don't
> defibrillate and shock his thumb thinking that will bring him back to
> life, do you? Or, do you defibrillate his heart? Business is at the
> heart of America and always has been. To restart it, you must
> stimulate it, not kill it. Suddenly, the power brokers in Washington
> believe the poor of America are the essential drivers of the American
> economic engine. Nothing could be further from the truth and this is
> the type of change you can keep.
>
> So where am I going with all this?
> It's quite simple.
>
> If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, my reaction will be
> swift and simple. I fire you. I fire your co-workers. You can then
> plead with the government to pay for your mortgage, your SUV, and your
> child's future. Frankly, it isn't my problem anymore.
>
> Then, I will close this company down, move to another country, and
> retire. You see, I'm done. I'm done with a country that penalizes the
> productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to
> provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, will be my citizenship.
>
> If you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the economy; it will
> be at the hands of a political hurricane that swept through this
> country, steamrolled the constitution, and will have changed its
> landscape forever. If that happens, you can find me sitting on a
> beach, retired, and with no employees to worry about....
>
> Signed,
>
> Your boss
 

Bobskunk

Beach Lover
Jan 14, 2008
177
113
Some here have committed that they would hold the chosen one to the same standards as previous mortals, so here's another test. Amazingly, in a few weeks there have been many, including the parade of retread tax cheats.

Obamagod claimed that there was no pork in this ridiculous spending bill. Stimulus? Hardly.

You can go ahead and eat crow now, or wait until you are force fed pork, but either way, I don't think you can digest everything that's coming your way.

JohnR? Any thoughts?
 
From comments I heard today on CNN (a.k.a. former Obama worshippers) , there are many who say that if Obama sits back and lets Congress pass this horrible stimulus plan, his credibility as president is over. A four-year term.

How can we stop this bill from passing? I mean, I spend more time deciding on a nail polish color than has been spent on this.

Kitty, you are right. Many more jobs will be lost. This is why I have always voted Republican. The Democrats' tax and spend is proverbial. I realize that the Bush administration didn't fix things and messed up majorly by engaging us in a war that seemed right at the time, but later turned out to be based on flawed information. That's history. But FTLOG the Democrats are about to ice the cake and really mess us up with this hastily-put-together proposal.

I never dreamed that the stimulus attempt would be weighted down with pork. Somehow I had HOPE that Obama had more integrity than to let this happen. Maybe he is just not experienced enough to deal with the Washington crowd, and they are railroading him into what someone said is potentially the worst bill ever passed by the US Congress.
 

Bobskunk

Beach Lover
Jan 14, 2008
177
113
Sorry

This is my third attempt to post this, so I have abbreviated my earlier attempts.

I was truly disheartened by the name calling that President Bush endured, and rather than avoid being on that level, I took the opportunity to be a demigouge (or worse) in my last post.

I am not happy with the events of the past few weeks, but then again, what President has ever had to face a more eventful first few weeks. Rather than respond with cogent thoughts, I resorted to petty sniping, which is pretty unproductive.

Again, my earlier attempts were more detailed, but I'll just apologize for adding to the lack of civil discource.
 

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,706
3,339
Sowal
Miss Kitty, it's an interesting email, but since I love my boss and know what sacrifices he makes on my and my coworkers behalf, I just can't lay all the blame for the current situation on the politicians and the tax rates. The boss you describe in that email wouldn't have made it through the initial job interview with me because he's a douchebag I wouldn't want to work for, (quibble about that word all you want, I don't have another appropriate word that will make it past the filters).

My boss isn't going to leave the country w/ his business if he doesn't get tax cuts (he's an American FTLOG), he isn't driving a Mercedes, taking lavish vacations, or living in a a McMansion .............. he's me in 10 years w/ a family to support, a modest middle class home, a business to run, clients who aren't paying bills, and is frustrated as sheet that even though he's holding up his part of the bargain by paying his bills, paying his mortgages, being fiscally conservative, arriving at work before me and finishing his work after me, the banks who don't want to loan him money because of their other dumbarse loans to people who couldn't afford them, the stock market and his assets have tanked, and the hard working American is getting screwed like you wouldn't believe........unless you're actually one of them.

He's not going to hang his employees out to dry, he's foregoing his paycheck to make sure MY payroll checks don't bounce, he's negotiating to get me a better health care plan so that I save money, and giving me benefits even though my hours have been slashed so I technically don't qualify for them - that's the reality of the REAL American business that is built on hard work, people, careers, and honesty - not the 'short term money as the only qualifier' sheet they're talking about in out of context quotations, the big box store crap, the idiocy that seems to be taught in MBA programs, and what is unfortunately being held up as an example in these discussions.

Across the country, MY people are paying their taxes, their mortgages, and worrying about their bills, their children, and their future. We don't have large houses, new cars, expensive jewelry, or designer clothes. We pay for things with a check, pay off our mortgages early, and don't buy it if we can't pay for it. My first job (those years of babysitting don't count) was agricultural labor that involved a machete because I was too young (according to the government) for other jobs . Mama Scooterbug gets getting yelled at by me because she works a post-retirement job (after retiring from her regular job after 25 years and actually raising 2 kids), but doesn't go to the restroom all day or eat because she has customers she doesn't want to keep waiting. Papa Scooterbug worked for the same company his father started with and retired after more than 35 years with them. I (used to) have a full time job and then ran my own company in my spare time. We have jobs before we're old enough to technically work, jobs, 2nd jobs, post-retirement jobs, and get grief for our crazy ideas about what is right and wrong - but if the rest of the country was as crazy or hardworking as us, this crisis wouldn't exist.

We'll pay our tax bills like we always have, we'll plan for our own retirement and futures like we always have, we'll be the foundations of our community like we always have, and we'll be the ones that continue to pay for the people making profits at everyone's expense and working the system.

That's our reality.

You want to point fingers, you want to exaggerate partisan bickering, and you want to continuously divide us, but we're still Americans who need a solution, and we are getting screwed because people can't see the forest for the trees, and they've got a voice, but nothing good to say.

There's a possible solution on the table - we're not saying it IS THE solution, we're saying it's A solution, and that if it puts us and our neighbors back to work and keeps our country moving it's okay with us. We don't like it all, we know someone who wrote a check for a campaign is getting rewarded, we know our kids and grandkids will pay for it when we're done paying for it, and we wish none of it was necessary, but we know that common sense, reality, and what we want have always taken very different paths - it was part of the coursework at the 'school of hard knocks' we all attended.
 
New posts


Shop SoWal Photos

Sign Up for SoWal Newsletter