Skunky, you're right. Much better to bring in the bottles! My practice is in longterm care, so I forget about patients having actual bottles of pills! When I interview patients, they often are unaware of ALL of the medication and what each medication is used for! The patient teaching aspect of medicine is crucial with older adults...
Drug Pushers
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Skunky, you're right. Much better to bring in the bottles! My practice is in longterm care, so I forget about patients having actual bottles of pills! When I interview patients, they often are unaware of ALL of the medication and what each medication is used for! The patient teaching aspect of medicine is crucial with older adults...
It is also a big help to go to the appointment w/ the senior - this ensures that the right questions get asked and that the doctor's answers are heard properly. Many older people have a hypochondriac tendency or get fixated on one thing.
Mama Scooterbug even used to take a tape recorder so there was no dispute about what was said/dosages etc. when she was going over it later w/ other family members.
And to make sure the prescriptions are not on auto-refill, so that they don't end up with extra meds.
Mama Scooterbug even used to take a tape recorder so there was no dispute about what was said/dosages etc. when she was going over it later w/ other family members.
And to make sure the prescriptions are not on auto-refill, so that they don't end up with extra meds.
Dr S
Excellent points in the posts you and others made. Lots of useful tips. THX.
Ha - I've yet to see a single user of any drug - otc or prescription who knows anything about the product's pharmacology. ;-)
As far as RYR all I can say is that I have a circle of friends online and otherwise who have used it, or Niacin (as you said), or diet (I am one who lowered her cholesterol from 199 to 141 strictly by diet alone - I rarely take supplements) and others who have chosen to go the route of Zetia for example (some seem to tolerate that better than lipitor)
BTW, I can google RYR and muscle pain and come up with this:
muscle pain red yeast cholesterol - Google Search
and I can google Lipitor or statins and muscle pain and come up with this:
muscle pain lipitor cholesterol - Google Search
People clearly are having a lot of trouble with Lipitor and not so much with RYR.
My sister was prescribed Tricor - one day she called me from WalMart. She couldn't walk. She was scared to death. She had to call her dh to come get her (age 56 btw) I told her to ask her doc if it could be the Tricor messing with her muscles. He told her - in no uncertain terms - no. He got on the phone, in front of her, to schedule tests with a neurologist and my sister, thank goodness, butted in and asked the doc to ask the neurologist if it could be the Tricor and he said YES. So my sister got off of it but it took her a while before weakness was resolved.
I surely am not blaming all doctors. I say to the patient (and family members of patients) Know these drugs - prescribed or otc. Go home and look up drug before filling it. Ask questions. Keep a list with you and as was said, bring in bottles to visits. Research alternatives like I did. TELL doctor how you feel when you are on the medication. Perhaps just tweaking it would help. My mother in law dropped weight and was starting to feel drained - I suggested she phone her doctor and tell him she lost weight and might her prescription dosages be changed?
Back to subject - Mike's grandfather. So sorry all that happened. Perhaps, because you shared, someone else won't have to go through the same.
G
Dr S
Excellent points in the posts you and others made. Lots of useful tips. THX.
Ha - I've yet to see a single user of any drug - otc or prescription who knows anything about the product's pharmacology. ;-)
As far as RYR all I can say is that I have a circle of friends online and otherwise who have used it, or Niacin (as you said), or diet (I am one who lowered her cholesterol from 199 to 141 strictly by diet alone - I rarely take supplements) and others who have chosen to go the route of Zetia for example (some seem to tolerate that better than lipitor)
BTW, I can google RYR and muscle pain and come up with this:
muscle pain red yeast cholesterol - Google Search
and I can google Lipitor or statins and muscle pain and come up with this:
muscle pain lipitor cholesterol - Google Search
People clearly are having a lot of trouble with Lipitor and not so much with RYR.
My sister was prescribed Tricor - one day she called me from WalMart. She couldn't walk. She was scared to death. She had to call her dh to come get her (age 56 btw) I told her to ask her doc if it could be the Tricor messing with her muscles. He told her - in no uncertain terms - no. He got on the phone, in front of her, to schedule tests with a neurologist and my sister, thank goodness, butted in and asked the doc to ask the neurologist if it could be the Tricor and he said YES. So my sister got off of it but it took her a while before weakness was resolved.
I surely am not blaming all doctors. I say to the patient (and family members of patients) Know these drugs - prescribed or otc. Go home and look up drug before filling it. Ask questions. Keep a list with you and as was said, bring in bottles to visits. Research alternatives like I did. TELL doctor how you feel when you are on the medication. Perhaps just tweaking it would help. My mother in law dropped weight and was starting to feel drained - I suggested she phone her doctor and tell him she lost weight and might her prescription dosages be changed?
Back to subject - Mike's grandfather. So sorry all that happened. Perhaps, because you shared, someone else won't have to go through the same.
G
I can't get the links to work, but I can pretty much guess what you are getting at. You can get your information where you choose, but I am telling you I have never seen anything other than some mild crampy type stuff from statins that resolved with discontinuation. This class of medication has been widely used for years now and is very safe and highly effective.
I might also add that it is important that elderly use the same pharmacy for all their drugs because they have a computer system that monitors potential drug interactions that may be missed by seeing multiple specialists,who aren't as diligent as the Skunky's of the world.
Sometimes, the pharmacy misses it as well (I had a similar experience with CVS, but I got the inserts from the drugs, read them, found it, then called my doctor who said it was ok to mix the drugs with monitoring); but at least you have another line of defense by sticking with the same pharmacy.
Sometimes, the pharmacy misses it as well (I had a similar experience with CVS, but I got the inserts from the drugs, read them, found it, then called my doctor who said it was ok to mix the drugs with monitoring); but at least you have another line of defense by sticking with the same pharmacy.
Ditto. I have never had a patient who had residual effects from a statin. Usually just some discomfort, which stops immediately when the drug is withdrawn.
Hmmm not quit sure what you meant by that - just so you know, I am not searching for quaky websites bashing statins. Please don't get defensive. ;-)
I've had 3 close family members have issues where the doctors refused to believe there was a connection until they insisted. I am not insulting the entire profession and certainly, I understand that in your cases the patients seem to have nipped the problem in the bud by getting off at first instance of cramping, etc... I applaud your diligence.
Sorry those links didn't work. FYI here are numerous cases (hundreds) where people had such leg weakness that it was debilitating - and some, not all doctors, didn't make the connection because i am guessing, in their mind, most of their patients do quite well on the drug.
Here's just a small sample:
Lipitor and muscle weakness : Medications.com
G
PS I'll refrain from turning this into a statin thread - sorry Mike
Good luck with that. My guess from personal experienece is that you don't have a chance since the docs didn't outright kill him. In my dad's case I didn't approach the medical board but the towns best malpractice lawyer and to paraphrase him in one sentence, he didn't think it was that bad since my dad was still alive. It appears that outrageous incompetence isn't enough to punish someone if the patient is living afterwords, even though in a vegetative state or pretty much destroyed life.
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Mike,
I wish peace to you and your family as you deal with this difficult situation. I can relate--a close family member with a long history of heart medication polypharmacy and valve disease (from childhood rheumatic fever) started to develop edema, coughing, and fatigue a few years ago. These are TEXTBOOK symptoms of heart failure. He went to his family physician, who felt he had some kind of cold or flu, and prescribed an antibiotic. A week later, he collapsed and ended up in the ICU for 2 weeks, on a ventilator for most of it. It took the docs several days to realize he was in heart failure. I was vocal about my concerns right away, but because he and his wife were diehard always-trust-the-doctor people, they didn't question anything their docs said. And I even presented them with many studies indicating that statins can actually cause heart failure. Considering his valve issues, you'd think the docs would have explored another way of lowering his cholesterol without the statins.
Anyway, I completely agree with all those in this thread discussing the importance of taking responsibility for your own health, or for an advocate to represent an elderly patient. Polypharmacy and an exploding elderly population is becoming a larger and larger issue that we cannot ignore.
Over the past 10 years, I've developed and edited 6 nursing pharmacology textbooks for several large textbook publishers. This experience has opened my eyes to the negative impact of drug therapy...these books are essentially compendiums of managing side effects, yet physicians and nurses are taught that drug therapy is the basis of "health" care.
There may still be safe ways to improve your grandfather's quality of life and restore his dignity. For example, I wonder if a gentle detoxification program might help to clear out the toxins created by the narcotic, and improve brain function. Another thought is CoQ10 and fish oils.
But do some research...If you want to stick with researching possible solutions from only peer-reviewed journals, PubMed is a great resource: PubMed Home
You won't be able to read the entire journal article, but the abstract gives you a good synopsis to spur further research on the 'net.
Another thought is to find a doctor who specializes in treating the older adult (gerontologist)...they should be specialists in polypharmacy, and may have a good solution for handling the current situation. You can search for a more holistically oriented physician on various sites, too...here's one that I use a lot: ACAM Homepage - American College for Advancement in Medicine
Sending positive thoughts your way for peace and health to you and your grandfather,
ElenaMaria
I wish peace to you and your family as you deal with this difficult situation. I can relate--a close family member with a long history of heart medication polypharmacy and valve disease (from childhood rheumatic fever) started to develop edema, coughing, and fatigue a few years ago. These are TEXTBOOK symptoms of heart failure. He went to his family physician, who felt he had some kind of cold or flu, and prescribed an antibiotic. A week later, he collapsed and ended up in the ICU for 2 weeks, on a ventilator for most of it. It took the docs several days to realize he was in heart failure. I was vocal about my concerns right away, but because he and his wife were diehard always-trust-the-doctor people, they didn't question anything their docs said. And I even presented them with many studies indicating that statins can actually cause heart failure. Considering his valve issues, you'd think the docs would have explored another way of lowering his cholesterol without the statins.
Anyway, I completely agree with all those in this thread discussing the importance of taking responsibility for your own health, or for an advocate to represent an elderly patient. Polypharmacy and an exploding elderly population is becoming a larger and larger issue that we cannot ignore.
Over the past 10 years, I've developed and edited 6 nursing pharmacology textbooks for several large textbook publishers. This experience has opened my eyes to the negative impact of drug therapy...these books are essentially compendiums of managing side effects, yet physicians and nurses are taught that drug therapy is the basis of "health" care.
There may still be safe ways to improve your grandfather's quality of life and restore his dignity. For example, I wonder if a gentle detoxification program might help to clear out the toxins created by the narcotic, and improve brain function. Another thought is CoQ10 and fish oils.
But do some research...If you want to stick with researching possible solutions from only peer-reviewed journals, PubMed is a great resource: PubMed Home
You won't be able to read the entire journal article, but the abstract gives you a good synopsis to spur further research on the 'net.
Another thought is to find a doctor who specializes in treating the older adult (gerontologist)...they should be specialists in polypharmacy, and may have a good solution for handling the current situation. You can search for a more holistically oriented physician on various sites, too...here's one that I use a lot: ACAM Homepage - American College for Advancement in Medicine
Sending positive thoughts your way for peace and health to you and your grandfather,
ElenaMaria
Which toxin, specifically, would you target?