A Scary Mainstream Republican

[30ashopper]

Hi Idlewind, I agree that these countries don't have our best interests in mind and that they would like to see us destroyed. But the thing is- we are the ones invading and destroying countries. We are the ones who have actually used the nuclear weapons.

We have 20 times the weaponry of all other countries put together. We don't use our armed forces to protect ourselves and enforce our borders. We mettle with the affairs of others.

Religious extremism aside, it makes sense to me why we are hated and why others wish to do us harm.

Can u imagine if your family was eating on the patio at Red Bar and an unmanned drone from Russia killed all of them because they were trying to eliminate some Eglin officials dining at a neighboring table?

What would we think if Russia invaded and conquered Mexico or Canada wanting to replace their former forms of govt with something more along the lines of what Putin prefers?

We're hated right up to the point where someone needs our help, then we're loved. After we help them, we go back to being hated. If we didn't help them, we'd continue to be hated.

I agree though we do mettle too much. I'd like to see us pull back from the world militarily and see how well the world gets along without us.

 

[Geo]

Yeah, would love to see us practice some isolationism. Be selfish for a quarter century. The only part of what you said that I don't agree with is that I don't think we're ever not hated- even when we're helping/needed.

 

[30ashopper]

Yeah, would love to see us practice some isolationism. Be selfish for a quarter century. The only part of what you said that I don't agree with is that I don't think we're ever not hated- even when we're helping/needed.

The unfortunate side efect of being the greatest nation on earth. Everybody loves to hate #1.

 

[idlewind]

Hi Idlewind, I agree that these countries don't have our best interests in mind and that they would like to see us destroyed. But the thing is- we are the ones invading and destroying countries. We are the ones who have actually used the nuclear weapons.

We have 20 times the weaponry of all other countries put together. We don't use our armed forces to protect ourselves and enforce our borders. We mettle with the affairs of others.

Religious extremism aside, it makes sense to me why we are hated and why others wish to do us harm.

Can u imagine if your family was eating on the patio at Red Bar and an unmanned drone from Russia killed all of them because they were trying to eliminate some Eglin officials dining at a neighboring table?

What would we think if Russia invaded and conquered Mexico or Canada wanting to replace their former forms of govt with something more along the lines of what Putin prefers?

While this is not popular thought these days the simple truth is that the only way to be secure is to be the strongest and then be willing to ruthlessly protect and promote your interests. Using nuclear weapons in 1945 was in our best interests, it saved between 500,000- 1,000,000 American lives. Destroying other nations means to hurt us is in our interests, we must do it to protect ourselves.
We get in trouble when we attempt to use military power in ways that do not promote our interests. Bush's "nation building" comes to mind.
I would be angry and want revenge if my family was hurt while dining at the Red Bar. I expect my government to prevent that from happening by whatever means necessary. I assume every other nation will behave in the same way.

 

[Lake View Too]

While this is not popular thought these days the simple truth is that the only way to be secure is to be the strongest and then be willing to ruthlessly protect and promote your interests. Using nuclear weapons in 1945 was in our best interests, it saved between 500,000- 1,000,000 American lives. Destroying other nations means to hurt us is in our interests, we must do it to protect ourselves.
We get in trouble when we attempt to use military power in ways that do not promote our interests. Bush's "nation building" comes to mind.
I would be angry and want revenge if my family was hurt while dining at the Red Bar. I expect my government to prevent that from happening by whatever means necessary. I assume every other nation will behave in the same way.

Can't you and 30-A Shopper see the contradictions in your stance? We cannot invade countries and expect to be seen as liberators. We cannot destroy countries "to get the bad guys", and not destroy the good people in that country that we were supposedly trying to "liberate". The wars of the 21st century will all be insurgencies just like we are experiencing now. Unfortunately, in these kinds of wars, we have to go in with a major emphasis on "nation building" whether we like it or not. A lot of people think the reason we failed in Iraq is because, after six years, they still don't have electricity or clean water. All the weapons in the world won't help us until we commit to honestly helping the countries we choose to invade and destroy.

 

[30ashopper]

Can't you and 30-A Shopper see the contradictions in your stance? We cannot invade countries and expect to be seen as liberators. We cannot destroy countries "to get the bad guys", and not destroy the good people in that country that we were supposedly trying to "liberate". The wars of the 21st century will all be insurgencies just like we are experiencing now. Unfortunately, in these kinds of wars, we have to go in with a major emphasis on "nation building" whether we like it or not. A lot of people think the reason we failed in Iraq is because, after six years, they still don't have electricity or clean water. All the weapons in the world won't help us until we commit to honestly helping the countries we choose to invade and destroy.

We didn't fail in Iraq.

 

[idlewind]

Can't you and 30-A Shopper see the contradictions in your stance? We cannot invade countries and expect to be seen as liberators. We cannot destroy countries "to get the bad guys", and not destroy the good people in that country that we were supposedly trying to "liberate". The wars of the 21st century will all be insurgencies just like we are experiencing now. Unfortunately, in these kinds of wars, we have to go in with a major emphasis on "nation building" whether we like it or not. A lot of people think the reason we failed in Iraq is because, after six years, they still don't have electricity or clean water. All the weapons in the world won't help us until we commit to honestly helping the countries we choose to invade and destroy.

There is absolutely no contradiction in my stance. I said what we do should be for our reasons and in our best interests. I do not wish to liberate anyone, if they want freedom they must attain it themselves. I believe in supporting them and helping them as much as possible but absolutely am against fighting for them. The 1st Iraq War was perfect, go in, kick a**, take names and leave.
If they don't have electricity or clean water that is their problem to fix, we have14 trillion problems of our own to work on.

 

[beachFool]

We didn't fail in Iraq.

Our invasion of Iraq substantially smashed Iraq's military and on that point we certainly did succeed.

Tactically it was a roaring success but we blew it when we didn't send in sufficient troops to keep the peace.

But the unintended consequence was that by removing Saddam we made Iran more powerful. We removed their biggest enemy.

After our invasion Iran is stronger.

Plus it looks like Iraq is about to implode.

High Iraq Deaths Cast Doubt On US Stability Talk : NPR

Last month was the most bloody in two years.

Bush apologists will defend his war but history will not be so kind.

I believe that the invasion of Iraq will go down as the biggest foreign policy blunder since the Austria-Hungarian Empire invaded Serbia in 1914.

Plus the war was fought (still is being fought) with borrowed money and the long range costs are up to $3,000,000,000,000 ($3 Trillion)

It ain't Appamattox Courthouse but it ain't Tokoyo Bay either.

 

[30ashopper]

Our invasion of Iraq substantially smashed Iraq's military and on that point we certainly did succeed.

Tactically it was a roaring success but we blew it when we didn't send in sufficient troops to keep the peace.

But the unintended consequence was that by removing Saddam we made Iran more powerful. We removed their biggest enemy.

After our invasion Iran is stronger.

Plus it looks like Iraq is about to implode.

High Iraq Deaths Cast Doubt On US Stability Talk : NPR

Last month was the most bloody in two years.

Bush apologists will defend his war but history will not be so kind.

I believe that the invasion of Iraq will go down as the biggest foreign policy blunder since the Austria-Hungarian Empire invaded Serbia in 1914.

Plus the war was fought (still is being fought) with borrowed money and the long range costs are up to $3,000,000,000,000 ($3 Trillion)

It ain't Appamattox Courthouse but it ain't Tokoyo Bay either.

I feel it will be the later be interpreted exactly opposite of your view. Time will tell. A rich, successful democracy in the heart of the middle east will have very positive, far reaching effects throughout the area. If Iraq does fall apart, it won't be for a lack of opportunity. Personally I'm optimistic.

I've been listening to liberals predict the worst in Iraq for five or six years now. Thus far your predictions have fallen far short of reality. You wanted Vietnam 2.0, but you didn't get it. Then it was civil war you hoped for, but you didn't get that either. Now you want the government to fail. I'm hoping your current less than rosy scenario is equally flawed. I know you want to see things fail there, I get that. But maybe you could show a little compassion for the people who are struggling so hard to build a future there? Ah, never mind, I know, that's too much to ask.

 

[Lake View Too]

Our invasion of Iraq substantially smashed Iraq's military and on that point we certainly did succeed.

Tactically it was a roaring success but we blew it when we didn't send in sufficient troops to keep the peace.

But the unintended consequence was that by removing Saddam we made Iran more powerful. We removed their biggest enemy.

After our invasion Iran is stronger.

Plus it looks like Iraq is about to implode.

High Iraq Deaths Cast Doubt On US Stability Talk : NPR

Last month was the most bloody in two years.

Bush apologists will defend his war but history will not be so kind.

I believe that the invasion of Iraq will go down as the biggest foreign policy blunder since the Austria-Hungarian Empire invaded Serbia in 1914.

Plus the war was fought (still is being fought) with borrowed money and the long range costs are up to $3,000,000,000,000 ($3 Trillion)

It ain't Appamattox Courthouse but it ain't Tokoyo Bay either.

In addtition to all these fine points, we also allowed Al Queida to get a stronghold in Iraq, helped refine the development and deployment of IED's by insurgents, and showed the world how truly inept and corrupt our nation building efforts were. The reconstruction of Iraq has been failure, and a costly one at that. Unless completely destroying countries and then walking away is OK with everyone.