Why do we need high speed rail between Tampa and Orlando?

[30ashopper]

High-speed rail, SunRail: Election results could derail high-speed rail, SunRail - OrlandoSentinel.com

..and between Orlando and Miami? When I was living on California, Las Vegas spent a lot of money trying to get a high speed rail line between Vegas and L.A.. Everyone said it was primarily designed funnel L.A. money over to Vegas casinos, which long term, would be bad for Californians.

Here in Florida it seems some folks are trying to do the same thing for Orlando.

Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer, a key supporter of both trains, said he would be surprised if there is a move to scuttle either one.
"I would assume anybody who wants to create jobs in Florida would recognize the benefits of high-speed rail and SunRail," said Dyer, a Democrat.

Both trains come with the promise of thousands of jobs, ranging from engineers to carpenters to concrete mixers. SunRail proponents say 6,700 construction jobs could be created by the train, with work beginning next year. High-speed rail, meanwhile, is supposed to generate about 23,000 construction-related jobs, starting next year.

Orange County's chief of transportation, Jim Harrison, said those jobs are critical to the Central Florida economy, where unemployment stands at 11.9 percent.

I get the short term jobs argument, but what are the long term benefits? Can anyone voice long term economic reasons for these projects? What about long term costs?

 

[Andy A]

High-speed rail, SunRail: Election results could derail high-speed rail, SunRail - OrlandoSentinel.com

..and between Orlando and Miami? When I was living on California, Las Vegas spent a lot of money trying to get a high speed rail line between Vegas and L.A.. Everyone said it was primarily designed funnel L.A. money over to Vegas casinos, which long term, would be bad for Californians.

Here in Florida it seems some folks are trying to do the same thing for Orlando.



I get the short term jobs argument, but what are the long term benefits? Can anyone voice long term economic reasons for these projects? What about long term costs?

We don't and Orlando and Tampa don't either.

 

[LuciferSam]

We need it to keep some of the older drivers off the road, especially during evacuations.

 

[scooterbug44]

I think rail/mass transit is a long neglected part of our country's infrastructure.

Aside from short term construction jobs, it means fewer cars on the road (from a fuel, pollution, and traffic standpoint), an alternate to airplane flight, and more mobility options for an aging population that can't/shouldn't drive.

 

[Lynnie]

I love high speeed rail and wish we had more lines in America. I am a lone duck among some friends in Atlanta that uses the train and bus. I can assure you, you will encounter interesting characters and a laugh or two, much less no parking issues, tickets (just got one at 18 miles over), DUI's, etc. As far as safety, I've never had an issue in any country or city using their mass transit.

To pay for it, I am all for GO bonds or Revenue bonds.

 

[beachmouse]

Those kinds of construction jobs have long propped up the private construction sector during economic downturns while providing a useful product in the end. There are a lot of Depression era WPA structures and projects still serving the public good to this day.

But I don't like the assorted Florida high speed rail proposals because I think the numbers just don't work out. The places where high speed rail is successful (France, Japan, etc.)tend to have very high density population clusters as terminal/transfer points.

And we just don't have that kind of proper density for success in this country outside of the Northeast/Atlantic corridor. Long distance mass transit in this country relies far more on the airline hub and spoke model for good reason- we've got a buttload of mid-sized metro areas clustered in just such a way that the geography makes it the optimal system.

The price for including those small to mid-sized metros into the high speed rail grid is extremely huge if you're talking additional track, and even significant if you're talking about midpoints along straight line tracks. Adding Lakeland as a stop in a Tampa-Orlando route significantly increases both travel time and energy costs for HSR, and those increased costs get passed on so that you don't add riders in Lakeland without losing a few in Tampa/Orlando.

And when these kinds of projects go forward and cause huge financial discomfort for a lot of someones, it then becomes harder to properly fund mass transit projects that honestly do make sense for an area/ region.

 

[scooterbug44]

I hate the airline "hub and spoke" - because that is never where I want to go and I end up traveling much further. Only in airplane logic is the best way to get from East Texas to the Western Florida Panhandle to go through North Carolina.

Would much rather take a train or fly somewhere, then take a regional train than deal with the zig-zags and frustration of air travel.

Not sure high speed is the best way to go, but I really want more train travel options.

 

[KISH7374]

My inlaws just took the train from Cleveland to Seattle. We dropped them at the station last Thursday at 0300 in the morning. They went coach to Chicago and a sleeper berth to Seattle. They hade a great time. The scenery was beautiful, the food was execptional and the company was interseting. They arrived on Saturday morning in Seattle and can't stop talking about the ride.

 

[Lynnie]

Those kinds of construction jobs have long propped up the private construction sector during economic downturns while providing a useful product in the end. There are a lot of Depression era WPA structures and projects still serving the public good to this day.

But I don't like the assorted Florida high speed rail proposals because I think the numbers just don't work out. The places where high speed rail is successful (France, Japan, etc.)tend to have very high density population clusters as terminal/transfer points.

And we just don't have that kind of proper density for success in this country outside of the Northeast/Atlantic corridor. Long distance mass transit in this country relies far more on the airline hub and spoke model for good reason- we've got a buttload of mid-sized metro areas clustered in just such a way that the geography makes it the optimal system.

The price for including those small to mid-sized metros into the high speed rail grid is extremely huge if you're talking additional track, and even significant if you're talking about midpoints along straight line tracks. Adding Lakeland as a stop in a Tampa-Orlando route significantly increases both travel time and energy costs for HSR, and those increased costs get passed on so that you don't add riders in Lakeland without losing a few in Tampa/Orlando.

And when these kinds of projects go forward and cause huge financial discomfort for a lot of someones, it then becomes harder to properly fund mass transit projects that honestly do make sense for an area/ region.

Starting on the East Coast / NE is a great start, I think.

 

[Will B]

Atlanta plans on wasting $47.6 MILLION dollars of stimulous money to build a railed streetcar route between Centennial Park and the MLK Center / Home.

Apparently, no one who is on the planning end of this fiasco cares to admit or remember the fact that there used to be a fake streetcar (dressed up busses) that ran the same route and a MARTA route that covered the same area. Neither of those survived because nobody rides between those points of interest. The fake streetcar packed up and redeployed somewhere else where it could make money, and MARTA got rid of the route, outright.

This is the kind of stuff that people need to be paying attention to and getting mad about...

Just my two cents...

Carry on...