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Leader of the Banned

Beach Fanatic
Apr 23, 2013
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I have no idea if he classified them or not, I am simply saying he had the right to while he was in office. I don't know if it was a felony for him to take them to his night club, I will concede he shouldn't have taken them at all. It is my understanding that the records department went to his home to go through his stuff and he let them take what they wanted (I do not know this as truth). Trumps lawyers said the records dept are the ones that recommended he secure the closet they were kept in (that is why there was a padlock on an interior door) the lawyer also stated this is confirmable through email (I do not know if this is true). As far as the search warrant they should have done it with more class. All they did was kick up the Trump hornet nest, which doesn't really help anyone. As far as coming off pathetic your opinion is your opinion. I've met Giuliani when I was in college, not my cup of tea, New Yorkers can be tough to like

The light that has shined on Trump has definitely damaged his chances of holding office, along with any candidates running in November who support him.
 

Leader of the Banned

Beach Fanatic
Apr 23, 2013
4,094
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You don't need a constitutional right to get a vasectomy
You did say "I'm not granted a right to a vasectomy (or any medical procedure (more to your point)) by the constitution." Correct me if I'm wrong, but that implies that you believe that the states could outlaw vasectomies if they chose to.
 

Lake View Too

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2008
6,972
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Actually it is within the presidents power (Impoundment Control Act of 74). Are you saying he should be convicted of withholding aide? Should other presidents that have done it also be convicted?
If you had watched the impeachment proceedings you would have been giving some rather extraordinary insights into why the founding fathers of our nation were adamant about not having foreign powers (such as the Ukraine Government) having influence on our domestic elections. Trump tried to use extortion to do just that. That is why he was impeached. I learned quite about the history of the formation of our democracy, and the wisdom of the separation of powers, in those proceedings. You seem to like to dwell in your willful ignorance, but, again, to quote you from earlier, you like to follow the Constitution "as much as possible."
 

Lake View Too

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Nov 16, 2008
6,972
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I have no idea if he classified them or not, I am simply saying he had the right to while he was in office. I don't know if it was a felony for him to take them to his night club, I will concede he shouldn't have taken them at all. It is my understanding that the records department went to his home to go through his stuff and he let them take what they wanted (I do not know this as truth). Trumps lawyers said the records dept are the ones that recommended he secure the closet they were kept in (that is why there was a padlock on an interior door) the lawyer also stated this is confirmable through email (I do not know if this is true). As far as the search warrant they should have done it with more class. All they did was kick up the Trump hornet nest, which doesn't really help anyone. As far as coming off pathetic your opinion is your opinion. I've met Giuliani when I was in college, not my cup of tea, New Yorkers can be tough to like
This entire last paragraph indicates you don't have a full grasp of the facts. The facts are that removing government documents to a private location is a felony. When informed that he should return them, he refused to return all of them. This is obstruction. This is a felony. You need to stop tapdancing around these two facts. Trump's lawyer, acting in his behalf, signed documents to this. Another of his lawyers also signed a document listing the documents that were seized in the search. These are documents that will stand up in court. The DOJ gave him several opportunities to surrender the documents, and, as William Barr stated, he jerked them around. Don't go crying about how heavy handed this way, because, it was simply handled by the book.
 

Leader of the Banned

Beach Fanatic
Apr 23, 2013
4,094
6,092
If you had watched the impeachment proceedings you would have been giving some rather extraordinary insights into why the founding fathers of our nation were adamant about not having foreign powers (such as the Ukraine Government) having influence on our domestic elections. Trump tried to use extortion to do just that. That is why he was impeached. I learned quite about the history of the formation of our democracy, and the wisdom of the separation of powers, in those proceedings. You seem to like to dwell in your willful ignorance, but, again, to quote you from earlier, you like to follow the Constitution "as much as possible."
He'll either be very precise and legalistic or vague, loose, and sloppy, whichever he thinks supports his own emotion-driven position at the moment.
 

Bob Wells

Beach Fanatic
Jul 25, 2008
3,380
2,857
Bob if you are asking seriously I will always answer to the best of my ability.
A 'fair' tax system would be if everyone paid the same percentage of their income (lets say 10% or whatever). I'm also not against a tiered system but no matter what it will bend in the favor of whomever is writing / voting on the policy, this is just human nature. As far as fiscal responsibility we have to (from both sides) cut out all the pork they try to tie to bills we need. We also need to cut out all of the extras that we throw out that don't really help us. We are beyond broke so we need to tighten up our belts till we dig out.
I am fairly ridged as far as my desire to follow the constitution. Thats why I do not have a problem with the SCOTUS correcting the past wrong on abortion. On a personal level I do not care if anyone gets an abortion or not
Please define pork, both domestically and internationally? Would the tax affect investment income as well as corporations doing business both inside and outside the US as well as foreign corporations doing business here? When you say flat tax, you are saying no deductions, correct? It appears you answered a ton of questions about my questions. The 10th Amendment to the Constitution was brought up. So your perspective to the abortion issue is it is a States right? Back in the 80s when President Reagan was in office he was withholding Federal Highway Funding from Florida because we weren't adequately enforcing the 55 mile an hour speed limit, do you believe that was a 10th amendment issue? There were those back in the days prior to the Civil War who believed slavery was a States rights issue, if history is to be believed. There are some who believe that today, although they are happy that slavery has ended, your thoughts? Please, this ain't a trap on my end but am curious about the boundaries.
 
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Lou Deman

Beach Fanatic
Jan 25, 2017
1,688
304
52
South Walton
The light that has shined on Trump has definitely damaged his chances of holding office, along with any candidates running in November who support him.
My opinion on your comment is this, Trumps endorsement seems to add value to GOP candidates but as someone on the right if Trump runs for president he will lose to a sack of potatoes because he is political cancer. I do not like how the left plays the game but they are being extremely smart right now by keeping Trump at the forefront of the media they are trying to associate everything on the right with Trump. From 20,000 feet I think both of our sides are missing the boat on who they are running for president in 2024. Our side cannot run Trump and your side should really look into who you are backing because I don't think Biden or Kamala are qualified. Its hard to believe any of these people are our best options
 

Lou Deman

Beach Fanatic
Jan 25, 2017
1,688
304
52
South Walton
You did say "I'm not granted a right to a vasectomy (or any medical procedure (more to your point)) by the constitution." Correct me if I'm wrong, but that implies that you believe that the states could outlaw vasectomies if they chose to.
LOTB
I see your point but without a moral question on right or wrong why would they? I am going to have to play this one through in my head. To follow the 10th anything not in the constitution is deferred to the states so maybe. Food for thought
 

Lou Deman

Beach Fanatic
Jan 25, 2017
1,688
304
52
South Walton
If you had watched the impeachment proceedings you would have been giving some rather extraordinary insights into why the founding fathers of our nation were adamant about not having foreign powers (such as the Ukraine Government) having influence on our domestic elections. Trump tried to use extortion to do just that. That is why he was impeached. I learned quite about the history of the formation of our democracy, and the wisdom of the separation of powers, in those proceedings. You seem to like to dwell in your willful ignorance, but, again, to quote you from earlier, you like to follow the Constitution "as much as possible."
LVT
Please see the attached link to the full transcript of the call between Trump and Zelensky. Please let me know on what page (or just copy and paste) the quid pro quo happens that Trump got impeached over. Let me know where the extortion, or attempted extortion, happens. It should be very easy for you to point out my willful ignorance. Thanks in advance

 

Lou Deman

Beach Fanatic
Jan 25, 2017
1,688
304
52
South Walton
This entire last paragraph indicates you don't have a full grasp of the facts. The facts are that removing government documents to a private location is a felony. When informed that he should return them, he refused to return all of them. This is obstruction. This is a felony. You need to stop tapdancing around these two facts. Trump's lawyer, acting in his behalf, signed documents to this. Another of his lawyers also signed a document listing the documents that were seized in the search. These are documents that will stand up in court. The DOJ gave him several opportunities to surrender the documents, and, as William Barr stated, he jerked them around. Don't go crying about how heavy handed this way, because, it was simply handled by the book.
LVT
I can assure you that I have a full and complete gasp of the law on this matter. President can declassify info while in office and they have every right to take home any and all declassified info as it was their work. Now as someone here noted (I can't remember who) that info can be reclassified and therefore should not be in the hands of citizens (the ex president in this case). I have already stated my personal opinion that I think it was foolish of Trump to be in possession of these items. Trump will not be prosecuted for this, the raid was merely a political dog and pony show. I don't really care either way about how the DOJ conducted themselves but to say this was done by the book is laughable.

Growing up in the Northeast it is amazing how small of a community it actually is, you grow up with friends that eventually go on to work for the White House legal counsel and sometimes you talk to them about issues like these. Its cool to see hear their take on how this stuff plays out
 
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