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formosa64

Beach Lover
Apr 18, 2017
62
88
Seacrest Beach
This is the Senate bill language on customary use:
Section 10. Section 704.09, Florida Statutes, is created to read: 704.09 Judicial determination; customary use.—A common law claim of customary use for the public use of private property must apply to a particular parcel and must be determined by the court.

The House bill 631 passed the House 92 to 14 and has been received by the FL Senate. The Senate bill 804 status: Referred to Judiciary; Community Affairs; Rules.
Favorable in Judiciary: 7 to 3
Favorable in Community Affairs: 5 to 1
Now in Rules ...
 

FactorFiction

Beach Fanatic
Feb 18, 2016
494
409
FEARMONGERING AT ITS BEST OR WORST DEPENDING ON YOUR PERSPECTIVE. CUSTOMARY USE IS IN THE FOREFRONT AGAIN. DON'T LET IT TEAR THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTY APART! CALL OR WRITE YOUR REPRESENTATIVES IN CONGRESS IF YOU WANT, BUT REMEMBER WE ARE ALL NEIGHBORS.

FACT: Walton County allowed sales of the beach along with buildable parcels. There are DEEDS. Hindsight being 20/20, maybe they wouldn't do it again, but it happened. Is it still happening? Good question. I don't know. Please quit saying that people who have deeds that show otherwise, do not own the beach. They do. Don't like it? That's ok, but doesn't change the legal ownership.
FACT: If Customary Use is revoked, it isn't the end of the world. People can still access and use the beach. There are regional accesses, neighborhood accesses, and miles of public beach at our parks. Stop saying that no one will be able to access or enjoy the beach if customary use is rescinded. That simply isn't true.
FACT: FL statute guarantees the public the right to traverse the beach along the foreshore/wet sand area. That isn't new and it hasn't changed with customary use.
FACT: We didn't have a Customary Use Ordinance governing use of the dry sand beaches in Walton County until roughly a year and a half ago. Sure there was some animosity on BOTH SIDES, but many beachfront owners have NO PROBLEM with respectful people traversing, fishing, sitting on the beach, sunbathing, swimming, building sandcastles....(sound familiar? These items are in the customary use ordinance). Ostracizing, belittling, demeaning, and calling beachfront owners names is NOT helpful and further divides our County's citizens. Try getting to know some of them. You might be surprised to find that they are very much like you.

Something else to consider: Try leaving your tents and excessive baggage/toys at home. My mom had a rule. Each person carried their own stuff. If it was too much to carry in and out by myself in one trip in and one trip out, I didn't need it. Worked like a charm! Spread out, especially if you are near neighborhood accesses. Everybody doesn't need to be on one or two lots on either side of an access. Come to enjoy the beach and the water. When you leave, take all your stuff with you. Don't bring your pets during the daytime prohibited beach hours. Don't use tobacco of any kind on the beach. Clean up EVERYTHING in your area before you leave. Yes, that means litter, but it also means to fill in holes, and knock down creations that present trip hazards and interfere with our turtles during turtle season. IF you bring you dog to the beach during allowed hours, you need a permit from Walton County and you are required to keep your dog on leash. Pick up your dog's waste. Walk the dog along the foreshore (not on the dry sand and not in the dues) so that any remnants of urine or waste have a prayer of being washed away/rinsed at high tide. Stay out of the dunes. Kids love sand and they love little hills, but our dunes are protected and invaluable to both wildlife and storm protection. If you want to play football or volleyball or throw frisbees, etc., find a wide open area away from people and the dunes. It isn't relaxing to others when they have to be constantly mindful of getting hit in the head.

Below are some excerpts posted on social media. The names are left off. Not trying to throw anyone under the bus, but these types of posts are incendiary at best and, in a number of cases, inaccurate as well. Do not judge beachfront owners (or tourists/visitors or inland residents) on the words or the actions of a few. Oh, and quit believing everything you read on social media. Try a new tactic. Ask questions instead of making accusations or assumptions. If you sincerely want an answer, maybe try a private message first. Many people will not participate in controversial discussions because of the personal attacks that routinely occur in social media.

Social media example posts follow:
---------------------------------
"This is the definition of selfishness. It smells to high heaven. It is Despicable. Call everyone you know this morning and tell them to call these numbers this morning And vote NO on HB 1173. Tell them that you support Customary use and reject any bill that would restrict it. BEACHFRONT HOMEOWNERS: “We will have our beaches back."
"Excuse me, but they were never yours to begin with. The beaches of South Walton County are for everyone. Let’s keep it that way please call these numbers."
---------------------------------
"Where is 360 Blue and all the property management companies? Do they as well as the county realize that the rental properties will deminish as people will NOT be able to go to the beach unless they are renting Gulf Front, or in specific areas of Rosemary and Seaside. The rest of the tourists will rent in neighboring counties. This impacts ALL businesses, the county bed tax revenue, the rental properties and the home owners who rent their properties. This is more than just locals going to the beach. I just spoke with my friend from Brevard County (largest water facing county in FL). She found it hard to believe that you can't go to the beach and enjoy it. So true. We need to go BACK to the beginning when the DOD owned the beach front property and CORRECT the deed's just as they were corrected in other counties in FL and around the US."
----------------------------------
END of example posts.

So, to conclude, customary use does not have to tear Walton County apart unless we let it. Give people the benefit of the doubt. Try putting yourself in others' shoes, whether you are an inland resident, a tourist/visitor, or a beachfront owner. Remember that residents, tourists/visitors, and beachfront owners are all concerned about losing something. Instead of attacking each other, let's work together to bring harmony to the beach. Sorry this is so long. Just couldn't keep reading all the negativity and say nothing.
 

ShallowsNole

Beach Fanatic
Jun 22, 2005
4,292
849
Pt Washington
What specifically are you talking about? Beach hasn't been private since 1824? What in the world does this even mean? If you are talking about rights of fishing and navigation that has little to do with what's being discussed here with customary use doctrine.

There have clearly been private beaches in Walton county and many other places in Florida up to this current day. What does what county the beach property was in have ANYTHING to do with a beach being private or not? It's all about the deed.

MHWL is a LEGAL description of a boundary. MHWL is a vertical datum of the coastal boundary. Just like a river boundary. There is no *reason* to use that language in a deed other than to describe the boundary for describing ownership. There is no other boundary that is acceptable as it would cross over the coastal boundary.

The seabed is incapable of private ownership (English Law - Lord Hale) established and first reported case in 1662 - Bulstrode vs. Hall . Florida follows the English rule, as does Alabama and others. The NOS started charting coastal boundaries almost 100 years ago. It has nothing to do with any "rational" of filling dirt as you suggest.

Apparently you were not related to, family friends of, or grew up around many of the original developers of this area...and the fill dirt issue happened to my aunt and uncle.
 

ShallowsNole

Beach Fanatic
Jun 22, 2005
4,292
849
Pt Washington
And yes...nobody used to care if you sat (or drove across, or rode horses, or fished) on "their" beach, or even used their walkovers to get to the beach. Kinder, gentler times when everyone pretty much knew everyone else. And then we were "discovered." The beach driving (except at Grayton) and the horses came to an end, and those are not necessarily bad things. However, sitting and fishing should not be activities that cause you to get run off from the shoreline. *sigh*
 

formosa64

Beach Lover
Apr 18, 2017
62
88
Seacrest Beach
Apparently you were not related to, family friends of, or grew up around many of the original developers of this area...and the fill dirt issue happened to my aunt and uncle.

And my point was just because anecdotally there was an issue with fill dirt does not in anyway become "the reason" as you put it that MHWL was put in deeds. Walton county is a special place, but not so special that general rules of property ownership, due process, and coastal deeds do not apply.
 

formosa64

Beach Lover
Apr 18, 2017
62
88
Seacrest Beach
And yes...nobody used to care if you sat (or drove across, or rode horses, or fished) on "their" beach, or even used their walkovers to get to the beach. Kinder, gentler times when everyone pretty much knew everyone else. And then we were "discovered." The beach driving (except at Grayton) and the horses came to an end, and those are not necessarily bad things. However, sitting and fishing should not be activities that cause you to get run off from the shoreline. *sigh*

That's simply not true. I have photos of private beach signs that are 30-40 years old. There are deeds and restrictions from developers that private beaches are dedicated to the exclusive use of the residents and owners of the property. Seaside has had private beaches since 1981... others back into the 1970's.

Many walkovers have "private" and "no trespassing" signs on them to this very day. Customary use does not change private walkovers.

You are confusing informal use by a few locals, with hordes of tourists overtaking a private beach. Walton county's customary use ordinance is in place for the main purpose to facilitate the hordes of tourists and new development by overturning private property for public use. Follow the money.
 

FactorFiction

Beach Fanatic
Feb 18, 2016
494
409
AND THE BEAT GOES ON! Yet another attack on beachfront owners (see below in BOLD). Don't people understand that these constant attacks only make things worse rather than better? Pretend that you live on the Bay, on a lake, a river, next to a nature trail, next to a park, have a wooded area open to hunting or something else that happens to be appealing to the public. One day, your local government passes a customary use ordinance that says the public has rights to set up on your property and you are prohibited from asking them to move no matter the circumstances (barring illegal activity) with no due process to determine whether there has actually been long standing use of your property supported by actual facts and evidence. You might just have a problem with that. If you don't, then in all likelihood you have no problem with not having any priority of use over property you bought and pay taxes on, you/your family/your guests either don't use you property and don't care who does, and/or people don't really hang out on your property.

Remember that we have roughly 8 miles (out of 26) of beach open to the general public even though there is a considerable amount of deeded beach to private entities. Of those deeded beach areas, quite a few of them cater to tourists in a resort capacity. Some influential people in this County have done everything they know how to create a divide among those of us who want to use the beaches and those who have deeds to the beach. Instead of encouraging rules and guidelines for everyone sharing and getting along on the beach, they have pitted almost the entire population of Walton County and tourists who come here against beachfront owners, many of whom actually do have deeds to the dry sand adjoining their buildable property, and would willingly share with respectful beachgoers. They also continue to make quiet title actions sound like some nefarious action instead of recognizing that a quiet title is based on facts, evidence, and the law, not some frivolous attempt to give away public property as has been implied on a number of occasions.

There is plenty of blame (not that blame is helpful) to go around for changing South Walton from "the character of the small town." It certainly is not all about the beach, although it is the major draw. Look at over development, inadequate infrastructure such as storm drainage, insufficient roadways and parking, and over-marketing the area being some of the major issues. To say that beachfront owners "are willing to threaten the success and viability of our entire county's to have an relatively unused piece of sand in front of their home is the ultimate example selfishness" is to ignore significant facts. Walton County's decision makers over many years have actually created a great deal of the situation we find ourselves in today. We are now overburdened by the number of residents and visitors without making sure that we could accommodate them FIRST.

How about we START fixing the situation by being better neighbors and friends, by getting involved in CONSTRUCTIVE dialogue, attending meetings (or at least watching them) so that you know what is going on, ask questions when you don't what is going on, VOTE, VOTE, VOTE when elections come around, but make sure that you have researched the candidates so that you some idea what they stand for and the kind of governance you are likely to experience. The blame game just creates animosity and solves nothing.

"Although it has now passed out of the Rules Committee and will pass on to the floor for a full vote, (date & time TBD), the character of the small town, with it's breathtaking free and open beaches, warm and welcoming community has forever changed. Knowing that an entitled group of gulf front property owners who have orchestrated this action (with the help of some legislators unrelated to our community), are willing to threaten the success and viability of our entire county's to have an relatively unused piece of sand in front of their home is the ultimate example selfishness. All those sneaky quiet title actions that have occurred like in Beach Highlands and Seagrove, would now have new meaning. I can hear the bottles of Cristal popping right now. I hope you guys are proud of yourselves."
 

formosa64

Beach Lover
Apr 18, 2017
62
88
Seacrest Beach
"Although it has now passed out of the Rules Committee and will pass on to the floor for a full vote, (date & time TBD), the character of the small town, with it's breathtaking free and open beaches, warm and welcoming community has forever changed. Knowing that an entitled group of gulf front property owners who have orchestrated this action (with the help of some legislators unrelated to our community), are willing to threaten the success and viability of our entire county's to have an relatively unused piece of sand in front of their home is the ultimate example selfishness. All those sneaky quiet title actions that have occurred like in Beach Highlands and Seagrove, would now have new meaning. I can hear the bottles of Cristal popping right now. I hope you guys are proud of yourselves."

A private property owner does not have any moral or ethical obligation to let the public use their property (except in a life threatening emergency). That's been the case since the days of the King - and attempting to guilt property owners about getting back their own rights that were taken away in 2016 - is laughable.

What else is laughable is that of the public beaches, 50% of that space is given away to the beach vendors by the county - so the argument that the public does not have free beaches and out of space isn't based in any reality.

This was a land grab by the county, plain and simple. Thank goodness the State figured out this simply cannot stand and they won't allow anyone else - including Walton county to try this kind of crap again. Using a high paid out of town lawyer to cherry pick the findings of the court and a high school powerpoint presentation as evidence of ancient use (did no research on uninterrupted criteria) - pathetic.
 
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ShallowsNole

Beach Fanatic
Jun 22, 2005
4,292
849
Pt Washington
That's simply not true. I have photos of private beach signs that are 30-40 years old. There are deeds and restrictions from developers that private beaches are dedicated to the exclusive use of the residents and owners of the property. Seaside has had private beaches since 1981... others back into the 1970's..

40 years ago I was a teenager doing all those things that you can't do on the beach any longer. Never saw a private beach sign except for Grayton Beach State Park, although we knew Four Mile Village was private due to the Coffeen Nature Preserve. This was before Deer Lake and Topsail Hill became state parks. Sandestin was the first large development that touted private beaches; we snuck in there anyway. Seaside didn't exist.

As far as deeds to the MHWL, my uncle's family - the one who had the fill dirt issue - developed most of Grayton Beach. I also worked for Cube McGee, who platted and sold most of what is today "downtown" Seagrove Beach. My parents were friends with Eric Allen, developer of Dune-Allen. That is where my information comes from. And all these people would be rolling in their graves if they knew how literally today's gulf-front owners were interpreting ownership to the MHWL. I agree that respect should be given to those who live in gulf-front homes; after all, there are things you and I wouldn't want done in our front yards. But, the beach is for all to enjoy.
 
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