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Kaydence

Beach Fanatic
Jan 19, 2017
1,553
710
Florida
could potentially void Walton County's customary land use ordinance

This past spring, Walton County Commissioners passed a law defining the rights of South Walton beach visitors and although the ruling has been done, the battle is not over.

"Right now, I don't really know what the bill says so it could be something that could be a detriment to Walton County and our customary use," District 2 Walton County Commissioner Cecilia Jones said. "If we lose our right for the public to be on the beach that would affect us economically, very much so. We want to just be aware and be proactive in trying to lobby for the right legislation to come forth."

Wednesday, Walton County Commissioners say they will make their way over to the state capital as the topic comes up for debate at the 2018 legislative session.

"I'm all about local control," Jones added.

If the proposed bill passes, it could void Walton county's customary land use ordinance.

www.wjhg.com/content/news/Proposed-bill-could-potentially-void-Walton-Countys-customary-land-use-ordinance-468524403.html
 

formosa64

Beach Lover
Apr 18, 2017
62
88
Seacrest Beach
could potentially void Walton County's customary land use ordinance

This past spring, Walton County Commissioners passed a law defining the rights of South Walton beach visitors and although the ruling has been done, the battle is not over.

"Right now, I don't really know what the bill says so it could be something that could be a detriment to Walton County and our customary use," District 2 Walton County Commissioner Cecilia Jones said. "If we lose our right for the public to be on the beach that would affect us economically, very much so. We want to just be aware and be proactive in trying to lobby for the right legislation to come forth."

Wednesday, Walton County Commissioners say they will make their way over to the state capital as the topic comes up for debate at the 2018 legislative session.

"I'm all about local control," Jones added.

If the proposed bill passes, it could void Walton county's customary land use ordinance.

www.wjhg.com/content/news/Proposed-bill-could-potentially-void-Walton-Countys-customary-land-use-ordinance-468524403.html

Obviously the state is concerned at what's occurred in Walton County. The infamous FL SC case that is used for customary use was in Volusia county, but as most reading know - the case said it had to be applied on a per property basis. Obviously Walton county ignored that part of the ruling (and other issues) and so this bill is going to take away the power of local municipalities to misuse customary use doctrine.

Is there a way to find out when the bill will be debated - and get private beachfront property owners to go to the state capital to counter the Commissioners trip over there? They could present a one-sided case.
 

Kaydence

Beach Fanatic
Jan 19, 2017
1,553
710
Florida
Is there a way to find out when the bill will be debated - and get private beachfront property owners to go to the state capital to counter the Commissioners trip over there? They could present a one-sided case.

Danielle Ellis (WJHG) did the story..she is on Facebook or you could try calling the station. She also attends the BCC meetings in Walton County and you could catch up with her at a meeting. You might also want to try the public information officer for the county (good luck there).

I also looked for a date for this bill to be heard or even the bill number which you could actually look up online...surprised (sorta) the reporter didn't mention it.

I often feel the lack of information being given to the public is by design.
 

FloridaBeachBum

Beach Fanatic
Feb 9, 2017
463
112
Santa Rosa Beach
The bill may invalidate Walton’s customary use ordinance but it does not prevent Walton from claiming public customary use of private property in a court of law with due process and rebuttal evidence to Walton’s claim in front of a judge trained in the law.

The bill is NOT about IF customary use is determined but HOW custom is determined. Determined by which branch of government? By a biased, political, "unqualified" local legislative officials with an agenda or an apolitical (relatively) judiciary with the rule of law and due-process and a judge who is trained in the law?
Commissioners are "unqualified" because it is clear they don’t understand customary use law; and what do you expect their $425/hr attorney to advise commissioners, that he should not litigate a million dollar case?

Commissioner Jones publicly states she doesn’t know what the bill says!? So how does she know if she is against the bill and to send Tony Anderson to speak against it? Walton pays their land use attorney, David Theriaque, $425 hour to help her understand. Both Theriaque and Tony Anderson lobbied at the Senate Judiciary committee in Tallahassee 1/10/2018 against the bill. The committee approved the bill to go forward in the Senate by a vote of 7 to 3.

It was very clear Commissioner Tony Anderson has NO clue what the common law of customary use is or what this bill is about. But he is not up for election this year either.

Now, a county can just hold a workshop or two, hire an attorney and “experts” to hear what they want to hear, NO due process, and pass a customary use ordinance. The burden unreasonably shifts to the property owner to prove in court the Commissioners didn’t know what they were doing and violated the owner’s Constitutional rights - again. Instead of the Commissioners having the burden to prove the historical elements of custom, "[c]ustomary public rights require a showing that the use of land is (1) ancient, (2) reasonable and peaceful, (3) exercised without interruption, (4) of certain boundaries, (5) obligatory or compulsory, (6) not inconsistent with other customs or law, and (7) by a multitudinous number of persons." are superior to private property rights. Customary use is not a popularity vote it is a rule of law that a court decides; not elected commissioners.

I always hear customary use supporters, Commissioners, and candidates say that the County’s economy is dependent on access to private beachfront property. So is my income of my beachfront property that I pay taxes on. Local economics and taking value from the private property owner's land to give the right of private enjoyment to anyone who happens on their property is not an element of customary use. I depend on the income of my private beachfront property that I pay taxes on too. I have to rent my beachfront to pay the 5 figure Walton property taxe$. Customary use adversely burdens private property owners that rent their beachfront property to guests who wish to vacation on private beachfront away from public beaches and are willing to pay a premium for it. Because Walton commissioners have failed to manage growth in south Walton and supply exceeds demand! To say property owners should have known that the legal doctrine of custom applied when owners paid a premium for private beachfront for their enjoyment, like the property owner north of 30A or Scenic Hwy, is disingenuous at best.
 

einnadica

Beach Lover
Nov 25, 2017
85
54
40
NW Florida
Local economics and taking value from the private property owner's land to give the right of private enjoyment to anyone who happens on their property is not an element of customary use.

Following this topic closely. I appreciate the clarity of thought in your statement. I happen to completely agree with you.
 
Jul 10, 2017
98
14
DeFuniak Springs
The bill may invalidate Walton’s customary use ordinance but it does not prevent Walton from claiming public customary use of private property in a court of law with due process and rebuttal evidence to Walton’s claim in front of a judge trained in the law.

The bill is NOT about IF customary use is determined but HOW custom is determined. Determined by which branch of government? By a biased, political, "unqualified" local legislative officials with an agenda or an apolitical (relatively) judiciary with the rule of law and due-process and a judge who is trained in the law?
Commissioners are "unqualified" because it is clear they don’t understand customary use law; and what do you expect their $425/hr attorney to advise commissioners, that he should not litigate a million dollar case?

Commissioner Jones publicly states she doesn’t know what the bill says!? So how does she know if she is against the bill and to send Tony Anderson to speak against it? Walton pays their land use attorney, David Theriaque, $425 hour to help her understand. Both Theriaque and Tony Anderson lobbied at the Senate Judiciary committee in Tallahassee 1/10/2018 against the bill. The committee approved the bill to go forward in the Senate by a vote of 7 to 3.

It was very clear Commissioner Tony Anderson has NO clue what the common law of customary use is or what this bill is about. But he is not up for election this year either.

Now, a county can just hold a workshop or two, hire an attorney and “experts” to hear what they want to hear, NO due process, and pass a customary use ordinance. The burden unreasonably shifts to the property owner to prove in court the Commissioners didn’t know what they were doing and violated the owner’s Constitutional rights - again. Instead of the Commissioners having the burden to prove the historical elements of custom, "[c]ustomary public rights require a showing that the use of land is (1) ancient, (2) reasonable and peaceful, (3) exercised without interruption, (4) of certain boundaries, (5) obligatory or compulsory, (6) not inconsistent with other customs or law, and (7) by a multitudinous number of persons." are superior to private property rights. Customary use is not a popularity vote it is a rule of law that a court decides; not elected commissioners.

I always hear customary use supporters, Commissioners, and candidates say that the County’s economy is dependent on access to private beachfront property. So is my income of my beachfront property that I pay taxes on. Local economics and taking value from the private property owner's land to give the right of private enjoyment to anyone who happens on their property is not an element of customary use. I depend on the income of my private beachfront property that I pay taxes on too. I have to rent my beachfront to pay the 5 figure Walton property taxe$. Customary use adversely burdens private property owners that rent their beachfront property to guests who wish to vacation on private beachfront away from public beaches and are willing to pay a premium for it. Because Walton commissioners have failed to manage growth in south Walton and supply exceeds demand! To say property owners should have known that the legal doctrine of custom applied when owners paid a premium for private beachfront for their enjoyment, like the property owner north of 30A or Scenic Hwy, is disingenuous at best.



So in your opinion your personal economy out weights Walton County's economy....got it.

Granted Walton County was way behind the ball on buying gulf front property for public use but in their defense the county didn't have money until tourism boomed and by then the real estate market was so high that they couldn't afford it.

Im very curious to know how long you have owned your gulf front property. My guess is less than 3-5 years.
 

Kaydence

Beach Fanatic
Jan 19, 2017
1,553
710
Florida
If the county had not thrown away millions of dollars on frivolous lawsuits they could not win, they would have had all kinds of money.

The poor pitiful county is a victim of their own stupidity!
 

lazin&drinkin

Beach Lover
Apr 13, 2010
175
153
So in your opinion your personal economy out weights Walton County's economy....got it.

Granted Walton County was way behind the ball on buying gulf front property for public use but in their defense the county didn't have money until tourism boomed and by then the real estate market was so high that they couldn't afford it.

Im very curious to know how long you have owned your gulf front property. My guess is less than 3-5 years.

Judging from your comments and musings above, I'm not at all curious about how long you've had your rectal carcinoma under your direct vision.
 

FloridaBeachBum

Beach Fanatic
Feb 9, 2017
463
112
Santa Rosa Beach
So in your opinion your personal economy out weights Walton County's economy....got it.

Granted Walton County was way behind the ball on buying gulf front property for public use but in their defense the county didn't have money until tourism boomed and by then the real estate market was so high that they couldn't afford it.

Im very curious to know how long you have owned your gulf front property. My guess is less than 3-5 years.
“So in your opinion your personal economy out weights Walton County's economy....got it.” Wow, did you really say that? Yes, my private property rights of personal enjoyment and financial investment protected by the rule of law under the Constitution absolutely outweighs your and any Walton BCC economic claim to my personal property that I pay Walton BCC five figures in taxes annually on.

Your “economy” or financial security do NOT outweigh Walton’s economic interests?

I recently heard Tony Anderson state; "... we only have tourism..." because the BCC over the decades have failed to encourage economic growth in the north and have failed to mange growth in the south. Burdening the private property owner and taking value from property owners (many who have to rent to pay property taxes) is not a solution and against the Constitution. Walton has been a county since 1824 and BCC are only now claiming customary use of private property that has been private since 1824?

That Walton BCC could not “afford” to pay fair value for beachfront; has NOTHING to do with claiming public customary use on private property. I guess taxpayers can now afford BCC litigation. Walton Commissioner Chair Sara Comander, Oct 25, 2016 stated on customary use ordinance “...if it took spending 40 MILLION to 50 MILLION in tax payer’s money - if we [commissioners] have to, then we have to!” Wonder how much beachfront or more importantly needed infrastructure improvements Walton could get for that? Board of County Commissioners on 2016-10-25 9:00 AM - Regular Meeting - Oct 25th, 2016

You are not a very good guesser. Our family has been here since the 70s, bought our private beachfront with title to the MHWL in the 80s. Many owners have, just like the Goodwins did, who have the courage to standup to the BCC in court.

I’ve heard Tony Anderson say; This [customary use] became an issue recently ...
False. Customary use as been litigated and an issue in Walton long before now. Ask Walton’s $425/hr land use attorney, Mr. Theriaque, about Meyer v. Apollo and Destin's 2002 veiled attempt to declare customary use. 2003 Walton Beach ordinance, customary use was considered and rejected by commissioners. 2007 Walton commissioners directed County Attorney to draft a customary use ordinance and failed to enact it.

Only now that public demand for the beach has exceeded supply, maybe Walton BCC/TDC should stop marketing, and public beach goers don't respect private (or public) beaches, Walton code enforcement don't enforce, ... beach owners are not going to take the public beach goer abuse of their private property anymore and protect their Constitutional property rights and investments from BCC failure to lead.
 
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