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What makes a terrorist?

6thGen avatar
Beach Fanatic
11,445 views
Not poverty. Not our support of Israel. Rather, suppression of civil liberties and political rights. Chickpea, here are your root causes, even though I know you won't read the book when it comes out.

Princeton Economist Says
Lack of Civil Liberties, Not
Poverty, Breeds Terrorism
July 5, 2007; Page A2
When Princeton economist Alan Krueger saw reports that seven of eight people arrested in the unsuccessful car bombings in Britain were doctors, he wasn't shocked. He wasn't even surprised.

"Each time we have one of these attacks and the backgrounds of the attackers are revealed, this should put to rest the myth that terrorists are attacking us because they are desperately poor," he says. "But this misconception doesn't die."

Less than a year after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, President Bush said, "We fight against poverty because hope is an answer to terror." A couple of months later, his wife, Laura, said, "Educated children are much more likely to embrace the values that defeat terror." Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn has argued, "The war on terrorism will not be won until we have come to grips with the problem of poverty, and thus the sources of discontent."

The analysis is plausible. It's appealing because it bolsters the case for the worthy goals of fighting poverty and ignorance. But systematic study -- to the extent possible -- suggests it's wrong.

"As a group, terrorists are better educated and from wealthier families than the typical person in the same age group in the societies from which they originate," Mr. Krueger said at the London School of Economics last year in a lecture soon to be published as a book, "What Makes a Terrorist?"

"There is no evidence of a general tendency for impoverished or uneducated people to be more likely to support terrorism or join terrorist organizations than their higher-income, better-educated countrymen," he said. The Sept. 11 attackers were relatively well-off men from a rich country, Saudi Arabia.

Mr. Krueger, 46 years old, is one of those academics whose research extends from the standard fare -- How much more do workers with education earn? What happens to employment when the minimum wage rises? -- to, well, cool stuff. Did Firestone factories produce shoddy tires during a period of labor unrest? (Yes) Are rich people really enjoying life more than the rest of us? (No) Are concert-ticket prices higher for female musicians than males? (Yes)

He began poking around this sordid subject a decade ago when he and a colleague found little connection between economic circumstances and the incidence of violent hate crimes in Germany. Among the statistical pieces of the puzzle a small band of academics have assembled since are these:

? Backgrounds of 148 Palestinian suicide bombers show they were less likely to come from families living in poverty and were more likely to have finished high school than the general population. Biographies of 129 Hezbollah shahids (martyrs) reveal they, too, are less likely to be from poor families than the Lebanese population from which they come. The same goes for available data about an Israeli terrorist organization, Gush Emunim, active in the 1980s.

? Terrorism doesn't increase in the Middle East when economic conditions worsen; indeed, there seems no link. One study finds the number of terrorist incidents is actually higher in countries that spend more on social-welfare programs. Slicing and dicing data finds no discernible pattern that countries that are poorer or more illiterate produce more terrorists. Examining 781 terrorist events classified by the U.S. State Department as "significant" reveals terrorists tend to come from countries distinguished by political oppression, not poverty or inequality.

? Public-opinion polls from Jordan, Morocco, Pakistan and Turkey find people with more education are more likely to say suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq are justified. Polls of Palestinians find no clear difference in support for terrorism as a means to achieve political ends between the most and least educated.


Data on which all this relies are hardly perfect: Terrorists don't fill out elaborate questionnaires. Better-off, better-educated individuals could be motivated if not by their own circumstances, then by the conditions of their impoverished countrymen. Interviews of terrorists in Pakistan by Harvard terrorism scholar Jessica Stern reveal recruiters there found the poorest neighborhoods to be the most fertile ground, particularly among those who feel Muslims are humiliated by the West. She says Mr. Krueger and like-minded scholars don't yet have enough evidence to prove anything. "We are only just beginning to do really serious large studies in terrorism," she says.

But the conventional wisdom that poverty breeds terrorism is backed by surprisingly little hard evidence. "The evidence is nearly unanimous in rejecting either material deprivation or inadequate education as an important cause of support for terrorism or of participation in terrorist activities," Mr. Krueger asserts. The 9/11 Commission stated flatly: Terrorism is not caused by poverty.

So what is the cause? Suppression of civil liberties and political rights, Mr. Krueger hypothesizes. "When nonviolent means of protest are curtailed," he says, "malcontents appear to be more likely to turn to terrorist tactics."

Which -- ironically, given that Mr. Krueger is no fan of the president's actual policies at home or abroad -- is close to Mr. Bush's rhetoric: "Liberty has got the capacity to change enemies into allies."

Write to David Wessel at capital@wsj.com, or chat with him about this column in his online forum.

Replies

297
Uncle Timmy avatar
Beach Fanatic
#102
No, you've disproved that the rest of the years didn't show as strong of a correlation as 2007. You also faulted there since you didn't look at the terrorists' country of origin. And again, there was a 95% correlation in 2007, so I'm not conceding a damn thing, but I never said that it was a 95% correlation in other years, I said that other years were consistent, meaning they consistently show a correlation, not necessarily as strong.

The fact that you make an incredible jump by "proving" that the correlation wasn't as strong in other years to your premise that it doesn't at all correlate, and has nothing to do with it shows how intellectually bankrupt you are and how incredibly weak your argument is.

Again your argument is completely self defeating.

Your assertion:

?Not poverty. Not our support of Israel. Rather, suppression of civil liberties and political rights. Chickpea, here are your root causes?,-6thGen

And you prove this how? By showing (you?ve abandoned the 95%) a correlation between a suppression of civil and political rights and terrorism.

But, facts can?t exist in isolation. So if we can show a (no longer 95%) correlation between __________________ (fill in the blank here) and terrorism then, by your logic we have found a root cause of terrorism.

Let?s look at 2007 ?your favorite year for proving your point.

62 of 70 incidents involved people from nations who are opposed to US support of Israel. That?s 88%.

So we must, by your logic, conclude that US support of Israel is a root of terrorism.

68 of 70 incidents involved people from impoverished nations. That?s 94%.

So we must, by your logic, conclude that Poverty is a root cause of terrorism.

You can ?prove? nearly any hypothesis with such simplistic reasoning. I can ?prove? that breathing air causes lung cancer if I only consider the data that supports my conclusion.

Uncle Timmy avatar
Beach Fanatic
#103
How many times can you respond to one post?.


I can only answer that question statistically. The number of times I respond will be directly proportional to the number of times you are made to look foolish.

BeachSiO2 avatar
Beach Fanatic
#104
I think it is because people are not taking naps. When everyone was small, they took naps and I do not know of one instance of a kindergartener causing a terrorist attack. Crying over spilt milk- yes, but no terrorist attack. So that would be my 100% correlation? :biggrin:
Jdarg avatar
SoWal Expert
#105
I think it is because people are not taking naps. When everyone was small, they took naps and I do not know of one instance of a kindergartener causing a terrorist attack. Crying over spilt milk- yes, but no terrorist attack. So that would be my 100% correlation? :biggrin:


Good theory.

My dad always said that there is a direct relationship between grumpiness and irregularity. Maybe terrorists are constipated. We should be bombing them with fiber.:biggrin: Then they could take a nap, and everyone would be happy!:wave:
BeachSiO2 avatar
Beach Fanatic
#106
Good theory.

My dad always said that there is a direct relationship between grumpiness and irregularity. Maybe terrorists are constipated. We should be bombing them with fiber.:biggrin: Then they could take a nap, and everyone would be happy!:wave:

That's what I am talking about- let's find solutions. JDarg and I propose Metamucil and Sleeping Pills bombing runs. :clap:
Jdarg avatar
SoWal Expert
#107
That's what I am talking about- let's find solutions. JDarg and I propose Metamucil and Sleeping Pills bombing runs. :clap:

I bet it would be a whole lot cheaper than our current bombing runs. I'll throw in a few margaritas to make'em happy.
BeachSiO2 avatar
Beach Fanatic
#108
I bet it would be a whole lot cheaper than our current bombing runs. I'll throw in a few margaritas to make'em happy.

Some people get mean on Tequila :roll:

Then again I am not one of them so maybe the better answer is for us to drink margaritas and further refine our plan :scratch: :biggrin:
Jdarg avatar
SoWal Expert
#109
Some people get mean on Tequila :roll:

Then again I am not one of them so maybe the better answer is for us to drink margaritas and further refine our plan :scratch: :biggrin:

Yes, I'm often credited with solving all the world's problems when I drink a few margaritas. :lol: :floor:
BeachSiO2 avatar
Beach Fanatic
#110
Yes, I'm often credited with solving all the world's problems when I drink a few margaritas. :lol: :floor:

Are we related :funn:
Jdarg avatar
SoWal Expert
#111
Are we related :funn:

Quite possibly. I also think that we are the only ones SoWalling now. Mid-afternoon is always a good time to hijack a thread.:ninja:
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal Expert
#112
I bet it would be a whole lot cheaper than our current bombing runs.

...not if Haliburton has anything to do with it.
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal Expert
#113
Some people get mean on Tequila :roll:

maybe we should drop a marijuana smoke bomb on them. I've seen plenty of pot-heads and they are usually fairly mellow people.
Jdarg avatar
SoWal Expert
#114
...not if Haliburton has anything to do with it.

We are cutting them out of the deal.:biggrin:
BeachSiO2 avatar
Beach Fanatic
#115
Quite possibly. I also think that we are the only ones SoWalling now. Mid-afternoon is always a good time to hijack a thread.:ninja:

This isn't hijacking, this is offering insight into solutions instead of bickering. I find it funn and a nice break from the madness!
BeachSiO2 avatar
Beach Fanatic
#116
We are cutting them out of the deal.:biggrin:

Definitely
BeachSiO2 avatar
Beach Fanatic
#117
maybe we should drop a marijuana smoke bomb on them. I've seen plenty of pot-heads and they are usually fairly mellow people.

I don't know about the correlation between pot smokers and terrorists, but they do crazy s^%t on heroin :floor:
Mango avatar
SoWal Insider
#118
This isn't hijacking, this is offering insight into solutions instead of bickering. I find it funn and a nice break from the madness!

:lol: What do y'all make of this little guy? I think he needs a spinning wheel.
BeachSiO2 avatar
Beach Fanatic
#119
:lol: What do y'all make of this little guy? I think he needs a spinning wheel.

Well if you watched Shaq's big challenge, you saw how much happier Walter was after he lost 60+ pounds. I think exercise would be a good first step. :biggrin:
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal Expert
#120
:lol: What do y'all make of this little guy? I think he needs a spinning wheel.
He is probably oppressed and fed only rabbit food behind bars.
BeachSiO2 avatar
Beach Fanatic
#121
He is probably oppressed and fed only rabbit food behind bars.

Maybe we should all come up with a list of ways we are oppressed. That will help us all track future terrorists among us.

I will start with not letting me get a driving on the beach permit for my 2wd car. It's mine and I should be able to get it stuck in the sand with the rest of them if I want to. I am a property owner.

Edited

Chickpea avatar
Beach Fanatic
#122
Uncle Timmy does not need any help from anyone but calling him intellectually bankrupt is laughable. I would think that 99.99% of people on this board would find his arguments sound, intelligent and well reasoned (regardless of whether or not they concur with his views and opinions).
Jdarg avatar
SoWal Expert
#123
Maybe we should all come up with a list of ways we are oppressed. That will help us all track future terrorists among us.

I will start with not letting me get a driving on the beach permit for my 2wd car. It's mine and I should be able to get it stuck in the sand with the rest of them if I want to. I am a property owner.



:floor: You go on with your bad self!
BeachSiO2 avatar
Beach Fanatic
#124
[/b]


:floor: You go on with your bad self!

I can't "go on", Dammt I am O-P-P-R-E-S-S-E-D by the MAN!

Edited

Uncle Timmy avatar
Beach Fanatic
#125
Hey guys,

I am having fun with this thread. (And put a fair amount of effort into it). Lets not hijack it off to oblivion. Keep the comments on subject please.
30A Skunkape avatar
Skunky
#126
Hey guys,

I am having fun with this thread. (And put a fair amount of effort into it). Lets not hijack it off to oblivion. Keep the comments on subject please.

Did you say "hijack":lol:

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