Never eat meat again.

I have to say it again, I am SO GLAD we are exploring these issues here. None of this is news, it's been going on for many years; the difference is that for whatever reason a lot of folks seem motivated onw to learn more and start being more conscious of where their food is from and how it's produced.

Thinking about that sort of thing used to be the domain of the granola crowd (I include myself in that camp -- my sons call me a "Crunchy Granola Mom"), but it seems to be getting closer and closer to mainstream. A tipping point has been reached ;-)

Fair trade is an important and related issue -- and I have recently learned that just like "organic" labels, "fair trade" labels don't always mean you're getting what you think you're getting. The folks at Amavida know the ins and outs of this a lot better than I do -- they are members of a fair trade coffee buying cooperative, and they actually personally know the growers they buy from, and have visited some of the villages where the coffee they serve and sell is produced. Two of their grower representatives have visited here in the last year and given fascinating presentations on where and how the coffee is grown, processed, tested, sorted, etc.

I'm more of a tea drinker myself, and haven't heard much about fair trade tea. But I understand the tea camellia can be grown here, and have been trying to buy a couple to see if it's any good. No luck so far getting my hands on the plants -- anyone got tea camellias they're willing to share cuttings from?

I would LOVE to have some of your homegrown tea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your posts are so great!

G

I would LOVE to have some of your homegrown tea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your posts are so great!

G

Well first I gottta get me hands on some plants! Speaking of that, I want to grow mirlitons too. Do you know of a source for a good variety that does well in NOLA and might do well here too? For now I'm trying to sprout grocery store ones (probably from Mexico), but would rather have more local heirloom variety if possible. Do you know a good South LA nursery that would have these and might ship?

I made my first dish with mirlitons over the weekend -- a salsa that also had tomatoes, grilled corn, onion, and kidney beans (only because I didn't have any blackbeans on hand), lime juice and rind, Ume vinegar and sea salt. Got better after a day or two in the fridge. YUM.

Next I think I want to try them on the grill with some rosemary and garlic infused olive oil.

I tried!

I almost did saturday completely vegetarian (inc. eggs) for you guys ....................... but that failed at dinnertime when I decided my pasta sauce needed some sausage in it!

To balance it out I put in some homegrown zucchini, basil, oregano, and rosemary though!

Artichokes too! I want to get hold of some varieties that do will in LA.

Wow, I'm just getting back into town after 2 weeks of blissful computerless living and it's great to see this thread has been revived with so many informative comments.

There are so many comments I want to comment on, I don't know where to begin commenting.

While I was away, I picked up a copy of Vandana Shiva's book, Stolen Harvest: The Hijacking of the Global Food Supply to read on the road. She's a social and environmental justice activist, scientist, and advocate of creating sustainable communities. She has an incredible knack for taking the information from sources like Michael Pollan's Omnivores Dillemma and giving clear explanations of the effects of our simple daily food choices (or lack of choices.)

Susan, you're absolutely right about externalities. These are the hidden costs that are not accounted for in any money making venture. In her book, Vandana mentions these externalities in food production, but poses them in terms of myths we are led to believe. One myth is that industrially raising cattle (CAFO's) is more economical and efficient than free range, grass fed cattle that require more land and time to reach maturation. Some of the externalities not accounted for are the natural resources needed to process the waste from these concentrated feed lots and the water, land, and nutrients needed to grow the grain that is fed to the CAFO cows.

The book is a great, quick eye-opening read at only 127 pages. She takes you through a variety of foods from soy, wheat, beef, fish, etc. and how large corporations, the WTO, and the World Bank deprive us of food choices and the right to safe healthy food. She explains how the choices of the global North affect the global South. She also offers hope and inspiration as she describes the accomplishments that have been made by ordinary citizens in protecting their livelihoods and food supply. She has also started a seed saving movement called Navdanya, to save biodiversity.

Speaking of cost, I often hear, it's too expensive to eat local, organic, non-gmo food, especially now. The truth is that we pay one way or another. We are one of the cheapest nations in terms of how much we spend on food - something that is suppose to nourish and keep us healthy. We spend 9-10% of our income on food where developing countries spend upwards of 50%. Unfortunately, access to good quality food is mistaken as a luxury of the rich (dev. countries) instead of a basic right for all.

The book further reinforced my thoughts about eating consciously, supporting local farmers, being mindful of food origin, and the effects my food choices have on other beings, both human and non-human.

Addressing the issue of extreme thinking and doing: even if we don't make the best choices all the time, we have the option to make a better choice the next time. We can only start where we are and move forward with the information we have at hand.

Um, Chandra, can I borrow that book when you're finished with it? Ever considered a career writing book reviews? Welcome back, we missed you!

Um, Chandra, can I borrow that book when you're finished with it? Ever considered a career writing book reviews? Welcome back, we missed you!

No kidding, Chandra, you should post that review on Amazon.

Thanks Susan and MissCritter, I just thought it was too timely and relavent to not share.

Oh, and most of her facts are footnoted - for the skeptical.

Thanks Susan and MissCritter, I just thought it was too timely and relavent to not share.

Oh, and most of her facts are footnoted - for the skeptical.

Chandra is an excellent writer! I have been telling her that for yrs now!

Speaking of cost, I often hear, it's too expensive to eat local, organic, non-gmo food, especially now. The truth is that we pay one way or another. We are one of the cheapest nations in terms of how much we spend on food - something that is suppose to nourish and keep us healthy. We spend 9-10% of our income on food where developing countries spend upwards of 50%. Unfortunately, access to good quality food is mistaken as a luxury of the rich (dev. countries) instead of a basic right for all.

Hi Chandra I've heard some really great things about you and have read your blog too. I too have GOT to read the book - thanks for the review. You do write extremely well and are so informed. I am sure I need to go back and read more of your writings.

Regarding food costs. I never mind paying for top quality food - fresh, local and organic and even non organic that is fresh is better than no fruits and veggie that's for sure! I remember shopping with a friend who just wouldn't pay for fruits and veggies (and this is supermarket shopping) yet, paid $24 for Prilosec. We pay one way or another like you said ;-)

I have found that for me, the more simple the meal the better - especially this time of year. It has been very hot here and when summer comes, I go just about totally raw. It really works for me. But I don't do the typical raw - dehydrate the seeds and make "raw tacos", "raw pizza", etc.... Instead I make meals from what I find local or grow local (not all local but local is the focus - or should I say "seasonal"). Example would be that yesterday I had a pear, celery, ginger smoothie (like the juice at Seaside only this was blended in vitamix), later I had a mango, banana, blueberry (we grow them), strawberry, spinach (can't taste it blended) and hemp powder (hemp isn't local obviously - that's a whole other thread I could start about how wonderful hemp is) and for supper I went out and grazed on 3 types of berries and then picked a huge bowl of tomatoes which I ate with cucumbers (we grew also), peppers (we grew) and onion. I ate such a large bowl that I was fine with that - and the taste of the fresh tomatoes was not overpowered by condiments, etc... Very cooling. Later, I had a small bowl of brown rice with broccoli (my one "cooked" food for the day) It is funny, this day of eating would be considered "incomplete" because it didn't include "typical" meals. Sometimes, I eat greens for bfast - just depends on what is available. I am rambling again and off topic :roll: My point is what? I guess that I like to think of what you said when I eat - food is meant to nourish my body. That's one reason I don't have a hard time saying "no" to unhealthy foods. (I take exception on very special occasions or on vacation - but still the exceptions are minor) So.... not only are these fresh, mostly local foods better for me, but also for the enviornment and the animals. Also, these don't come in packages and most (exclude hemp, mango and nana) haven't been shipped.

I look so forward to shopping at For The Health of It - it will be so close to my house I can ride my bike and also I very much want to get involved in the community garden. It is so cool to be a part of this forum and "meet" you guys!!

G

I almost did saturday completely vegetarian (inc. eggs) for you guys ....................... but that failed at dinnertime when I decided my pasta sauce needed some sausage in it!

To balance it out I put in some homegrown zucchini, basil, oregano, and rosemary though!

Your post made me do this when I read it this morning!!

That's great - because you were thinking about the choices and "meat" was not the center of the meal. That's a yum sounding balance adding the fresh zucchini! I dearly love zucchini in pasta sauce and the fresh herbs make it so gourmet!

I think this is a perfect example of the goal of the thread.

G

Well first I gottta get me hands on some plants! Speaking of that, I want to grow mirlitons too. Do you know of a source for a good variety that does well in NOLA and might do well here too? For now I'm trying to sprout grocery store ones (probably from Mexico), but would rather have more local heirloom variety if possible. Do you know a good South LA nursery that would have these and might ship?

I made my first dish with mirlitons over the weekend -- a salsa that also had tomatoes, grilled corn, onion, and kidney beans (only because I didn't have any blackbeans on hand), lime juice and rind, Ume vinegar and sea salt. Got better after a day or two in the fridge. YUM.

Next I think I want to try them on the grill with some rosemary and garlic infused olive oil.

First I have to say I just ordered Stolen Harvest: The Hijacking of the Global Food Supply used on Amazon! Perfect, as I am almost done with the book I am currently reading!!! Let's start a book club like Oprah lol! When I get down there I can pass along the copy to anyone interested in reading it! Thanks Chandra.

Your mirliton recipe sounds fabo!! I have never grown them though, so I can't help you out with a variety. Don't you LOVE the combo of blackbeans, tomatoes, corn, onion and lime?? I say YUM also!! I make a tasty spicy Cuban blackbean soup with sweet potatoes - one of my winter staples!! PLEASE post your recipe on the recipe forum!!

G

PS Are you in FL or LA?

First I have to say I just ordered Stolen Harvest: The Hijacking of the Global Food Supply used on Amazon! Perfect, as I am almost done with the book I am currently reading!!! Let's start a book club like Oprah lol! When I get down there I can pass along the copy to anyone interested in reading it! Thanks Chandra.

Your mirliton recipe sounds fabo!! I have never grown them though, so I can't help you out with a variety. Don't you LOVE the combo of blackbeans, tomatoes, corn, onion and lime?? I say YUM also!! I make a tasty spicy Cuban blackbean soup with sweet potatoes - one of my winter staples!! PLEASE post your recipe on the recipe forum!!

G

PS Are you in FL or LA?

the book club-sharing books sounds like a great idea!
where is the gardening forum? I cant fins it and I have looked and looked!

Have you all heard (excuse me) ya'll heard of the DIRT DOCTOR?
great web site,,,,and radio show about gardening....Natural Organic Home Garden Health Howard Garrett Dirt Doctor - Natural Organic Home Garden Health Howard Garrett Dirt Doctor

The Dirt Doctor's WEEKLY ORGANIC RADIO PROGRAM offers you the best information and advice on natural organic gardening, landscaping, pet health and care, pest control, home care and a natural way to live our lives. The Dirt Doctor will help you understand why organics and how to do it.

First I have to say I just ordered Stolen Harvest: The Hijacking of the Global Food Supply used on Amazon! Perfect, as I am almost done with the book I am currently reading!!! Let's start a book club like Oprah lol! When I get down there I can pass along the copy to anyone interested in reading it! Thanks Chandra.

Your mirliton recipe sounds fabo!! I have never grown them though, so I can't help you out with a variety. Don't you LOVE the combo of blackbeans, tomatoes, corn, onion and lime?? I say YUM also!! I make a tasty spicy Cuban blackbean soup with sweet potatoes - one of my winter staples!! PLEASE post your recipe on the recipe forum!!

G

PS Are you in FL or LA?

Thanks for all the great posts! I'm in FL. Live in Seagrove, where all my spare time is about chugging along on the permaculture plan Chandra created for our 1/4-acre "homestead," LOL. Okay, if you don't know a variety of mirliton, how about a southern LA nursery that specializes in local heirloom food plants? Or a grocer that sells local heirloom mirlitons (not ones flown in from Guatemala or Mexico). I will also check with Just Fruits and Exotics over in Crawfordville to see what they know about these. (www.justfruitsandexotics.com)

Recipe. I didn't have a recipe. I just threw it all together, sorry. I cook like that most of the time... Next time I make it I will try to get a sense of quantities and write it down for posting. I would add cilantro to the blackbean group, and cukes ;-)

Blackbeans and sweet potato soup, sounds great. One of my fave winter meals is baked sweet potatoes, blackbeans over saffron rice, and cooked greens--collards, kale, whatever.

I eat a lot more raw in summer too. It is too hot to eat heavy stuff most of the time, and when I do, I pay in misery. Winter, can't do the raw thing much at all.

Have always wondered about the Vita Mix. They are so pricey. When you feel like it, please share what all you do with it. I've never been able to imagine drinking pureed stuff that I am accustomed to juicing (all that pulp frankly sounds a bit gaggy to me, no offense intended, and I welcome being corrected if this machine does something to the pulp I don't presently grasp).

Blackbeans and sweet potato soup, sounds great. One of my fave winter meals is baked sweet potatoes, blackbeans over saffron rice, and cooked greens--collards, kale, whatever.

I eat a lot more raw in summer too. It is too hot to eat heavy stuff most of the time, and when I do, I pay in misery. Winter, can't do the raw thing much at all.

Have always wondered about the Vita Mix. They are so pricey. When you feel like it, please share what all you do with it. I've never been able to imagine drinking pureed stuff that I am accustomed to juicing (all that pulp frankly sounds a bit gaggy to me, no offense intended, and I welcome being corrected if this machine does something to the pulp I don't presently grasp).

Anything with kale or collard is something I love! I grow dinosaur kale which is the BEST imo.
Have you tried it?

Vitamix - I used to juice all the time. Then I would throw out all the pulp (well, compost) and I thought I'd try the vitamix to blend the entire thing. I now LOVE it more than juicing. It really grinds things up so smooth like. For instance, in my green smoothies with kale the kale is completely smoothed and incorporated as in a milkshake. You can get something a LOT LESS PRICEY by getting a Jack LaLanne Healthmaster 100. It does the same old thing as a vitamix as I have both (or had till I gave my JL to my son).

You can make "raw" soup too as it heats up what you throw in there just enough to be warm but not destroy all enzymes.

I too couldn't go all raw in winter! NO WAY - I love my soothing warm soups too much for that and my cornbread and greens!

Gotta get off this computer and go back to new house ideas :roll::roll:

G

The reason we normally don't think about this treatment is because of the wonderful commercials we see on TV about the California cows and how they are grazing in the sun and having a great time laughing with each other.

This was the first time I saw this video and it honestly just made me feel sick. I'm about 85% red meat free...on occasion I'll grab a burger. But I do eat chicken and fish daily. Watching the rest of those videos, it makes me want to stop eating chicken too! (but I won't because it's the healthiest food that can come to my kitchen)

It's just crazy how much Americans need to consume. It's not just the ho-ho's adding to the obesity rate, its the high-fat red meat that Americans have to eat in each meal and fast food burgers.

Hopefully, like everyone is saying, we will start consuming less as a whole and can concentrate on treating these animals more humanely.

It's weird to think that if you were to take humans or dogs right from birth and treat them this way- it would look exactly the same.

The reason we normally don't think about this treatment is because of the wonderful commercials we see on TV about the California cows and how they are grazing in the sun and having a great time laughing with each other.

This was the first time I saw this video and it honestly just made me feel sick. I'm about 85% red meat free...on occasion I'll grab a burger. But I do eat chicken and fish daily. Watching the rest of those videos, it makes me want to stop eating chicken too! (but I won't because it's the healthiest food that can come to my kitchen)

It's just crazy how much Americans need to consume. It's not just the ho-ho's adding to the obesity rate, its the high-fat red meat that Americans have to eat in each meal and fast food burgers.

Hopefully, like everyone is saying, we will start consuming less as a whole and can concentrate on treating these animals more humanely.

It's weird to think that if you were to take humans or dogs right from birth and treat them this way- it would look exactly the same.

Bronk you are right about the treatment of animals. If these pics were showing dogs all people would be outraged for sure.

Regarding chicken - I hate to tell you this but chickens and pigs are the most inhumanely treated of all - mostly chickens. Now, if you can get your chicken from a local grower or from a place you check out that raises them w/out debeaking and in such crowded conditions then that would be a huge plus for the chickens - and for you.

If you ever doubt if you need animal products for health please read The China Study. While the purpose of this thread is not to convert people to veganism it still should be stated that we do not need animal products to be healthy, to grow muscle or to be an athlete. (think elephant, gorilla) Now, that said, that doesn't mean everyone would enjoy an animal free diet or feel their best on it. Sometimes, vegan diets must be tweaked. Often, people rely way too much on grains and processed vegan foods. Those make me ill when I have too much in my diet. In fact, I feel worse if I eat soy this and soy that - to an extreme or lots of wheat.

I think that refined carbohydrates - soft drinks, donuts, chips, crackers, buns, etc... also contribute a whole lot to the obesity problem. I know very overweight vegans. In fact, Lays chips and a coke are vegan lol! The goal is health for us and better treatment for animals.

for contributing to the conversation - you made some great points.

G

Thanks for all the great posts! I'm in FL. Live in Seagrove, where all my spare time is about chugging along on the permaculture plan Chandra created for our 1/4-acre "homestead," LOL. Okay, if you don't know a variety of mirliton, how about a southern LA nursery that specializes in local heirloom food plants? Or a grocer that sells local heirloom mirlitons (not ones flown in from Guatemala or Mexico). I will also check with Just Fruits and Exotics over in Crawfordville to see what they know about these. (www.justfruitsandexotics.com)

Recipe. I didn't have a recipe. I just threw it all together, sorry. I cook like that most of the time... Next time I make it I will try to get a sense of quantities and write it down for posting. I would add cilantro to the blackbean group, and cukes ;-)

Blackbeans and sweet potato soup, sounds great. One of my fave winter meals is baked sweet potatoes, blackbeans over saffron rice, and cooked greens--collards, kale, whatever.

I eat a lot more raw in summer too. It is too hot to eat heavy stuff most of the time, and when I do, I pay in misery. Winter, can't do the raw thing much at all.

Have always wondered about the Vita Mix. They are so pricey. When you feel like it, please share what all you do with it. I've never been able to imagine drinking pureed stuff that I am accustomed to juicing (all that pulp frankly sounds a bit gaggy to me, no offense intended, and I welcome being corrected if this machine does something to the pulp I don't presently grasp).

I have a vita mix and used to use it a lot when I had tons of tomatoes and a huge garden. I used to make tomato sauce that I would can. right now it has a broken part so its sitting there waiting for me to fix it.,,,but I love it!

local sources for humanely raized animal products

Anyone wanting more humanely produced animal products, check out these local suppliers.

Twin Oaks Farm | Where we grow real food Owner Renee Savary is at Seaside Farmer's Market every Saturday and sells organic eggs fro pastured hens. I believe she will eventually have organic chicken meat as well.

For the Health of It in Blue Mountain Beach 850.267.0558 Open 6 days a week, offering best selection in area of organic free-range products, and can special order for items not regularly stocked. Free range turkeys for the holidays, etc.

Toni in Grayton also has some interesting local meats including emu, but I don't know details of feeding, caged/pastured, and slaughter practices....

Try Kathy Freston's Quantum Wellness Cleanse ... part of it is avoiding animal products for 21-days. I'm 2-weeks into and and feel GREAT (+ I've lost 6lbs!). It wll give you new level of awareness about food and how it gets to your table.

Wow Lois - thanks so much for contributing that info.

What types of things do they have on your menu?

Keep us posted.

G

If you ever doubt if you need animal products for health please read The China Study. While the purpose of this thread is not to convert people to veganism it still should be stated that we do not need animal products to be healthy, to grow muscle or to be an athlete. (think elephant, gorilla)

I wrote a column awhile back about a good friend of mine(Dude). This guy is ripped and in his earlier years was a competing body builder. He has never eaten meat. He would always tell me that the meat protein from animal thing to build muscle was "bull." No Pun intended. It was really hard to debate him because he was living proof. I did not eat meat for two years after meeting him and lost 20lbs and also got in the best shape of my life. I have went back to eating meat but in very small quantities. We also try to pay close attention to where the meat is from. After watching those videos, I am not sure how long that will last.

All kinds of great things ... the cleanse involves avoiding the following items for 21-day:

Animal products
Caffeine
Gluten
Sugar
Alcohol

Instead you eat such things as:

Mixed grain cereals (without Gluten and sugar).
Gluten-free bread.
Grains such as brown or wild rice, quinoa, buckwheat, corn.
Nuts: almonds, walnuts, cashews, soynuts, filberts, etc.
Seeds: sunflower, sesame, pumpkin ...
Nut or Seed butters: peanut butter, cashew butter.
Beans & Legumes: black beans, lentils, chickpeas, black-eyed peas, edamame.
Faux meats: burgers, sausage patties, etc.
Artichoke, rice or quinoa pasta.
Pasta sauce
Vegetables
Fruits
Non-dairy milk
Herbal teas
Popcorn
Cornchips
Guacamole
Hummus
etc.

I've been having some terrific meals, such as:

Tomato Herb Risotto
Curries
Artichoke & Mushroom Paella
Roasted summer corn and basil grits w/ blackbean chipotle burger
Spaghetti with Mixed Herb Pesto
Tomato & Onion Quesadillas
Rice & Corn Stuuffed Peppers
Basmati & Black-eyed pea Pilaf
Creamy Italian White Bean Soup
Moroccan Vegetable Stew w/ Harissa Paste
Tuscan Beans
Cream of Asparagus Soup

and much more ...

Fantastic assortments of whole foods! I dearly love quinoa and make a super tabouli out of it - instead of using wheat.

I am thrilled to hear that you are not having any wheat. Anyone reading this thread should seriously give that a try if they are having any allergies, stomach/digestive issues, acne, aches and pains, etc... I kept a food diary at one point many years back and looking back it was amazing how often I ate wheat. Morning, noon and night. No longer in my daily menu. Of course, refined is the worst, but still, giving the body a break from wheat is a great idea.

It really goes without saying that giving your body a rest from animal products is a must - even if it is for just a short time. It is so less taxing on the system to not have to spend energy on digestion. I imagine your energy level has soared!!

Thanks again and do keep us posted.

G

I wrote a column awhile back about a good friend of mine(Dude). This guy is ripped and in his earlier years was a competing body builder. He has never eaten meat. He would always tell me that the meat protein from animal thing to build muscle was "bull." No Pun intended. It was really hard to debate him because he was living proof. I did not eat meat for two years after meeting him and lost 20lbs and also got in the best shape of my life. I have went back to eating meat but in very small quantities. We also try to pay close attention to where the meat is from. After watching those videos, I am not sure how long that will last.

I believe it - I would have liked to have seen Dude!! Bet he looked great!!

Carl Lewis, was, at his peak vegan. He said he never felt better.

Here's a list of others - starting with my personal hero, author and Ironman medalist, Ruth Heidrich. Her book, Racing For Life - the story about her recovery from breast cancer via a vegan diet, is a must read. She and I exchange emails - she inspires me always!

Almost Vegetarian: Famous vegetarian athletes

G