I've kept my mouth shut, but can't take it anymore

Though I'm not convinced that either candidate was a great choice, it seems that many merely voted Bush out of office.....I guess that they didn't realize that he was going to leave anyway! And many others voted simply to see/make "history". In both cases, those votes were wasted. I think that in this election, regardless of who might have been elected, both sides would have ended up equally disappointed, and equally disenfranchised.

That said, many of us have been blessed to earn ourselves a piece of paradise, yet the pointless to-and-fro in this, and many other endless political threads, shows that many prefer their own personal disgruntled hell. All things being equal, in the coming years I will most likely no longer enjoy being a part of the "middle-class", but I will remain "happy2beme" because no one can take from me the paradise that is within my mind and spirit. Four years will come and go quickly; I'll await the next election and hope for a better day.....

Really? Have you have made up your mind the next four years are not going to be better days. You're just what this country doesn't need, just keep on being you.

Same story, different source

Maybe Obama need to learn a little respect himself

It is so interesting how different the news is reported from different sources. Below is CNN's take on the leak story CCK shared-

Note to CCK: this is exactly why I suggest we all balance our information sources. The article you posted vilified Obama's people-which prompted you to add your own commentary that Obama was disrespectful of the president. Here are the same events presented in a way that does not seem to point fingers at anyone in particular, IMHO...

************************
(CNN) – At their private Oval Office meeting on Monday, President-elect Barack Obama urged President Bush to support billions of dollars in aid for the struggling auto industry during the upcoming lame-duck session of Congress, according to three officials briefed on the meeting.

The officials said Bush privately expressed skepticism about taxpayer money for automakers on the heels of a string of government bailouts for other industries, and the president also urged Obama to help push through a free trade pact with Colombia – a key legacy item for the outgoing administration that is facing stiff resistance from Democrats on Capitol Hill.

But a senior Bush administration official seemed to downplay suggestions that Bush was offering a quid pro quo by saying the White House still believes the trade deal “deserves to pass on its own merits” without being linked to anything else.

The officials familiar with the meeting said Obama made the case that dramatic action needs to be taken this year – rather than after he is sworn into office – because the Big Three U.S. automakers are bleeding cash at an alarming rate.

One of the officials noted that about one in ten jobs in America are tied to the auto industry, and if one of the companies goes bankrupt it could have a massive spillover effect into the credit industry and other sectors. “The numbers are so staggering,” said the official. “It’s a huge piece of the financial fabric of the country.”

The senior Bush administration official said the White House is “open to ideas from Congress to accelerate funds they’ve already appropriated” to help the auto industry.

But the administration official said support would come “as long as funding will continue to go to viable firms and with strong taxpayer protections” linked to the auto industry aid.

An official in the auto industry told CNN that bringing the Colombian pact into the negotiations could be a poison pill that prevents passage of an auto industry package. But a senior Democratic aide suggested Congress may be willing to call Bush’s bluff and try to pass an auto industry aid package without the trade deal.

The senior aide said Democrats do not believe “this president wants to add the demise of GM to his legacy list.”

Really? Have you have made up your mind the next four years are not going to be better days. You're just what this country doesn't need, just keep on being you.

Poppy, I did not get the "nothing is going to get better" idea from his/her post, I took from it that they were happy with their life and that no matter what happened nothing could take that joy away. I saw a positive, not a negative.

Pls be mindful that my post was not about Bush nor did I say he was dumb nor did I say that the smarter people are on the way and will save us all...



EDIT: But that said,
shall we do a poll?

What is better-
a President who is viewed as being smart or a president who is viewed as being dumb?

I understand Geo.
My point(s) were serveral in sharing those articles... among them.
1) The NY times article plays into the "messiah" complex that Obama has allowed to proliferate.

2) As Thomas Sowell stated so "intelligently"; just because someone has a reputation of being "unintelligent" does not mean they are.

3) Sometimes an "intelligent"-educated person is not as smart as they want people to believe.

4) The media is biased and Sowell exposed it in this one of many columns.

Time will tell and history will bear witness to all the speculation going on here. Barack Obama has more than his share of issues to deal with and he will be tested like never before. A poll is not necessary, intelligence and common sense is what we need. We don't need a rock star right now...

I understand Geo.
My point(s) were serveral in sharing those articles... among them.
1) The NY times article plays into the "messiah" complex that Obama has allowed to proliferate.

2) As Thomas Sowell stated so "intelligently"; just because someone has a reputation of being "unintelligent" does not mean they are.

3) Sometimes an "intelligent"-educated person is not as smart as they want people to believe.

4) The media is biased and Sowell exposed it in this one of many columns.

Time will tell and history will bear witness to all the speculation going on here. Barack Obama has more than his share of issues to deal with and he will be tested like never before. A poll is not necessary, intelligence and common sense is what we need. We don't need a rock star right now...

Fair points...
IMHO, we;ve got ourselves an intelligent rock star with common sense...





Just having fun! Don't bury me for that one...
:shock:

It is so interesting how different the news is reported from different sources. Below is CNN's take on the leak story CCK shared-

Note to CCK: this is exactly why I suggest we all balance our information sources. The article you posted vilified Obama's people-which prompted you to add your own commentary that Obama was disrespectful of the president. Here are the same events presented in a way that does not seem to point fingers at anyone in particular, IMHO...

************************
(CNN) ? At their private Oval Office meeting on Monday, President-elect Barack Obama urged President Bush to support billions of dollars in aid for the struggling auto industry during the upcoming lame-duck session of Congress, according to three officials briefed on the meeting.

The officials said Bush privately expressed skepticism about taxpayer money for automakers on the heels of a string of government bailouts for other industries, and the president also urged Obama to help push through a free trade pact with Colombia ? a key legacy item for the outgoing administration that is facing stiff resistance from Democrats on Capitol Hill.

But a senior Bush administration official seemed to downplay suggestions that Bush was offering a quid pro quo by saying the White House still believes the trade deal ?deserves to pass on its own merits? without being linked to anything else.

The officials familiar with the meeting said Obama made the case that dramatic action needs to be taken this year ? rather than after he is sworn into office ? because the Big Three U.S. automakers are bleeding cash at an alarming rate.

One of the officials noted that about one in ten jobs in America are tied to the auto industry, and if one of the companies goes bankrupt it could have a massive spillover effect into the credit industry and other sectors. ?The numbers are so staggering,? said the official. ?It?s a huge piece of the financial fabric of the country.?

The senior Bush administration official said the White House is ?open to ideas from Congress to accelerate funds they?ve already appropriated? to help the auto industry.

But the administration official said support would come ?as long as funding will continue to go to viable firms and with strong taxpayer protections? linked to the auto industry aid.

An official in the auto industry told CNN that bringing the Colombian pact into the negotiations could be a poison pill that prevents passage of an auto industry package. But a senior Democratic aide suggested Congress may be willing to call Bush?s bluff and try to pass an auto industry aid package without the trade deal.

The senior aide said Democrats do not believe ?this president wants to add the demise of GM to his legacy list.?

Part of the problem with this administration "senior" people cannot keep their mouth shut.

No matter who leaked, it is not the way to conduct business.

I understand Geo.
My point(s) were serveral in sharing those articles... among them.
1) The NY times article plays into the "messiah" complex that Obama has allowed to proliferate.

2) As Thomas Sowell stated so "intelligently"; just because someone has a reputation of being "unintelligent" does not mean they are.

3) Sometimes an "intelligent"-educated person is not as smart as they want people to believe.

4) The media is biased and Sowell exposed it in this one of many columns.

Time will tell and history will bear witness to all the speculation going on here. Barack Obama has more than his share of issues to deal with and he will be tested like never before. A poll is not necessary, intelligence and common sense is what we need. We don't need a rock star right now...

Rock Star? Really? Well that he may be, but he's also the most down-to-earth plain spoken president we've had in my lifetime IMO.

Rock Star? Really? Well that he may be, but he's also the most down-to-earth plain spoken president we've had in my lifetime IMO.

I am trying to keep an open mind, but I think you are getting carried away. :shock: Although there is not alot of competition for "down-to-earth plain spoken" Presidents, unfortunately.

Thanks for opining but, no, I don't expect four horrible years. Instead, I hope for a better day tomorrow, under the hopefully-beneficial leadership of our new president-elect and his cast of cronies, just as I have with every president in days gone by. Whether that will happen, only time will tell.

Like I said, you can't take away my paradise, because I CHOOSE happiness over being p/o'd, resentful, or overly-expectant that any one many will fix what the mess that is our current state of affairs. It's easy to point fingers, but that state isn't solely thanks to George W., nor to a given party but, instead to the greed and overindulgence by the few that caused a hiccup in our perfect union, and to the self-fulfilling prophesy of doom caused by those who panicked at the thought that the sky was falling.

That said, you are right about one thing...... the world does need more like me.....I'm a realist, not a groupie, nor a fanatic, nor a self-important wind-bag that thinks my way is the only way, and that those who disagree are somehow less informed. Thanks for sharing.

That said, you are right about one thing...... the world does need more like me.....I'm a realist, not a groupie, nor a fanatic, nor a self-important wind-bag that thinks my way is the only way, and that those who disagree are somehow less informed. Thanks for sharing.

I'm trying to figure out who I am in your story-

The groupie, the fanatic or the self-important wind-bag that thinks my way is the only way, and that those who disagree are somehow less informed...

I am trying to keep an open mind, but I think you are getting carried away. :shock: Although there is not alot of competition for "down-to-earth plain spoken" Presidents, unfortunately.

Maybe daddy Bush was up there. Certainly not Reagan, especially after the Iran Contra stuff hit the fan.

Fair points...
IMHO, we;ve got ourselves an intelligent rock star with common sense...





Just having fun! Don't bury me for that one...
:shock:

I'm glad we can have fun and discuss

I totally agree. EDIT- Save for the last part about it making little difference who sits in the chair in the Oval Office.

Thanks for playing. There was a big IF before the last part, "If all support and respect it (the US Constitution and Office of the President), it makes little difference in who sits in the chair in the Oval Office."

It is so interesting how different the news is reported from different sources. Below is CNN's take on the leak story CCK shared-

Note to CCK: this is exactly why I suggest we all balance our information sources. The article you posted vilified Obama's people-which prompted you to add your own commentary that Obama was disrespectful of the president. Here are the same events presented in a way that does not seem to point fingers at anyone in particular, IMHO...

************************
(CNN) – At their private Oval Office meeting on Monday, President-elect Barack Obama urged President Bush to support billions of dollars in aid for the struggling auto industry during the upcoming lame-duck session of Congress, according to three officials briefed on the meeting.

The officials said Bush privately expressed skepticism about taxpayer money for automakers on the heels of a string of government bailouts for other industries, and the president also urged Obama to help push through a free trade pact with Colombia – a key legacy item for the outgoing administration that is facing stiff resistance from Democrats on Capitol Hill.

But a senior Bush administration official seemed to downplay suggestions that Bush was offering a quid pro quo by saying the White House still believes the trade deal “deserves to pass on its own merits” without being linked to anything else.

The officials familiar with the meeting said Obama made the case that dramatic action needs to be taken this year – rather than after he is sworn into office – because the Big Three U.S. automakers are bleeding cash at an alarming rate.

One of the officials noted that about one in ten jobs in America are tied to the auto industry, and if one of the companies goes bankrupt it could have a massive spillover effect into the credit industry and other sectors. “The numbers are so staggering,” said the official. “It’s a huge piece of the financial fabric of the country.”

The senior Bush administration official said the White House is “open to ideas from Congress to accelerate funds they’ve already appropriated” to help the auto industry.

But the administration official said support would come “as long as funding will continue to go to viable firms and with strong taxpayer protections” linked to the auto industry aid.

The way I read this - Bush is open to helping the auto makers assuming there are taxpayer protections in place. He would also like to see an important free trade agreement go through with one of our close allies, but the Democrats in congress are still playing politricks over the issue even though the election is over. Is this the change we were looking for?

The way I read this - Bush is open to helping the auto makers assuming there are taxpayer protections in place. He would also like to see an important free trade agreement go through with one of our close allies, but the Democrats in congress are still playing politricks over the issue even though the election is over. Is this the change we were looking for?

I read it that Bush doesn't want to give $ to automakers and won't committ to anything. He wants Obama to help get his unpopular "legacy" legislation through Congress in exchange for it because Democrats are objecting to the 90 fast tracking of it, not playing politics.

Find it rather odd that you think Bush is supposedly so big on taxpayer protections when his admin won't even tell the taxpayers what companies their hundreds of billions are bailing out!!!!

I don't know if uncomfortable is the word , more like unsettled, but I agree, as a whole he looked unsettled, not just about Iran, but on everything. he started to gain more composure towards the end of the press conference. I am not sure what you mean though about his response regarding Iran. He didn't say anything we haven't heard already, and the Iranians already are in an uproar about his comment related to not tolerating their aiding terrorists. Also, lets not forget that there is a an election for the Presidency in Iran and Ahmandinejad is playing the politics game. Obama's got Poland spreading rumors that he said the missile defense program was go, Russia is breathing down his throat about it. We've got major economic problems here for him to contend with. The CIA and FBI have reported an exponential amount of domestic death threats since September. He's got Pelosi and Reid to deal with and setting up his Cabinet and staff members. To boot, I am sure there is intelligence that, we the public, are not privy to. Let's give him some time to gain his footing.

Hail, if it were me, I would be looking for some remote island for me and my family and to heck with it all.

Yep. Me too. Remember what I told you election night.....I got the impression during his speech that he might just be thinking..."Oh sheet".

Ooops...wrong forum....:leaving:

Let us please not forget that over 63 million voted for Obama and many were exactly like me - we did not view Obama as a saint who could do no wrong - we were just quite excited about someone we view as incredibly intelligent, well educated, analytical, motivating and exciting and I for one am greatly looking forward to the next 4 years (and if he is good to the next 8). This does not mean he will not stumble or make mistakes but my bets for now are solidly on him.

Here is one annecdote I found particularly sad last wednesday when a 9 year old boy basically out smarted his father - a bit lengthy but you will see the gotcha moment son had with his father at the end.

I was talking with a Republican I know and like a great deal and I was explaining that I had been shocked when a 8 year old boy had seen my Obama badge and had said to me, "Obama sucks, he hates Americans and I hope he loses" - the vehemence of his verbal attack shocked me but I basically shrugged it off while feeling great sorrow for him. I was/am comforted by the fact that I have instilled in my daughters a respect for the office of the president and my 8 year old told me she would never talk like that about McCain - she and her friends talk politics lightly and after talking with my husband and I and because we explained why we preferred Obama, she was quite capable of explaining to others some of the reasons why we would like to see him elected and not a bad word was said about McCain BUT if his name did come up she would say he is honorable and a good man but that we were hoping for an Obama victory.

Anyways - back to wednesday (the day after) and this friend was telling me that when it became clear that Obama had won, he told his son to go to bed. his son (who is actually a really smart kid) said, "Dad, I am terribly scared - americans have elected a dangerous man to lead this country, he has terrorist friends, and he does not care about Americans." To which his dad replied, "Well son, Obama is now our president and he is a good man and we must wish him well." To which the son replied, "Well if this is the case, why did you and others say that he was dangerous - did you not mean this?"

I thought this was very telling because I also woke up the next day and as exhilirated as I felt I also realized that many in this country were waking up scared and frightened - not because they differ ideologically to Obama - that would be easy- but because they bought the distasteful smears that his opponent spread. McCain's concession was so gracious and generous that many of us who used to like him were left thinking where the hell that McCain had disappeared to during his campaign.

Anyways, I personally can do nothing about those people who truely fear him (like the 25% of texans who think he is muslim) - I am just really comforted that the majority in the country wish him well, are rooting for him to succeed and most of all, I am just so proud that our daughters saw us get passionate and excited about a candidate without tearing his opponent apart.

Let us please not forget that over 63 million voted for Obama and many were exactly like me - we did not view Obama as a saint who could do no wrong - we were just quite excited about someone we view as incredibly intelligent, well educated, analytical, motivating and exciting and I for one am greatly looking forward to the next 4 years (and if he is good to the next 8). This does not mean he will not stumble or make mistakes but my bets for now are solidly on him.

Here is one annecdote I found particularly sad last wednesday when a 9 year old boy basically out smarted his father - a bit lengthy but you will see the gotcha moment son had with his father at the end.

I was talking with a Republican I know and like a great deal and I was explaining that I had been shocked when a 8 year old boy had seen my Obama badge and had said to me, "Obama sucks, he hates Americans and I hope he loses" - the vehemence of his verbal attack shocked me but I basically shrugged it off while feeling great sorrow for him. I was/am comforted by the fact that I have instilled in my daughters a respect for the office of the president and my 8 year old told me she would never talk like that about McCain - she and her friends talk politics lightly and after talking with my husband and I and because we explained why we preferred Obama, she was quite capable of explaining to others some of the reasons why we would like to see him elected and not a bad word was said about McCain BUT if his name did come up she would say he is honorable and a good man but that we were hoping for an Obama victory.

Anyways - back to wednesday (the day after) and this friend was telling me that when it became clear that Obama had won, he told his son to go to bed. his son (who is actually a really smart kid) said, "Dad, I am terribly scared - americans have elected a dangerous man to lead this country, he has terrorist friends, and he does not care about Americans." To which his dad replied, "Well son, Obama is now our president and he is a good man and we must wish him well." To which the son replied, "Well if this is the case, why did you and others say that he was dangerous - did you not mean this?"

I thought this was very telling because I also woke up the next day and as exhilirated as I felt I also realized that many in this country were waking up scared and frightened - not because they differ ideologically to Obama - that would be easy- but because they bought the distasteful smears that his opponent spread. McCain's concession was so gracious and generous that many of us who used to like him were left thinking where the hell that McCain had disappeared to during his campaign.

Anyways, I personally can do nothing about those people who truely fear him (like the 25% of texans who think he is muslim) - I am just really comforted that the majority in the country wish him well, are rooting for him to succeed and most of all, I am just so proud that our daughters saw us get passionate and excited about a candidate without tearing his opponent apart.

Maybe I came into this thread late, but for me, the election is over. Why are we still complaining about McCain, the election, why am I still seeing the press attack Palin, why are people still complaining Obama won. The election is over. Lets move on.

I read it that Bush doesn't want to give $ to automakers and won't committ to anything. He wants Obama to help get his unpopular "legacy" legislation through Congress in exchange for it because Democrats are objecting to the 90 fast tracking of it, not playing politics.

Find it rather odd that you think Bush is supposedly so big on taxpayer protections when his admin won't even tell the taxpayers what companies their hundreds of billions are bailing out!!!!

The Columbia free trade agreement has nothing to do with legacy, that was just the way CNN decided to word the article they wrote. South America is experiencing a surge in socialist/extremist governments. We have a strong democratic government down there we are allies with in Columbia. They have products we would like to purchase, we have products they would like to purchase. Strengthening their economy has a positive effect on that area of the world and is good for us over the long term. Why are Democrats so afraid of this agreement? What is so unpopular about a trade agreement with a small South American country? Could someone please justify the Democrats dislike for this agreement, as I've not read a single article explaining why this would be bad for the country. I'm sorry but this to me is nothing more than Democrats in Congress playing the same old same old. It's exactly what I was hoping this election would bring an end too - but I have low hopes we'll actually see it.

Maybe I came into this thread late, but for me, the election is over. Why are we still complaining about McCain, the election, why am I still seeing the press attack Palin, why are people still complaining Obama won. The election is over. Lets move on.

I am wondering the same thing. Seems like a bunch of flaming of a fire for no reason.

Let us please not forget that over 63 million voted for Obama and many were exactly like me - we did not view Obama as a saint who could do no wrong - we were just quite excited about someone we view as incredibly intelligent, well educated, analytical, motivating and exciting and I for one am greatly looking forward to the next 4 years (and if he is good to the next 8). This does not mean he will not stumble or make mistakes but my bets for now are solidly on him.

Here is one annecdote I found particularly sad last wednesday when a 9 year old boy basically out smarted his father - a bit lengthy but you will see the gotcha moment son had with his father at the end.

I was talking with a Republican I know and like a great deal and I was explaining that I had been shocked when a 8 year old boy had seen my Obama badge and had said to me, "Obama sucks, he hates Americans and I hope he loses" - the vehemence of his verbal attack shocked me but I basically shrugged it off while feeling great sorrow for him. I was/am comforted by the fact that I have instilled in my daughters a respect for the office of the president and my 8 year old told me she would never talk like that about McCain - she and her friends talk politics lightly and after talking with my husband and I and because we explained why we preferred Obama, she was quite capable of explaining to others some of the reasons why we would like to see him elected and not a bad word was said about McCain BUT if his name did come up she would say he is honorable and a good man but that we were hoping for an Obama victory.

Anyways - back to wednesday (the day after) and this friend was telling me that when it became clear that Obama had won, he told his son to go to bed. his son (who is actually a really smart kid) said, "Dad, I am terribly scared - americans have elected a dangerous man to lead this country, he has terrorist friends, and he does not care about Americans." To which his dad replied, "Well son, Obama is now our president and he is a good man and we must wish him well." To which the son replied, "Well if this is the case, why did you and others say that he was dangerous - did you not mean this?"

I thought this was very telling because I also woke up the next day and as exhilirated as I felt I also realized that many in this country were waking up scared and frightened - not because they differ ideologically to Obama - that would be easy- but because they bought the distasteful smears that his opponent spread. McCain's concession was so gracious and generous that many of us who used to like him were left thinking where the hell that McCain had disappeared to during his campaign.

Anyways, I personally can do nothing about those people who truely fear him (like the 25% of texans who think he is muslim) - I am just really comforted that the majority in the country wish him well, are rooting for him to succeed and most of all, I am just so proud that our daughters saw us get passionate and excited about a candidate without tearing his opponent apart.

The man should have told his son " I have serious reservations about Mr. Obama, but in our country the majority rules and the majority do not feel like I do. So now for all our sakes we need to wish him well and pray he is the leader we need. If the majority was right this time, we all win, if they were wrong and I was right, then we will have another chance to do better in 4 years."

It is important to teach our children about exactly how the system works. It is also important for them to see that we can be passionate about the contest, but when the contest is over, we can all support the system.

I am wondering the same thing. Seems like a bunch of flaming of a fire for no reason.

It's what self important windbags like myself do- we fan fires.
;-)

I personally enjoy the discussion/debate. And I personally have a hard time letting some things go (it is my gift, it is my curse). The original post set me off and it didn't take much for all of us to arrive at a place we know so well in the Politics forum-



No hard feelings, guys...

G

It's what self important windbags like myself do- we fan fires.
;-)

I personally enjoy the discussion/debate. And I personally have a hard time letting some things go (it is my gift, it is my curse). The original post set me off and it didn't take much for all of us to arrive at a place we know so well in the Politics forum-



No hard feelings, guys...

G

Till next time.

It's what self important windbags like myself do- we fan fires.
;-)

I personally enjoy the discussion/debate. And I personally have a hard time letting some things go (it is my gift, it is my curse). The original post set me off and it didn't take much for all of us to arrive at a place we know so well in the Politics forum-



No hard feelings, guys...

G

I know how much you enjoy these discussions. I am just wondering if some of the people that have been posting about politics in the last year went back and read some of the posts they posted, would they still be proud of what they wrote? It seems to me that even though their candidate has won the vote of the people they are still not happy.

I know how much you enjoy these discussions. I am just wondering if some of the people that have been posting about politics in the last year went back and read some of the posts they posted, would they still be proud of what they wrote? It seems to me that even though their candidate has won the vote of the people they are still not happy.

Swiss banks and 24 hour gun shops...what is there to frown about?