Bible verses on weapons

"Should Christianity be kept out of the US military? No, Jesus isn't gay!" - Colbert on the Scripture serial numbers on scopes.

He is patenting the "handgre-bible" - they will accept Jesus into their heart, skull, and abdomen.

the very best response of all. just my opinion of course!!!

I agree but I think the government is the stupid one in this, not the vendor. He has the right to put them on the sights if he chooses. The government has the right not to purchase them, if they so choose.

I am not saying I agree with the vendor's way of sharing his faith, but I do agree with his right to do it.

totally agree Minnie. The government either made a mistake or they have some kind of agreement with this company. whattayagonna do? I don't blame scooty for being angry at such a stupid military thing - it is totally stupid. But, its not the stupidest thing they have ever done. by far.

Not inviting. Angel Red by Clinique.

ya'll are cracking me up.



BH - I must agree with you that its just not important in the big scheme. what's the big deal. But, I must also say - if anyone cared one to ask me what my personal opinion is on this issue - I would have to say that it is makes no sense whatsoever for our government to have religious/bible quotes on our weapons - of any kind. for so many reasons. it sounds like some scene out of a bad comedy war movie like Tropic Thunder (which I loved, btw - I laughed all the way through - the bible quotes on weapons should have been included!!!).. if they want to give our troops positive movitation through quotes on a weopon - they can find a lot better ones that actually apply, that actually have real meaning in this world, that actually matter to soldiers of all backgrounds. better yet - leave it off weapons. it doesn't make a bit of sense. it does not belong.

on the other hand, who really cares? but if I had to offer a real opinion, I would have to go with Colbert.

the very best response of all. just my opinion of course!!!




totally agree Minnie. The government either made a mistake or they have some kind of agreement with this company. whattayagonna do? I don't blame scooty for being angry at such a stupid military thing - it is totally stupid. But, its not the stupidest thing they have ever done. by far.



ya'll are cracking me up.



BH - lighten up girlfriend. I do agree with you that its just not important in the big scheme. But, I must also say that I also believe it is a wrong move by our government to have religious/bible quotes on our weapons. how dumb is that? for so many reasons. if they want to give our troops positive movitation through quotes on a weopon - they can find a lot better ones that actually apply, that actually have real meaning in this world, that actually matter to soldiers of all backgrounds. better yet - leave it off weapons. it doesn't make a bit of sense. it does not belong.

on the other hand, who really cares? but if I had to offer a real opinion, I would have to go with Colbert.

He's a genius.

Colbert and Stewart are my favorite "news" anchors!

So much better to be laughing than yelling at the TV.

No More Jesus Rifles

Earlier today, Gen. David Petraeus, who commands CentCom, which oversees U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, told a D.C. thinktank that the company's practice was "disturbing …and a serious concern for me" and field commanders. He said there had been considerable discussions within the Department of Defense about how to deal with Trijicon's practice.
The Trijicon statement said that the company would: "Remove the inscription reference on all U.S. military products that are in the company's factory that have already been produced, but have yet to be shipped" and "Provide 100 modification kits to forces in the field to remove the reference on the already forward deployed optical sights."
The company also said it would ensure future procurements from the Department of Defense are produced without scripture references,a nd offer foreign forces that have purchased the products "the same remedies."
Haris Tarin, director of the Washington, D.C., office of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, a civil-rights group, said his organization welcomed the announcement. Said Tarin, "We must ensure that incidents like these are not repeated, so as not to give the impression that our country is involved in a religious crusade, which hurts America's image abroad and puts our soldiers in harms way."

sounds like good news. but I still wonder: what in the world were the secret coded references to New Testament bible passages about Jesus Christ doing on US Military high-powered rifle sights? shown on the side of the gunsight is a series of letters & numbers, in code. I must admit it doesn't look like anything but a serial number. so its not that obvious - I wonder if soldiers even noticed or knew what the code was for. still, not a good thing for the US to have religious references on weapons. still strikes me as very strange.

No More Jesus Rifles
look like anything but a serial number. so its not that obvious - I wonder if soldiers even noticed or knew what the code was for. still, not a good thing for the US to have religious references on weapons. still strikes me as very strange.

Tootsie, it was the troops who noticed and asked for something to be done about it....


washingtonpost.com

"Mikey Weinstein, president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, contacted The Associated Press last week about the Scripture citations. He said he had received complaints from active-duty and retired members of the military. Weinstein said he couldn't identify them because they fear retaliation. "

Onion

ABC News reported that, since 2005, military contractor Trijicon has been engraving coded Bible passages on sniper sights supplied to soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.

What do you think?





Lori Bean,
Systems Analyst

"It would be better if they were printed inside the barrel so the message would rub off on the bullet as it exited the gun."






Brad Charles,
Sniper

"And to think, all this time I’ve been hand-carving the Second Epistle to the Corinthians into my scope like some kind of chump."






Jerry Bailey,
Substation Operator

"That's not fair. I heard the Jewish snipers got their rifles engraved with Seinfeld quotes."

I agree but I think the government is the stupid one in this, not the vendor. He has the right to put them on the sights if he chooses. The government has the right not to purchase them, if they so choose.

I am not saying I agree with the vendor's way of sharing his faith, but I do agree with his right to do it.

and this is the bottom line. I think everyone here agrees with you minnie. I'm not sure what a couple of above attitudes were all about. but you always post with knowledge, patience, and much respect for others. your contributions are valuable. thank you!

I'm surprised Jesus hasn't just chimed in, doesn't he post from time to time on here?

I'm surprised Jesus hasn't just chimed in, doesn't he post from time to time on here?

He speaks through me. Is there anything you'd like to ask him?

If the Muslonutz get wind of the fact that there is a 'code' on American weapons referencing the New Testament, they will have fodder to recruit more nutz to fight the 'Crusaders'.

If this was truly a concern, then why would one feel compelled to splash headlines and ALERT our war enemy that some US weapons feature such inscription? I'm willing to bet that discreetly alerting Gen. Petreus would have resulted in these weapons being phased out. But instead, well, I'm sure somewhere right now some loser with mayhem on his mind is blogging about it from his cave.

He speaks through me. Is there anything you'd like to ask him?

Ask him why he chose such a tool to speak through.

Ask him why he chose such a tool to speak through.

Nasty, Nasty, Nasty!!!

ABC News reported that, since 2005, military contractor Trijicon has been engraving coded Bible passages on sniper sights supplied to soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.

What do you think?





Lori Bean,
Systems Analyst

"It would be better if they were printed inside the barrel so the message would rub off on the bullet as it exited the gun."






Brad Charles,
Sniper

"And to think, all this time I?ve been hand-carving the Second Epistle to the Corinthians into my scope like some kind of chump."






Jerry Bailey,
Substation Operator

"That's not fair. I heard the Jewish snipers got their rifles engraved with Seinfeld quotes."

LOVE IT

It is very obvious from reading this thread that no one appears to have been shot at in a combat situation. If they had, they would know that those shooting back could care less about what is inscribed on their weapon, only that it is the best possible and accomplishes the mission for which it was designed.

Andy A - I've thought a lot about this one post today. You are so right. thank you for putting things in perspective.

Nasty, Nasty, Nasty!!!

I don't get it!

They complain because there are verses on the outside casing of the weapon. Soon, they'll be complaining about the cross they see when they look through it!

Here's a solution: place a "I am a anti-bible verses on weapon kind of person" sticker in all packaging and solve all of thier problems!

They complain because there are verses on the outside casing of the weapon. Soon, they'll be complaining about the cross they see when they look through it!

Here's a solution: place a "I am a anti-bible verses on weapon kind of person" sticker in all packaging and solve all of thier problems!

Hmm, I'm guessing that's either sarcasm or you're not very up on christianity.

These are crosses:



This is a sight on a gun.



Not the asymmetry of one and the symmetry of the other.

Yes SWGB, that's sarcasm!

If the Muslonutz get wind of the fact that there is a 'code' on American weapons referencing the New Testament, they will have fodder to recruit more nutz to fight the 'Crusaders'.

If this was truly a concern, then why would one feel compelled to splash headlines and ALERT our war enemy that some US weapons feature such inscription? I'm willing to bet that discreetly alerting Gen. Petreus would have resulted in these weapons being phased out. But instead, well, I'm sure somewhere right now some loser with mayhem on his mind is blogging about it from his cave.

Because we live in America with a free press that doesn't allow mistakes to be swept under the rug. When a Christian crazed company produces a product for our military with references to bible verses cast into them we let the world know it doesn't reflect the viewpoint of the American people and we take corrective action. It would be a far worse scenario if one these sights fell into the hands of the enemy and they used it for their propaganda claiming it was proof America was engaging in a crusade. We would all be outraged watching our military trying to convince the world it was just a mistake and not a cover-up.

Because we live in America with a free press that doesn't allow mistakes to be swept under the rug. When a Christian crazed company produces a product for our military with references to bible verses cast into them we let the world know it doesn't reflect the viewpoint of the American people and we take corrective action. It would be a far worse scenario if one these sights fell into the hands of the enemy and they used it for their propaganda claiming it was proof America was engaging in a crusade. We would all be outraged watching our military trying to convince the world it was just a mistake and not a cover-up.

I understand that some have an ACLUish instinct to shine light on anything and everything while letting the chips fall as they may.

My opinion is that this sort of expose is self serving on the USA Today's part (or whoever ran with the original story). The bottom line is that it does nothing but give hate fodder to desperate brains that can be swayed to inflict harm on our troops. Period. Oh sure, now we know that there is a tiny etching of a biblical verse on some gun components (I would have mistaken them for serial numbers or some such had I had one in my possession). But at what cost? The etching will cease and kits are being made available to eliminate those that are in circulation...but the public relations cost of this sort of "we're American and have a free press and have a right to know" report is tremendous. Had the proper parties been notified prior to the story being run, most likely the same corrective outcome would have been realized.

I might point out that I am not alone in my line of thinking. I seem to remember outrage on the part of a few "we need to see it all no matter what" types when Obama's White House nixed the release of prisoner photos that no doubt would have damaged our efforts and further endangered our countrymen trying to stabilize a part of the world that for better or worse we find ourselves in. As the President put it, "In fact, the most direct consequence of releasing them would be to further inflame anti-American opinion, and to put our troops in greater danger." It seems to me that running the story on the weapons is analogously harmful, pointless and short sighted. The whole photo story is here: Obama reverses course on alleged prison abuse photos - CNN.com

By the way, the idea that one of these guns might fall into enemy hands enabling them to crack 'the code' and use it for propaganda purposes is a stretch. It assumes that an enemy that favors guerrilla tactics will capture one of the guns, that he who seized the weapon can read English and then recognize a cryptic reference to a bible passage. To make my point, I invite you to, without the benefit of google or other resources available to the average wilderness dwelling Islamic radical combatant, translate this common Arabic phrase: صباح الخير

I understand that some have an ACLUish instinct to shine light on anything and everything while letting the chips fall as they may.

My opinion is that this sort of expose is self serving on the USA Today's part (or whoever ran with the original story). The bottom line is that it does nothing but give hate fodder to desperate brains that can be swayed to inflict harm on our troops. Period. Oh sure, now we know that there is a tiny etching of a biblical verse on some gun components (I would have mistaken them for serial numbers or some such had I had one in my possession). But at what cost? The etching will cease and kits are being made available to eliminate those that are in circulation...but the public relations cost of this sort of "we're American and have a free press and have a right to know" report is tremendous. Had the proper parties been notified prior to the story being run, most likely the same corrective outcome would have been realized.

I might point out that I am not alone in my line of thinking. I seem to remember outrage on the part of a few "we need to see it all no matter what" types when Obama's White House nixed the release of prisoner photos that no doubt would have damaged our efforts and further endangered our countrymen trying to stabilize a part of the world that for better or worse we find ourselves in. As the President put it, "In fact, the most direct consequence of releasing them would be to further inflame anti-American opinion, and to put our troops in greater danger." It seems to me that running the story on the weapons is analogously harmful, pointless and short sighted. The whole photo story is here: Obama reverses course on alleged prison abuse photos - CNN.com

By the way, the idea that one of these guns might fall into enemy hands enabling them to crack 'the code' and use it for propaganda purposes is a stretch. It assumes that an enemy that favors guerrilla tactics will capture one of the guns, that he who seized the weapon can read English and then recognize a cryptic reference to a bible passage. To make my point, I invite you to, without the benefit of google or other resources available to the average wilderness dwelling Islamic radical combatant, translate this common Arabic phrase: صباح الخير

I agree we don't need to see it all and the photos are a good example. Our government admitted they existed, they were horrific, and it was not conduct condoned by our leadership. We let the world know it was not standard operating procedure for our military and those responsible were to be held accountable. No need to further inflame the anti-American opinion.

You may be right about the enemy not being able to read english but don't you think the military plays out all the "what ifs"? Maybe they decided it would be prudent to ackowledge the sights exist and did not approve of them and were taking action rather than trying to deal with a PR nightmare in the future.

I cannot translate the Arabic because I'm a wilderness dwelling American.

I understand that some have an ACLUish instinct to shine light on anything and everything while letting the chips fall as they may.

My opinion is that this sort of expose is self serving on the USA Today's part (or whoever ran with the original story). The bottom line is that it does nothing but give hate fodder to desperate brains that can be swayed to inflict harm on our troops. Period. Oh sure, now we know that there is a tiny etching of a biblical verse on some gun components (I would have mistaken them for serial numbers or some such had I had one in my possession). But at what cost? The etching will cease and kits are being made available to eliminate those that are in circulation...but the public relations cost of this sort of "we're American and have a free press and have a right to know" report is tremendous. Had the proper parties been notified prior to the story being run, most likely the same corrective outcome would have been realized.

I might point out that I am not alone in my line of thinking. I seem to remember outrage on the part of a few "we need to see it all no matter what" types when Obama's White House nixed the release of prisoner photos that no doubt would have damaged our efforts and further endangered our countrymen trying to stabilize a part of the world that for better or worse we find ourselves in. As the President put it, "In fact, the most direct consequence of releasing them would be to further inflame anti-American opinion, and to put our troops in greater danger." It seems to me that running the story on the weapons is analogously harmful, pointless and short sighted. The whole photo story is here: Obama reverses course on alleged prison abuse photos - CNN.com

By the way, the idea that one of these guns might fall into enemy hands enabling them to crack 'the code' and use it for propaganda purposes is a stretch. It assumes that an enemy that favors guerrilla tactics will capture one of the guns, that he who seized the weapon can read English and then recognize a cryptic reference to a bible passage. To make my point, I invite you to, without the benefit of google or other resources available to the average wilderness dwelling Islamic radical combatant, translate this common Arabic phrase: صباح الخير

When it comes to national security, I agree that I wish the national press could display some prudence in reporting, but that is a slippery slope and how and who judges what is withheld?

I disagree though with the idea that they are at fault (ABC)
It wasn't the manufacture, who was aware of what they were printing on weapons and WHO they were selling them to, it wasn't the government for purchasing tons of these devices and not having a rider in their contract about religious messaging on federally purchased items, but the news for actually doing their job

All of the reports I have read from ABC on this issue, including the first were very balanced pieces(imho) and good reporting. I just don't agree with killing the messenger.

Soldiers have the ability to have many religious items (of their choosing) on their person. I totally agree with that and have religious jewelry that has been to many places in that area, even if I haven't.

My understanding is some soldiers complained and that's how(as most often it happens) the story broke.

If the gov knew about it, they should have given the soldiers a choice when they were issued and phase down the production.

I also have to wonder why this verse? I think the manufacture is most whack here. And, I totally believe that he has the right to put whatever he wants on his product, but my Ezekiel bread and Dr. Bonners soap are happy, healthy products. If you are gonna put verse on a killing scope, go for hardcore, like Judges 15:15-16.

When it comes to national security, I agree that I wish the national press could display some prudence in reporting, but that is a slippery slope and how and who judges what is withheld?

I disagree though with the idea that they are at fault (ABC)
It wasn't the manufacture, who was aware of what they were printing on weapons and WHO they were selling them to, it wasn't the government for purchasing tons of these devices and not having a rider in their contract about religious messaging on federally purchased items, but the news for actually doing their job

All of the reports I have read from ABC on this issue, including the first were very balanced pieces(imho) and good reporting. I just don't agree with killing the messenger.

Soldiers have the ability to have many religious items (of their choosing) on their person. I totally agree with that and have religious jewelry that has been to many places in that area, even if I haven't.

My understanding is some soldiers complained and that's how(as most often it happens) the story broke.

If the gov knew about it, they should have given the soldiers a choice when they were issued and phase down the production.

I also have to wonder why this verse? I think the manufacture is most whack here. And, I totally believe that he has the right to put whatever he wants on his product, but my Ezekiel bread and Dr. Bonners soap are happy, healthy products. If you are gonna put verse on a killing scope, go for hardcore, like Judges 15:15-16.

A-you bring an interesting perspective to this discussion given your profession. I guess this case brings up the topic of journalism ethics.

I don't think there is much debate about the inappropriate placement of biblical reference on weapon components purchased by the military. As I understand it, the soldiers concerned about this were concerned regarding the ramifications of 'complaining', thus someone in 'the media' was contacted. We all know the power of the pen can be mighty, and I have to wonder if there was any attempt to go straight to Petreus (who grants interviews liberally) and let him know about the situation off the record instead of releasing the story for international consumption. While I am unaware of specific precedent, I have got to believe that there have been such episodes in the past.

Listening to reports on our military efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq it is clear that significant effort is placed on cultural sensitivity training and fighting radical Islamic propaganda regarding Western anti-Islamic intent. That is why I find it so troubling that (apparently) no effort was made by the media to rectify the matter quietly instead of broadcasting the story. Given our apparent strategy in allaying fears of Western anti-Islamic intent, running with this story almost seems analogous to broadcasting troop numbers, movements, etc to an enemy state in a more traditional war.

When it comes to national security, I agree that I wish the national press could display some prudence in reporting, but that is a slippery slope and how and who judges what is withheld?

I disagree though with the idea that they are at fault (ABC)
It wasn't the manufacture, who was aware of what they were printing on weapons and WHO they were selling them to, it wasn't the government for purchasing tons of these devices and not having a rider in their contract about religious messaging on federally purchased items, but the news for actually doing their job

All of the reports I have read from ABC on this issue, including the first were very balanced pieces(imho) and good reporting. I just don't agree with killing the messenger.

Soldiers have the ability to have many religious items (of their choosing) on their person. I totally agree with that and have religious jewelry that has been to many places in that area, even if I haven't.

My understanding is some soldiers complained and that's how(as most often it happens) the story broke.

If the gov knew about it, they should have given the soldiers a choice when they were issued and phase down the production.

I also have to wonder why this verse? I think the manufacture is most whack here. And, I totally believe that he has the right to put whatever he wants on his product, but my Ezekiel bread and Dr. Bonners soap are happy, healthy products. If you are gonna put verse on a killing scope, go for hardcore, like Judges 15:15-16.

aleo - as usual you bring a lot of good sense and good balance to the discussion. thanks.

I think its a good thing it came out publicly and will be resolved for good. I don't think it needed to be blown into this huge horrific thing - unless there is some holy crap cover up. and I doubt it. but you never know.