Army Suicide Toll

[scooterbug44]

Can I break up the self-righteous lovefest to have a discussion about the actual thread topic?

I think the fact that our military personnel's rate of suicide is greatly increasing is a matter of concern.

Yes, I know what historic and current deployment times are (it's my high school and college classmates and friends' husbands and dating pool and our younger siblings fighting these wars) and I think that they suck, are anti-family, and should be changed.......................it's called progress and is doable IMO.

We also need to step up on providing better mental health care for our troops.

 

[Iris]

Sorry thought you were coming back with the facts? If that were the case you would know that Korea and Thailand were both support countries to Viet Nam. Also I served in two branches of the Armed forces, I will also further explain I am old but not that old to serve in the two conflicts. I served in Viet Nam. Spent time in Thailand Korea and the Philippines as well as Japan. Now hopefully you can help me with these facts?

And somewhere while doing this, what does my service to our country have to do with your facts?

Jack

My original post in quotations below:

"The Army has strict rules on deployment timelines. If they past the normal 12 month deployment (some exceptions have been approved for 15 months) all of the top ranking officials have to get together for a (POW WOW and get approval for the longer deployments. Then there is the rule of the dwell time. It is to be the length of the deployment. If dwell time is broken another pow wow and another approval process. The main issue of these exceptions to policy are for the combat engineers, medical, military intelligence, and military pollice. The high demand/low density specialist. Not the infantryman. There are plenty of them.

The high demand/low density guys are hard to find, they have to have exceptional apptitudes and lots of civilian and military training. Look how long it takes a nurse to get trained. A linguist is another story especially in the Arabic and Farsi languages, then the dialects of each. And then there is the fact that if one of these highly skilled individuals happens to admit being gay they are dismissed after the military has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to get them to the levels of expertise needed. They get kicked out and come back as contractors and the governments pays them sometimes 2 to 3 to 5 times what they were making as soldiers.

So it is not as easy as raise the force structure levels and our problems are solved.

I know of no one getting a bonus for staying deployed. Army units deploy as units and come home as units. Individuals deploy as augmentees normaly to a staff level position for 6 to 12 months and normally in the less dangerous locaitons. Soldiers are getting bonuses for enlisted in specific specialties and for reenlisting.

Contractors can stay for as long as they like and up to about 90K is tax free per year. May be a little higher or lower. The soldiers pay is tax free also, the officer's is to the level of the highest enlisted soldiers pay. The civil servant that volunteers to be deployed receives no extra benefits, ie tax break.

Air Force, Navy, and Marine deployments are six months. Not 12 to 15 or so. Therefore you hear of more problems in the Army.

And yes, we should pull out now and get those countries to pay us back the billions of dollars that we have wasted over there and put it into protecting ourselves on our own homeland......something called HOMELAND DEFENSE...HOMELAND PROTECTION.....HOMELAND SECURITY."


Jack, what do you not believe is a fact, Other than my last paragraph above, which is a personal comment versus a fact?

You seem to have so much time on your hands and believe you are correct about everything because you served during the Vietnam era, please re read and tell me what is not a fact. I don't just spout to spout unless it is annotated as a personal view ie my last paragraph of my original post.

I did not have to come back with facts. My comments were facts in my original post, like I said except last para!

 

[Iris]

Can I break up the self-righteous lovefest to have a discussion about the actual thread topic?

I think the fact that our military personnel's rate of suicide is greatly increasing is a matter of concern.

Yes, I know what historic and current deployment times are (it's my high school and college classmates and friends' husbands and dating pool and our younger siblings fighting these wars) and I think that they suck, are anti-family, and should be changed.......................it's called progress and is doable IMO.

We also need to step up on providing better mental health care for our troops.

Thanks Scooter,

Sorry for my venting.

Jack just doesn't read through or maybe he doesn't comprehend what he reads. You did understand and I agree with everything you said in your post.

We can add a segment to your post and that is divorce levels. It is also at a extraordinary high level (and Jack I do not have the exact numbers). Just know that studies are showing it.

I feel for the young families of our soldiers and the extended families, the friends of the families, and all that are touched by our soldiers. And with soldiers, I include all ranks of all that serve.

Thanks again Scooter.

 

[Beanstalk]

My original post in quotations below:

"The Army has strict rules on deployment timelines. If they past the normal 12 month deployment (some exceptions have been approved for 15 months) all of the top ranking officials have to get together for a (POW WOW and get approval for the longer deployments. Then there is the rule of the dwell time. It is to be the length of the deployment. If dwell time is broken another pow wow and another approval process. The main issue of these exceptions to policy are for the combat engineers, medical, military intelligence, and military pollice. The high demand/low density specialist. Not the infantryman. There are plenty of them.

The high demand/low density guys are hard to find, they have to have exceptional apptitudes and lots of civilian and military training. Look how long it takes a nurse to get trained. A linguist is another story especially in the Arabic and Farsi languages, then the dialects of each. And then there is the fact that if one of these highly skilled individuals happens to admit being gay they are dismissed after the military has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to get them to the levels of expertise needed. They get kicked out and come back as contractors and the governments pays them sometimes 2 to 3 to 5 times what they were making as soldiers.

So it is not as easy as raise the force structure levels and our problems are solved.

I know of no one getting a bonus for staying deployed. Army units deploy as units and come home as units. Individuals deploy as augmentees normaly to a staff level position for 6 to 12 months and normally in the less dangerous locaitons. Soldiers are getting bonuses for enlisted in specific specialties and for reenlisting.

Contractors can stay for as long as they like and up to about 90K is tax free per year. May be a little higher or lower. The soldiers pay is tax free also, the officer's is to the level of the highest enlisted soldiers pay. The civil servant that volunteers to be deployed receives no extra benefits, ie tax break.

Air Force, Navy, and Marine deployments are six months. Not 12 to 15 or so. Therefore you hear of more problems in the Army.

And yes, we should pull out now and get those countries to pay us back the billions of dollars that we have wasted over there and put it into protecting ourselves on our own homeland......something called HOMELAND DEFENSE...HOMELAND PROTECTION.....HOMELAND SECURITY."


Jack, what do you not believe is a fact, Other than my last paragraph above, which is a personal comment versus a fact?

You seem to have so much time on your hands and believe you are correct about everything because you served during the Vietnam era, please re read and tell me what is not a fact. I don't just spout to spout unless it is annotated as a personal view ie my last paragraph of my original post.

I did not have to come back with facts. My comments were facts in my original post, like I said except last para!

Iris, your the one who stated this..."I will explain later where I get my facts. Just don't have any time to waste right now. "

I do not think I disputed anything you said. I was just waiting to see where you "GET" your facts. I just explained where I get mine.

I also agree, this thread is not about me. So what is the answer? One that is obtainable. Not a wish list. Just saying...

Jack

 

[Beanstalk]

Thanks Scooter,

Sorry for my venting.

Jack just doesn't read through or maybe he doesn't comprehend what he reads. You did understand and I agree with everything you said in your post.

We can add a segment to your post and that is divorce levels. It is also at a extraordinary high level (and Jack I do not have the exact numbers). Just know that studies are showing it.

I feel for the young families of our soldiers and the extended families, the friends of the families, and all that are touched by our soldiers. And with soldiers, I include all ranks of all that serve.

Thanks again Scooter.

Agreed!

 

[Beanstalk]

Can I break up the self-righteous lovefest to have a discussion about the actual thread topic?

I think the fact that our military personnel's rate of suicide is greatly increasing is a matter of concern.

Yes, I know what historic and current deployment times are (it's my high school and college classmates and friends' husbands and dating pool and our younger siblings fighting these wars) and I think that they suck, are anti-family, and should be changed.......................it's called progress and is doable IMO.

We also need to step up on providing better mental health care for our troops.

I fully agree with your statement. Now where can we find the support to move forward on these problems other from "Venting" here in a forum?

Jack

 

[Iris]

Iris, your the one who stated this..."I will explain later where I get my facts. Just don't have any time to waste right now. "

I do not think I disputed anything you said. I was just waiting to see where you "GET" your facts. I just explained where I get mine.

I also agree, this thread is not about me. So what is the answer? One that is obtainable. Not a wish list. Just saying...

Jack

Iris, your the one who stated this..."I will explain later where I get my facts. Just don't have any time to waste right now. "

You must be a really unhappy or angry person having to highlight. I just needed to go shuck some oysters for dinner. Family, food, and good will are worth more of my time.

I must start that I can't be too specific, state any oplans, any future force structure initiatives, or so because I have signed nondisclosure agreements. Am now retired (recently within 12 months) will not pretend that I am up to date, only what I have read in unclassified publications that I currently recieve. Therefore go back and read my original post where I believe I am pretty right on.

As for my background. I have been around wearing the green uniform since 1974 when it wasn't really fun (and no I did not go to VN) to '82 with Grenada, '89 Panama, '90/91 Desert Shield/Storm, Bosnia/Kosovo 95/96/97/97/98/99/00/01 etc. to 2001/02........ OEF, etc, and 03/04 etc for OIF. I hung it up last year.

I worked with deployments, redeployments, etc, dwell times, breaking dwell times and the exception to policies associatied with them. I worked with the HQDA teams and the POW WOWs, I worked with recruiting programs trying to get more of the high demand/ low density/highly skilled soldiers into to the Army. Someof which I knew that were to be recruited, enlisted, promised things, and knew were going to die. I DO NOT FEEL GOOD ABOUT THIS.......AND YES I AM ANGRY about this portion.

I worked with the USAR and the ARNG. I worked with the contacting aspect of the military, the force structure aspect.

I am now completely reitred. Loving living in SOWAL where I have been a partime resident for 15 years, a full time resident for about 1 year, and wanting to enjoy it.

I am not a democrat, used to be a republican, and can't label myself today. I will not blame Obama nor Bush for our current economic problems. There were a lot of greedy people invovled with this one and most of us saw it coming 5 to 6 years ago. But that is another story.

I just want to enjoy good ole SOWAL life. Eat fresh food, protect a wonderful area. Help those down here that might need an ear. And give my best opinion from what I just experience for over 30 years.

And I do love my government health care. It is excellent as your sons . Don't know if you are retired from the government and have the same opportunities, but hope you do. I talk with all of my reitree friends and we hope that what we pay (I pay about $100 a month for primo care others pay about $250 per year and $5 co pays) that we can offer other people that need health care something reasonable. Maybe $250 per month. I have friends that are self employeed that pay $500 to $1000 per month per family. And don't receive good care.

Take that one on Jack.

Sorry Scooter. Had to rant about something else. Jack got me started. I do agree with you most of all.

Our poor soldiers and their families.

PS. For all of you comma mammas, I am not going through and correcting all of my typos and grammatical errors! So I will not respond to your rants! I love all of you. Just don't have the patience!

 

[Iris]

I fully agree with your statement. Now where can we find the support to move forward on these problems other from "Venting" here in a forum?

Jack

I was venting and not looking at posts while I vented. You now have my background and realize I am very frustrated with the whole political system. There is no way for us to correct the current military problems. They are fact exactly like VN. We said it prior to the first deployment of drop of the b. We all knew. Wish we weren't correct. GEN S (can''t spell his name or say it/head of the VA now) was correct. Along with a vast majority of generals that got fired for not backing Rumsfelt. My favorite was Johnny Riggs, who I had the honor of escourting a few times.

 

[poppy]

pull out now and get them to pay us back? if it were that easy....

what is with the left and surrendering when things get tough? do we really need a scar like vietnam? are you prepared to swallow the rep our nation will get after pulling out? are you willing to accept the fallen in vein? are you willing to accept the fact that terrorists worldwide will be emboldened by our retreat? are any of these something you consider or is just waving the white flag the easiest solution to comprehend?

your echoing what the opposition to the surge in iraq said and look what the surge accomplished. the military can win this war, but not with liberal politicians playing politics with their lives. you fight to win-period. and thats not just with bombs either. right now they are all sitting ducks waiting for the attorney and chief to make up his attorney mindset up.

If it were that easy. the world would crumble because we keep the peace around the globe with our military. most havent a clue on how many places we're stationed to keep the peace and provide aid.

There is an excellent opinion piece by Fraser Sherman in todays NWF Daily News directed at people just like you, please read it. I would provide the link (knowing how lazy you are at researching an opposing view) but it wasn't on the web at this posting.

 

[poppy]

I know of no one getting a bonus for staying deployed. Army units deploy as units and come home as units. Individuals deploy as augmentees normaly to a staff level position for 6 to 12 months and normally in the less dangerous locaitons. Soldiers are getting bonuses for enlisted in specific specialties and for reenlisting.

I have no idea how bonuses work in 2009, but if this were the late 60's or early 70's this is a true statement. The men in my unit in VN who re-enlisted with a bonus did so in country in order to have the entire bonus free from taxes. The bonus was tied to their occupational specialty, not their deployment.