Automotive bailout- will it be a Big 3 Christmas present?

[scooterbug44]

I really want the Big 3 to file for bankruptcy/reorganize rather than getting a handout - especially since the need for a bailout is because their business model doesn't work and everyone wants a bailout now.

Yes, because they are so big there will be a major economic effect if they fail, but I think we are only delaying that by "bailing them out" instead of making them change their ways.

IMO it's tough love time for the big 3.

 

[Bobskunk]

Do we need them

It seems that most people here are in favor of reorganization rather than throwing money into a black hole. Unfortunately, there are those such as Barney Frank who are absolutley depsperate to preserve the unions in their present form, which would mean eternal subsidies. I agree with most of you.

I do wonder if making cars is that important to us. We don't seem to do it too well, and we can always import them. Plus, many "foreign" cars are made here anyway. It seems that if we channeled this money into something that we do well, it may be more productive to sell those other items around the world. Our manufaturing economy is not that bad. It seems that the only industries that get our resources are the bad ones.

In addition to the unions having bought a lot of politicians, there is also a bit of gratitude to the auto industry for the role that they played in World War II. I have heard some say that we need the industry in case we find ourselves in that situation again. In truth, it is highly unlikely that future wars will be fought with conventional infantry and equipment, as weapons are much more effective and devastating.

 

[BeachSiO2]

I believe it is all window dressing. Pelosi, for her part, is preoccupied with Nobel Krugman's public works program and her own stimulus package. Much bigger price tags which demand the Speaker's attention, cough cough. Labor is a huge constituent of the Dems and they are not going to turn their backs on the UAW. Neither will the Pubs in union states and districts IMHO.

Politics is window dressing for sure. I believe the more likely approach will be to take the existing $25 billion from the alternative energy loans and "modify" it into something that can be used instead of a brand new "loan," but it is still early.

 

[scooterbug44]

I don't think that making cars in the US is a failing proposition, I think making cars with the current mindset and management the Big 3 have is a failing proposition. The UAW certainly hasn't helped, but you can't blame them - other automakers have to deal with them too and aren't asking for a bailout.

I drive a vehicle made by the big 3, my mother drives a car made by the big 3, my father drives an SUV made by the big 3, my brother drives my father's old SUV made by the big 3.

It's not that people don't like their vehicles, it's that the big 3 have made certain decisions and mismanaged their finances and now those decisions are coming back to bite them in the arse! The cars coming out of the factory work - it's the private jets, the bonuses when the company is losing money, the $17 million a year on Viagra, the decision to keep focusing on SUVs when they know an oil shortage or high gas prices would severely hurt them etc.

 

[30ashopper]

All three should land in bankruptcy so the legacy contracts can be flushed down the toilet. Younger, existing workers need to have pensions replaced with retirement investment accounts and health benefits needs to be brought in line with existing business standards. (Older workers and retirees unfortunately will need a bailout or they will end up on the street, or working at Wal-Mart, the government could allocate some tax dollars to the UAW for this.) Washington also needs to get involved by dumping CAFE standards which force the big three to produce cars at a loss here in the states. If Washington wants to motivate people to buy small cars, they should tax gas, not regulate industry to produce cars nobody wants. The UAW also needs to be downsized and stripped of much of it's 1920's style fisted power - it's about time we had a major overhaul of laws that pertain to Unions. These organizations should not be able to pull workers off the line without consequences.

Everyone involved in this mess is responsible. Every policy and law put in place is a failure. We have this new administration coming in that continually talks of "change", I have to wonder if that includes change as it pertains to all the laws and regulations and approaches we've applied to this over the years that have completey failed. I'm not holding my breath, my guess is "change" will be applied selectively to non-core democratic special interests. If that happens we all lose bacause these problems will come back to haunt us again and again and again down the road.

 

[Bob]

Shelby (R-AL) is not surprisingly voicing his concerns on the bailout..

Sen. Richard Shelby (Ala.), the top Republican on the Banking Committee, said Friday that the auto industry executives asking Congress for money this week were ?arrogant.?


?They seem to be three of the most arrogant, you know, non-repentant people I've ever seen to be running three losing companies,? Shelby said on MSNBC.

He added that he would make the firing of management a precondition for any federal auto industry bailout.

?They?ve failed in running these companies. They?ve burned hundreds of billions of dollars if you tie it all together,? he said, adding, ?I believe one of them made $28 million last year. I'd be ashamed of that.?

The senator opposes giving the auto industry more money and also was one of the most vocal opponents of a $700 billion bailout of the financial industry. Asked how Congress passed such a massive bill without much oversight or guidance, Shelby argued that it was ?near election time.?

?People panicked. They didn?t understand how complicated it was or how uncomplicated it was,? he stated. ?They gave the secretary of the Treasury more power than [a] Treasury secretary has ever had, and look what?s happened. He hasn?t done much with it.?

shelby likes to make it up on the fly...ford's ceo, for one has been in the seat since '06, and has been very proactive in prearranging credit lines and selling assets for the challenges ahead...wagoner/nardelli are both highly flushable. would that the government been so meticulous in the way it threw money at wall street. congress is showboating

 

[Bob]

before everyone wrings their hands blue, look at toyota, honda's numbers.....way, way off

 

[BeachSiO2]

As expected, it is being reported that the bailout compromise will come from the $25 billion already available for alternative technologies instead of new money. With Pelosi's backing it looks like this will be the plan brought to a vote and further clarifies why she has been in the background during the discussions. She knew that new money wouldn't fly and didn't want to upset the greenies in the Dem party until she had too. The jobs report gave her the political cover that was necessary to support the change.

"Today?s announcement of major job losses and findings from Congressional hearings from the last two days make it clear that Congress must work on a bipartisan basis to provide short-term and limited assistance to the automobile industry while it undertakes major restructuring,? said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) in a statement.

 

[hnooe]

Why don't the big oil companies just forgo their profits for just one quarter and just give it to the Big 3--that would intregally pair two co-dependant corporate junkies.

 

[Smiling JOe]

Nothing to see here. Keep the line moving. There is football to watch and beer to drink. Just let the politicians keep steeling money from our great-grandchildren. What is more important than quickly handing out the $750 Billion to stimulate the economy? Congress doing it so that they can get out for their Christmas Break.