• Trouble logging in? Send us a message with your username and/or email address for help.
New posts

Cork On the Ocean

directionally challenged
cork - I've got some resources for you to read. we should get together soon.

regarding your comment about getting through menopause. let me explain better my own endeavor. its not about symptoms. its about all that I'm hearing and learning about the hormone loss that takes place during and after menopause. the symptoms are not the problem. its the disease and aging that accelerates with the decline in hormones a woman experiences starting before mienopause. I'm even starting to see information about how american women have far more decline in hormone levels, far earlier than other women in the world because of our environment, lifestyle, diet, etc. replacement is becoming very popular among men and women to regain energy and maintain health for much longer, enjoying a healthier old age. at least that is the idea. I'm not the expert. yet.

Would love to see your resources. My biggest concern with taking something that the body makes is that the way the body works is that there is a "feedback" system and this how your body manufactures it's chemicals - endorphins etc. When a substance that is made in the body and supplemented with "external" sources, the substance fits in the human receptors and the body sees the levels and says "whoa, we have enough - stop making it!". Then your body shuts down it's own production. This is why 'withdrawals" occur in drug addicts who quit. When they quit, their body has none of it's own pain killers (IE) being produced and they experience all of the effects of low endorphin levels - pain, diarrhea etc. It takes several days after the withdrawal for the body to begin production again. If there is sustained suppression of internal chemicals, the question then is, has the body said, "screw it, I never have to make anymore" and the production mechanism basically stops due to inactivity like a machine that hasn't been used.

That's is probably my biggest concern. Are these BHRT's fitting into the human receptors and shutting down your own production. Going to eat. Will do more work later. Kisses
 
Last edited:

Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,683
9,476
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
the BHRT or NHRT's are the same. and many women are having this done as an alternative to HRT becaue with BHRT the doctor does a thorough analysis of your hormone levels and prescribes the amounts of estrogens and progesteran (and maybe testosterone) needed. your levels are continually checked and the hormones are tweaked until the correct levels are reached to have your body in balance, etc. it isn't a quick fix like HRT. certainly isn't a one size fits all, like HRT. the only hormones you have replaced are the ones your body has virtually stopped making (or marked decrease in production). and you only replace hormones to the levels needed. you surely would not supplement your body with hormones just for the hell of it. it is a REPLACEMENT therapy, ya know? there is much material on it now, and its not new. While it makes complete sense to me on the surface, and I am very interested based on comments from several sources and friends, I am interested in finding out about any studies on this subject. there are many sources out there for info, and much has been recommended by good folks on this thread!! thanks!!



Would love to see your resources. My biggest concern with taking something that the body makes is that the way the body works is that there is a "feedback" system and this how your body manufactures it's chemicals - endorphins etc. When a substance that is made in the body and supplemented with "external" sources, the substance fits in the human receptors and the body sees the levels and says "whoa, we have enough - stop making it!". Then your body shuts down it's own production. This is why 'withdrawals" occur in drug addicts who quit. When they quit, their body has none of it's own pain killers (IE) being produced and they experience all of the effects of low endorphin levels - pain, diarrhea etc. It takes several days after the withdrawal for the body to begin production again. If there is sustained suppression of internal chemicals, the question then is, has the body said, "screw it, I never have to make anymore" and the production mechanism basically stops due to inactivity like a machine that hasn't been used.

That's is probably my biggest concern. Are these BHRT's fitting into the human receptors and shutting down your own production. Going to eat. Will do more work later. Kisses
 
Last edited:

Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,683
9,476
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
One other benefit of the natural hormones, in case anybody is considering them, is that they can significantly reduce your risk for osteoporosis. When I first started having menopausal symptoms my doctor sent me for a bone density scan. It came back that I already had mild osteopenia which meant that I was already losing bone mass due to the diminishing hormones. One year after having been on hormones I went for another bone density scan and it was completely normal.

I am re-reading this thread to make a list of books, doctors, and resources you all have recommended so far. if anyone has anything to add, please do so here or PM to me.

Margarita, I wanted to say that I've heard that bone health is a benefit of hormone replacement. do you take anything else to help maintain bone health? or do you attribute your improved density to hormones? I am so interested in these details. and also confused.

IF HRT helps with bone health (and other important things such as heart, brain, anti-cancer, etc). then why in the world would any woman not be placed immediately on HRT when needed in her mid to later life? this is a question for the professionals, but thought I would throw it out anyway.
 

Cork On the Ocean

directionally challenged
IF HRT helps with bone health (and other important things such as heart, brain, anti-cancer, etc). then why in the world would any woman not be placed immediately on HRT when needed in her mid to later life? this is a question for the professionals, but thought I would throw it out anyway.

in 1987, The Women's Health Initiative conducted a study with over 16,000 post menopausal women. The study looked at HRT which and the risks of cardiovascular diseases, bone fractures and breast cancers.

The study was abruptly discontinued 3 years early because the researchers felt that the incidences of breast cancer were above a predetermined number and that the benefits of the study did not outweigh the risks.

http://www.cwhn.ca/resources/menopause/hrt-glance.html

HRT used to be the treatment of choice and many women were placed on it prophylactically at menopause. The WHI institute study changed that. At this point, the BHRT claims began to surace.
 

Cork On the Ocean

directionally challenged
Regarding BHRT vs HRT therapy, I've pulled up some information that I hope any woman considering their use will look at.

As I said in my earlier post, the body treats a chemical the same regardless of the derivation. The National Institute of Health, the Endocrine Society, U of Alabama Dept of OBG, The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecologists and many other health care organizations and professionals have determined that the risks associated with the BHRT is the same as the risks associated with HRT (including increased risk of cancer and stroke) . Also it should be stated that 3 of the doctors that Suzanne Summers quotes in her book have come out against her book warning people that she is making unfounded claims that may be harmful.

Secondly, these so-called medical professionals purport to titrate the hormones based on levels found in your saliva. The fact is that saliva is a very poor measurement of hormones for a variety of reasons including one's diet and the time of day. Even blood levels are not indicative of tissue levels so the mere concept of titration of hormones is faulty. This throws up red flags for me.

I understand the desperation that many woman feel at menopause and beyond. None of us want to get old but I hope that women considering BHRT will read the information that medical experts with no vested interest have published as well as the information from those with a vested interest in selling the stuff.

NIH - National Institute of Health
The Endocrine Society
Pharmwatch - by Dr Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch.com, a non-profit organization that aims to "combat health-related frauds with a primary focus on providing "quackery-related information that is difficult or impossible to get elsewhere."
American college of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
Prescription Access Litigation- A Consumers Group
Medscape Pharmacists
Clinical News on Diabetes and Endocrine Disorders
FDA News Release
FDA Center for Drug Evaluation and Research

If you are certain that you want to try them, the University of Kansas is in Phase II Trials and are looking for patients right now.

In my opinion the risk of cancers and stroke are greater than the benefits of LONG term use of any type of HRT. This is not anecdotal or based on "testimony". It is based on the opinions of the best experts in the country, controlled studies and my own 20 years of education and experience.

For those that want to look further into staying young, there is a lot of scientific evidence that consistent exercise (I know, I hate it) has significant benefits to the body. For years, we have known that exercise decreases bone loss and there are ongoing studies that support that exercise also prevents estrogen loss. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/408896_2
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0522210936.htm

And one of my favorites from Harvard Medical School

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newswe...ather_Time.htm

My belief is that everything that we need to thrive is produced by the human body. It's just knowing how to stimulate it's production. I wish that I could say there was an easy fix but if something really works, there should be absolutely no problem with going through the process of proving that it works AND that it is safe on a long term basis. Historical nightmares such as thalidomide and sulfanilimide are how we have gotten to our present drug regulatory system . I was a person who believed in the rubrick about the FDA until I became educated about what it does, why and how it does it and how many people don't understand the dangers and sophistication of creating something intended for use as a drug before they try to make a profit on it.

There will always be people that swear by herbs, supplements, nutriceuticals, smart drugs and every other panacea du jour. I believe that there is a place for natural products. Unfortunately, the US has not conducted valid double blind studies on most of them. I have a rare book in Tampa that lists hundreds of chinese herbs and the clinical study results that have been conducted in China. They are much farther than the US in herbal medicine.

The National LIbrary of Health at NIH is a wonderful resource.
The NIH also has a branch called the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine. I urge anyone considering non-traditional therapy to look it up here. They have some excellent info on the Bioidenticals as well as the Black Cohosh that Toots talked about.

Hope this helps.
 

Teresa

SoWal Guide
Staff member
Nov 15, 2004
30,683
9,476
South Walton, FL
sowal.com
thanks cork. I must say that this thread is not about "desperate menopausal women" looking for a quick fix. quite the opposite. it is about thoughtful women sharing their personal experiences and knowledge. googling is great, but not exactly what is needed here.

I think we've established earlier in this thread that exercise and diet become even more critical at menopause than any other time in life. loss of hormone levels is a natural part of life for men and women. whether you and your doctor decide that you need to replace diminished hormone levels is purely a personal decision based on your own unique situation, body, health, etc.

the most important aspect of this discussion for women's health is choice. here is a quote from a leading expert in women's health, Dr. Christiane Northrup... she advocates that women need to take control of their own health, and she represents what many of us are trying to achieve by having this highly personal discussion...

Given a choice between bioidentical hormones or synthetic ones, Dr. Northrup quips that she would trust “the wisdom coming from Mother Nature’s millions of years of experimentation” over “the fifty years of biochemical wizardry from Father Pharmaceutical.” Whether or not a woman chooses to use hormone replacement therapy, bioidentical or synthetic, the important factor is choice—having the freedom to choose her own best health care alternative.
Christiane Northrup, M.D., obstetrician, is a visionary in women's health and wellness who is internationally known for her lectures and articles. As a practicing physician for over 20 years, Dr. Christiane Northrup is a leading proponent of medicine and healing that acknowledges the unity of the mind and the body as well as the powerful role of the human spirit in creating health.


several of you recommended dr. northrup's books. I've heard of her for years. looking forward to reading about her work. she is only one of many well known doctors who practice holistic medicine, and who have made a huge difference in medicine for women.

each woman must do her own work to find what best fits her life in this and many other categories of health. and that is the entire idea behind this thread. no scare tactics. there is not one way or one method to fit all. you are unique.

I know there are many other written works by leading doctors in the field. if you have one or more to share, please provide their name and book titles, or link to a well-known website. this will help us more than googled references to dozens of unknown authors and links. its hard to sort through these, and they become useless. thanks.
 
Last edited:

organicmama

Beach Fanatic
Jul 31, 2006
1,638
338
WNC
wncfarmtotable.org
I posted (or tried) to post a really long response last night & it didn't go through. In a bit, I will try to repost it, but I am not sure if I can get the whole gist of it together again. Just a second....
 

Rudyjohn

SoWal Insider
Feb 10, 2005
7,736
234
Chicago Area
thanks cork. I must say that this thread is not about "desperate menopausal women" looking for a quick fix. quite the opposite. it is about thoughtful women sharing their personal experiences and knowledge. googling is great, but not exactly what is needed here.

I think we've established earlier in this thread that exercise and diet become even more critical at menopause than any other time in life. loss of hormone levels is a natural part of life for men and women. whether you and your doctor decide that you need to replace diminished hormone levels is purely a personal decision based on your own unique situation, body, health, etc.

the most important aspect of this discussion for women's health is choice. here is a quote from a leading expert in women's health, Dr. Christiane Northrup... she advocates that women need to take control of their own health, and she represents what many of us are trying to achieve by having this highly personal discussion...

Christiane Northrup, M.D., obstetrician, is a visionary in women's health and wellness who is internationally known for her lectures and articles. As a practicing physician for over 20 years, Dr. Christiane Northrup is a leading proponent of medicine and healing that acknowledges the unity of the mind and the body as well as the powerful role of the human spirit in creating health.


several of you recommended dr. northrup's books. I've heard of her for years. looking forward to reading about her work. she is only one of many well known doctors who practice holistic medicine, and who have made a huge difference in medicine for women.

each woman must do her own work to find what best fits her life in this and many other categories of health. and that is the entire idea behind this thread. no scare tactics. there is not one way or one method to fit all. you are unique.

I know there are many other written works by leading doctors in the field. if you have one or more to share, please provide their name and book titles, or link to a well-known website. this will help us more than googled references to dozens of unknown authors and links. its hard to sort through these, and they become useless. thanks.

I haven't finished reading up on these Bioidentical for HRT yet but I have a good feeling that your first sentence says it all. My time for some type of treatment is lurking around the corner & I want to be as prepared and informed as I possibly can and not end up a desperate menopausal woman before it's too late.

There is no magic bullet. It will probably at best be a combination of holistic treatments along with allopathic. Together in a complementary combination.

There is much to learn and read here. Thanks to everyone for sharing what they've learned.
.
 

organicmama

Beach Fanatic
Jul 31, 2006
1,638
338
WNC
wncfarmtotable.org
I might be posting this in a number of responses, as I have a lot to say & I don't really want one issue confused with another.

Number one: Christian Northrup is incredible. Any woman's "library" should include "Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom," at least. I've had it since 1994 and continuously refer to it, as I grow up:D, which will never completely happen.

Number two: To lump everyone into a category that can be covered under one method of healing only is ludicrous. It is an incorrect to say that all people can be treated allopathically as it is to say that all people can be treated with hormones, herbs or another therapy.

For example, I do better on homeopathic remedies & more gentle therapies. I choose them over herbs, supplements & pharmaceuticals, but I usually work in that order if I need something other than a homeopathic. However, other people do better with another form of therapy. It should be their right to choose what therapy works best for them.

To say anything different is like telling women their only choice in childbirth is to have a Cesaerean, or (on the opposite end) that natural, homebirth is the only real way to have a child. That takes away the rights of the individual.

NOTE: I have went through childbirth with an epidural the first time, natural but hospital birth the second time and unassisted at home childbirth the last & final time. I was told that with the first child, there was a 50/50 chance I'd have to have a C-Section, so I learned to accept that as a viable option, if necessary. I am not better than anyone else, but I have also experienced childbirth in more than just one way and all of my children are healthy. It is a woman's right to have the type of birth that she desires and feels she can handle as a woman & a mother. The same goes for bottle feeding vs. breastfeeding, etc. Education is key, but what works for one woman/family does not work for another.

It really irritates me when a health care practitioner acts as if their way is the only way. As far as medical doctors & pharmacists are concerned (for the most part), they are taught that their way is the only way. It is supported by the pharmaceutical & insurance companies so that there is a lack of cross education about other forms of healing. I do not blame the MDs or the pharmacists for their stance, however, I do wish they would recognize in themselves the very one-sided nature of their education & views.

This happens on the natural health care side also. I just ran across one the other day, who was poo-pooing anything that he did not promote & was bad-mouthing an otherwise respectable MD. I did some checking, including his website & biography, made some calls and found out what his expertise was based on and what agenda was about. After that, I "ran like crazy" the other way.

What is not being promoted in this country is INTEGRATIVE medicine, where the best of all forms of healing could come together in balance. Where an MD would have the correct, unbiased information, instead of what was taught by a system that needs to keep the drug & insurance companies happy. Christian Northrup is one of those integrative MDs.

In choosing doctors for my family, we have alway sought out MDs that allow parents to educate themselves and are willing to think outside the box. That's why I don't go to a local pediatrician, but drive a really long way when we need to see one. For generic purposes, I do see a local integrative MD here for the kids when absolutely needed.

There are really safe supplement companies out there. Acting as if every supplement should be treated as if dangerous but that drugs are so well-tested is false. "Historical nightmares such as thalidomide and sulfanilimide" aren't so far in the past at all. Vioxx & other NSAIDs? Fen Phen? Anyone really look into the long term affects of overprescribed antibiotics? Why are their national ads warning people not to take antibiotics for every infection they have? (http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/hottopics/anti_resist.html) Anyone can & should go to www.fda.gov/medwatch & research the drugs and even sign up for their alerts. It's enlightening. The simple fact is that the consumer needs to educate herself regarding drugs & supplements equally. BOTH can be used SAFELY and EFFECTIVELY when the consumer is well-educated on the subject but both are DANGEROUS when used without any form of self-education.

The statement about ginseng and pregnant women.... If you look on the back of random supplement bottles, if there is a remote chance of any kind of reaction in a pregnant woman or with the fetus, the bottle will say, "If you are pregnant or nursing, please consult your healthcare provider before taking this product." And if there is a known reaction, it will say, "Do not use this product if you are pregnant or nursing." Again, consumers need to research & educate themselves, not expect anything & everything that they are told is safe to truly be safe.

I was talking with an MD last night about a drug and its effects on his patient. We were talking about the fact that one person's biological make-up is different from another person's, so one person will react differently to the exact same drug, that it's not an exact science. The same goes for supplements, herbs, hormones & homeopathy.

To each individual, responsibility for your health & healing is ultimately yours. Don't let anyone tell you any different.
 

organicmama

Beach Fanatic
Jul 31, 2006
1,638
338
WNC
wncfarmtotable.org
A really good resource for info on natural hormone therapy is www.torihudson.com and even searching through Bastyr's website at www.bastyr.edu. I just called the American Association of Naturapathic Medicine, after being on the phone with Emerita, one of the leading manufacturers of natural hormone replacement. They recommended the above websites.

Emerita used to have naturopaths that would assist consumers, including working with the MDs to find a viable, individual solution. I used them regarding one of our daughters and they didn't have an answer within their products, but directed me towards a prescription that I discussed with our pediatrician & he agreed it was the best answer at the time. Their support really aided me in unknown territory regarding hormones.

Personally, I am still nursing, so I don't take anything. I'm 35 & have PMS but that's about it.

There's a CNM in Pensacola that I am going to see very soon for well-woman check-ups. I have her name & number on a piece of paper in my files and can find it if anyone needs it. She was recommended by a direct-entry midwife when I inquired about check-ups.

My family has a history of "female" cancers, including breast, cervical & ovarian cancers. I don't consume soy anymore on any level past a condiment because I do not digest well and there are complications regarding breast cancer associated with it. It's too iffy for me.

I have to cut this short for the car-pool line, but this about covers it, anyway.
 
New posts


Shop SoWal Photos

Sign Up for SoWal Newsletter