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BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,289
375
Well it would appear mputnal might, just might, be seeing the light of day regarding the concept of compensation for a taking. Then he says, "Seriously what do you think the beach is worth?" My answer, EVERYTHING. Any other answer would be disingenuous.

The only reason we're having this discussion is because of the beach. The County wants to spend millions on legal fees to take private beachfront property for nothing with no compensation. Why? Because it's the beach. EVERYTHING in our local economy, rightly or wrongly, NOW depends on the beach. Local real estate and management companies depend on the beach. Restaurants depend on the beach. Beach vendors depend on the beach. TDC depends on the beach with their 4% (soon to be 5%) tax. The State of Florida depends on the beach with the added 6% (+ 1% to Walton) sales tax. Walton County Tax Assessor depends on the beach (increased tax collection via enhanced beachfront property values). Walmart and Publix depend on the beach. Hell, even SoWal.com depends on the beach. The list goes on and on and on.

BUT all of the above dependencies DO NOT LEGALLY JUSTIFY CUSTOMARY USE one bit, not even a smidgen. Remember the 4 benchmarks?

Dave, on the other hand, can't let go of the $400 quiet title nonsense even though he's been properly educated by folks here a lot smarter than me. Assuming his answer is sarcastic (I'm trying to give him the benefit) I would swear he's just trolling now trying to get a rise from people like myself. Dave can't/won't even answer a sincere simple question regarding compensation without terminating his post with yet another "Goodbye". In my very humble opinion, this is NOT the way that the Chairman of Florida Beaches for All should be representing the group and its other members.

Again, Dave can leverage his investments for more and more restaurants and net profit and continue to be a master maker and marketeer of more mai tais to the masses. And the more people, the merrier. But when little ole me just wants to be left alone with my little piece of legally recorded private property that we've owned LONG BEFORE all this customary use stuff came up OR to be compensated for our investment / risk, we're painted as ...... well you know. And I'm sick of it. I'm confident that I speak for at least 99% of the beachfront parcel owners who filed motions to intervene and probably a lot more of those who didn't file but are sitting on the sidelines. And that's a lot of good folks with a direct vested interest and not just an opinion.
 
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Tyler T

Beach Lover
Aug 24, 2010
114
39
RG, SV, etal, Not only are my instincts right about you being power brokers but now I a certain that you are not from around here at all. Why not prove me wrong? You can't! Your purpose is to keep the BPO's aligned and on board with the lawsuit. This thread had one purpose and it was never about the 30A legacy, community or anything else but that right to exclude. It was ALL about POWER!

RG, I agree with you about this being a Twilight Zone. When you stated that you were not affiliated with a political party then it confirmed to me that you are not who you say you are. Where are you from? What research did you do? Why do you fear community? Please prove me wrong because I wasted a lot of time trying to connect to your sense of community and sense of what makes us human (humanity)!

I now believe that most of the BPO's in sowal would probably prefer to address density, behavior and vending in a settlement. Exclusion is just not that important to people who listen to their conscience. People who care about their beach community know that what goes around comes around and that circle of life is more important than the principle of exclusion on this special and unique place we call the beach.

The power brokers have a mission. It has nothing to do with community. They are political agitators. If they were hired they should be fired because they are too obvious. Too uncompromising. Too much about ONE legal principle: exclusion. Nothing about the resource. It is all a big scam. They answer NO questions about conscience, humanity or identity. I call their method: artificial intelligence :)

I do try very hard to be fair and to not attack anyone personally. I admit that it is easier said than done. Whoever these power brokers are I probably would enjoy a beverage and conversation with them face to face. I do not think that I know everything and always willing to learn. I do not believe I have any power or right to judge anyone. Listen, If you believe that a Constitutional Right is divine inspiration then who am I to judge? All I know is that my instincts are telling me that these people are not who they say they are so listen to your conscience. I have seen a lot of smiles and heard a lot of laughter on the beach. It seems to be a unique place were we can heal from unfairness and hurt feelings. It is just common sense that this issue can end with a settlement that benefits everyone!
Excellent post. You did a good job of explaining in detail what most locals feel... We are being dumped on.
 

mputnal

Beach Fanatic
Nov 10, 2009
2,259
605
BMBV, Okay now I understand why the County had no choice except to take this to court. You might speak for the 99% but I hope not. I am not opposed to BFO's being fairly compensated for sharing the beach but this is the thing. Based on your own words it is not about fair and reasonable compensation but rather a desire to have what is called a "wind fall". You are the ultimate capitalist! This is the very reason why capitalism is failing The People. No Judge and Jury would ever agree to compensating you by the tune of "everything"! You and the power brokers keep misusing the word "taking". Legally it is NOT a taking because you still have "use" of the beach. It is more like an "easement" which is a sharing. After interacting with you and the power brokers I understand completely why the county had to spend money this money on a law suit because you want "everything"! It all comes down to money and power and you desire a lot of it. Compared to what The People are asking which is a simple sharing of the beach with you, it seems that you are the one who wants to take and take and take!!!

So you and the power brokers are a lot of noise to keep the BPO's in the lawsuit. It is hard not to get emotional from all the rantings from you and the power brokers. I generally don't take sides but I feel compelled now to become a CU activist. Thank you for helping me realize the inequity in your arguments!

Dave, I am ready to join up. Where do I sign?
 

Tyler T

Beach Lover
Aug 24, 2010
114
39
BMBV, Okay now I understand why the County had no choice except to take this to court. You might speak for the 99% but I hope not. I am not opposed to BFO's being fairly compensated for sharing the beach but this is the thing. Based on your own words it is not about fair and reasonable compensation but rather a desire to have what is called a "wind fall". You are the ultimate capitalist! This is the very reason why capitalism is failing The People. No Judge and Jury would ever agree to compensating you by the tune of "everything"! You and the power brokers keep misusing the word "taking". Legally it is NOT a taking because you still have "use" of the beach. It is more like an "easement" which is a sharing. After interacting with you and the power brokers I understand completely why the county had to spend money this money on a law suit because you want "everything"! It all comes down to money and power and you desire a lot of it. Compared to what The People are asking which is a simple sharing of the beach with you, it seems that you are the one who wants to take and take and take!!!

So you and the power brokers are a lot of noise to keep the BPO's in the lawsuit. It is hard not to get emotional from all the rantings from you and the power brokers. I generally don't take sides but I feel compelled now to become a CU activist. Thank you for helping me realize the inequity in your arguments!

Dave, I am ready to join up. Where do I sign?
BMBV has been on this forum for years. He is different from the legalese posters whose lives are consumed by the lawsuit. He has lived in a condo on the beach for quite awhile. He has a front row seat next to the Blue Mountain Access which has gotten very crowded in season and has very little "public" beach attached. He has a problem seeing any beauty in SoWal. He can't see past the umbrellas and tents to the amazing Gulf. (Personally I would move to a quiter place instead of fuming day and night.)

I like that he is always up front and has very specific grievances (although his vitriol for one community member in particular is tiresome) that stem from a time when things in his neighborhood were quiet. Now he is the ultimate example of "I was here first, go away" and "get off my lawn kid".
 

Reggie Gaskins

Beach Lover
Oct 4, 2018
153
259
58
Blue Mountain Beach
Eminent domain? Sure, $400 a parcel, that’s what it cost to quiet title. And again, there’s nothing epic about this thread RG. Same finite group of people posting and viewing over and over and over again. Not too much unlike #44Followers. Goodbye
Dave,
Don’t tell my wife it’s not epic, I’ve convinced her I have 60,000 followers. She thinks I’m hot again!

But DR, here’s what we can discuss. Back in the 70’s, the private beaches along 30A in Seagrove, Blue Mountain, Dune Allen, etc..., were all advertised and sold at the same standard real estate metric. I bought my first private beach property as advertised with that metric. Remember what it is? It is Dollars per linear foot of private beach waterline. Some of them actually referred to them as “Dune Sales”. I’ve heard that Mr Allen spoke of selling his “dunes by the foot”. In 1978, that was ~$300/linear foot of private beach. In 2004, a week before Ivan, real estate adds were published at $48,000/linear foot of private beach. After Ivan, Dennis, Katrina, Economic crash, and Horizon, in mid 2010, it was about $15,000/ft. Today, it seems to be ~ $40,000/linear feet of private beach waterline. You can’t deny that real estate was sold as such. You can’t just revise history to meet your narrative. Here’s the good news... you’re only off by two zeros! (Per foot)
 
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EZ4144

Beach Lover
Aug 6, 2005
194
107
Dave,
Don’t tell my wife it’s not epic, I’ve convinced her I have 60,000 followers. She thinks I’m hot again!

But DR, here’s what we can discuss. Back in the 70’s, the private beaches along 30A in Seagrove, Blue Mountain, Dune Allen, etc..., were all advertised and sold at the same standard real estate metric. I bought my first private beach property as advertised with that metric. Remember what it is? It is Dollars per linear foot of private beach waterline. Some of them actually referred to them as “Dune Sales”. I’ve heard that Mr Allen spoke of selling his “dunes by the foot”. In 1978, that was ~$300/linear foot of private beach. In 2004, a week before Ivan, real estate adds were published at $48,000/linear foot of private beach. After Ivan, Dennis, Katrina, Economic crash, and Horizon, in mid 2010, it was about $15,000/ft. Today, it seems to be ~ $40,000/linear feet of private beach waterline. You can’t deny that real estate was sold as such. You can’t just revise history to meet your narrative. Here’s the good news... you’re only off by two zeros! (Per foot)
Selling dunes and reducing the beach to dollars is very depressing to most of us.
Too bad beach dreams have turned nightmarish.
 

SUP View

Beach Comber
Jul 22, 2019
48
43
Above Water
You and the power brokers keep misusing the word "taking". Legally it is NOT a taking because you still have "use" of the beach. It is more like an "easement" which is a sharing.

Without capitalism, you wouldn't be in a position to post on this site.

And as noted previously, the WCC's and the county attorney have both told me personally that the property liability will still remain with the property owners if CU were implemented. I don't know of a location in the US were the liability of publicly used property is the responsibility of a private citizen for that property. Not really the "easement" you noted as local governments maintain the liability for those.

Still haven't heard any CU supporter agree that the county should have approached the BFO's for a discussion that could lead to a resolution. Particularly before wasting our tax money on legal action that could take years and not be ruled in their favor. It's not too late. AND again, the WCC's and TDC don't seem to be able to provide an accurate number of how many people the lack of public beach access affects. Why is that? One of the better statements made at a county meeting was directed at the WCC's and CU supporters - "you seem to be a solution looking for a problem".

I wonder about that also.
 

BlueMtnBeachVagrant

Beach Fanatic
Jun 20, 2005
1,289
375
Now he is the ultimate example of "I was here first, go away" and "get off my lawn kid".
Really discouraging that your comment is the only thing you can come up with regarding private property rights vs. CU.

I know it’s hard for CU people to visualize the thousands of respectable people who feel the exact way I do. But they are out there, no question. It’s easier to demonize an individual such as me and a few other BFOs who are vocal on SoWal than to attack Rosemary, Seaside, Watersound, Watercolor, Alys Beach and other “faceless” developments. But then you know that already. That’s why you do it.

And Reggie is still 100% correct that we’re losing our 30A legacy partly because of all the personal attacks on beach front owners from thinkers like you.

I do appreciate the other kind words however.
 

Tyler T

Beach Lover
Aug 24, 2010
114
39
Really discouraging that your comment is the only thing you can come up with regarding private property rights vs. CU.

I know it’s hard for CU people to visualize the thousands of respectable people who feel the exact way I do. But they are out there, no question. It’s easier to demonize an individual such as me and a few other BFOs who are vocal on SoWal than to attack Rosemary, Seaside, Watersound, Watercolor, Alys Beach and other “faceless” developments. But then you know that already. That’s why you do it.

And Reggie is still 100% correct that we’re losing our 30A legacy partly because of all the personal attacks on beach front owners from thinkers like you.

I do appreciate the other kind words however.
You are your words. With enough posts a person's character is revealed. We know who you are. We know the type of person you are. We know what the truth is. Contrary to your words, thankfully not very many want to exclude us from the beach which we grew up on. However the ones who do have money and are using it to destroy our community while blaming it on a minority of visitors who have bad manners. You would like people to believe that you are saving us from the invading hordes of barbarians with coolers. Shame on you and your cohort of owners and packs of lawyers.
 
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