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zip3

Beach Lover
Jul 24, 2010
151
20
I still contend that the moral fabric of our nation is based largely on religious based teachings. I also fail to see how you go about replacing that with some other base and still end up with the moral code we generally uphold in the United States.

I absolutely agree. How do you raise children without moral fabric? Everything that feels good just go with it. You have children with piercings and tattoos and it just feels good so go with it. Parents today just do not care. Children see trash on TV and parents do not care. Children deserve more.
 

scooterbug44

SoWal Expert
May 8, 2007
16,706
3,339
Sowal
I agree with the statement that many of our country's moral ideas and laws were based on religious values/ideas.

However, most of those same values were based on non-religious ancient laws that were later adopted by religions.

Right and wrong are not solely religious (and are certainly not solely Christian) values - though some use religious scriptures to teach them.

Atheists can raise wonderful and moral people, and many churches contain major sinners.

People all over the world and throughout time have shared the same basic values of right and wrong, but did not share religions or even come into contact with those others.
 

30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,845
3,471
58
Right here!
I still contend basic moral goodness is intrinsic to being human.

How so? How is it defined, how does it manifest in a physical human being? Other animals on this planet do not exhibit the same characteristics, they don't have a conscience. What gives us this special sixth sense?

I agree with the statement that many of our country's moral ideas and laws were based on religious values/ideas.

However, most of those same values were based on non-religious ancient laws that were later adopted by religions.

I'd be willing to bet most ancient civilizations adopted some form of religion. Do you know of any that were based on civic vs. religious doctrine? I don't know of any.

Right and wrong are not solely religious (and are certainly not solely Christian) values - though some use religious scriptures to teach them.

If they aren't based on religious teachings, what were they based on? Intuition? This gets us into the realm of Darwin's theory - the survival of the fittest, community as a form of self preservation. This in turn promotes some form of religious belief. It's self perpetuating.

Atheists can raise wonderful and moral people,

In my experience this isn't necessarily the case. I'm not saying kids raised without religion turn out to be axe murderers, but I do think they have a tendency to over look important moral road blocks.
 
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BeachSiO2

Beach Fanatic
Jun 16, 2006
3,294
737
I would just hate to miss out on the presents since Jesus is the reason for the season. I have neighbors who don't recognize Jesus and thus don't celebrate Christmas is that normal for atheists and agnostics? That was a tounge in cheek response but I reaaly don't know what atheists and agnostics do. I have Jewish friends so I need no explanation there.
 

Lake View Too

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2008
6,959
8,462
Eastern Lake
Shopper: Your generalization that religious beliefs are necessary for a truly moral backbone just doesn't hold up to the fact that millions, if not billions of non-religious people go about their lives in very moral lives. And, at the same time, millions, if not billions, of religious people harbor radical beliefs that harbor no compassion nor moral or ethical considerations for other human beings, simply because their religious beliefs differ from theirs. The Muslims and the Jews, for instance. The Shiites and the Sunnis, for instance. Do you call their hatred of each other moral? More hatred and intolerance have been generated by blind religious beliefs than has ever been generated by agnostic compassion for all living things.
 

LuciferSam

Banned
Apr 26, 2008
4,749
1,069
Sowal
I still contend that the moral fabric of our nation is based largely on religious based teachings. I also fail to see how you go about replacing that with some other base and still end up with the moral code we generally uphold in the United States.

You're failure to see another point of view doesn't give yours credibility.
 

30ashopper

SoWal Insider
Apr 30, 2008
6,845
3,471
58
Right here!
Shopper: Your generalization that religious beliefs are necessary for a truly moral backbone just doesn't hold up to the fact that millions, if not billions of non-religious people go about their lives in very moral lives. And, at the same time, millions, if not billions, of religious people harbor radical beliefs that harbor no compassion nor moral or ethical considerations for other human beings, simply because their religious beliefs differ from theirs. The Muslims and the Jews, for instance. The Shiites and the Sunnis, for instance. Do you call their hatred of each other moral? More hatred and intolerance have been generated by blind religious beliefs than has ever been generated by agnostic compassion for all living things.

The use of religion to do harm isn't the issue. That's a case of lost or misguided moral compass. The question I am raising is, can you have a positive moral code in a society without religious belief as the basis. If you remove religion what do you replace it with? Is it ingrained for instance? If so, what are the guiding principles?
 

LuciferSam

Banned
Apr 26, 2008
4,749
1,069
Sowal
In my experience this isn't necessarily the case. I'm not saying kids raised without religion turn out to be axe murderers, but I do think they have a tendancy to over look important moral road blocks.

Moral roadblocks are bad, so overlooking them is good. Please lose the talking points.
 

Bob

SoWal Insider
Nov 16, 2004
10,366
1,391
O'Wal
I was referring to fear of punishment.

We have the ability to feel right from wrong, but the subject matter for our conscience is learned. For most people that learned behavior is based on religion.

I've found people who grow up in a non-religious environment tend to lack good conscience, so I've always wondered what would life would be like in a society that had completely abandoned religion.
I'm sorry, but my experience tells me that's nonsense. you do not need religion to know not to be a sociopathic wall street type.
 
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