Federal Lawsuit Could Bar Public from Beaches and Recreation Areas

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by steel1man, Jun 19, 2018.

  1. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Where do you think all the crushed shells and crud on the bottom of the Gulf in the sand miles offshore goes after it's pumped on shore? Read the engineering reports.

    In Okaloosa County's previous beach project a judge said the off shore sand from a closer sand source was NOT compatible with the existing beach sand in color or debris content. Walton judge also ruled Walton beach fortification sand source was NOT compatible with the native sand.

    I do and will pickup my own trash, but I shouldn't have to with respectful tourist under customary use. Don't need the TDC driving their vehicles over our property several times a day leaving the beautiful tire tracks and ruts. Commissioners and TDC - keep off private property without written owner permission first. Use the public foreshore sand or 30A and Scenic Hwy public access points.
     
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  2. EZ4144

    EZ4144 Beach Lover

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    As big a problem as dredging may be, it's abetter option than 1,000 seawalls, geaotubes, and walkovers in a billion pieces ... and destroyed homes as your seashore after the next big one.
     
  3. Duchess

    Duchess Beach Lover

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    FloridaBeachBum, you don't want tire tracks at all?? No lifeguard ATVs or turtle watch people can cross your property? Have you figured out
    how to keep the turtles from nesting? Come on, dude.
     
  4. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Did you read the post? Did I write anything other than TDC vehicles? Why do you put words in my posts that aren't there? Come on, Dudett.
    So you are OK with tire tracks and ruts on the beach? Wonder why the TDC does not use photos with all the tire ruts on on their web site? Can the TDC drive across your property multiple times a day and leave ruts on your property without your permission? My property have the same rights as yours. What does the law say? Or is that customary use too?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2018
  5. Kurt Lischka

    Kurt Lischka Admin Staff Member

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    New Florida law reignites beach access fight in Panhandle

     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  6. Duchess

    Duchess Beach Lover

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    FloridaBeachBum, I have only ever seen the TDC vehicles being driven slowly and with the utmost care. No, I *don't* mind the tire tracks. I honestly just think we should all be better beach visitors and that you might think hard about things you learned in kindergarten, specifically about sharing. If you want to kick everyone out of your sandbox, knock yourself out. I still fail to see how me sitting in a beach chair with a paperback and a diet Coke is considered trespassing. So there you have it.
     
  7. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Did you read my previous post?
    "I had not asked any respectful uninvited person to leave our private property before commissioner declared customary use - without due process. But I have always had and will have that right to un-invite them if I so wish and the Sheriff would/will have to enforced that right to the deeded MHWL.

    But if Commissioners think they can try to expand a very limited, and previously obscure, doctrine of custom to tell me I have NO right to my private enjoyment of my deeded property that I pay Walton taxes on to the MHWL; dang straight I’m going to fight and assert my rights to the fullest extent of the law. You can thank the Commissioners for that...."

    "I have only ever seen the TDC vehicles being driven slowly and with the utmost care." You obviously do not live on the beach. Regardless I have not given permission for the TDC to drive on my property. The TDC can drive on their property; below the MHWL, or on the roads and use the public access points. That's the law.
    "No, I *don't* mind the tire tracks [on your property]." You wouldn't mind tire tracks on your yard and property? We have the same property rights.
    Did you learn in kindergarten you did not have to follow the rules/laws? Or taking what is not yours without permission is not nice?
    Sharing means it is your right and choice to share. Not to be told you have to share your belongings by the principle (local government) or other children.
     
  8. James Bentwood

    James Bentwood Beach Fanatic

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    How about we enforce a "no loitering" law? Limit beach time in one spot to a few hours. I don't think people would bring elaborate setups or tents.

    I don't like tire tracks either but if people are on the beach there is going to be trash. Make people haul their trash out? Have trash cans only on pavement?
     
  9. Duchess

    Duchess Beach Lover

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    I'm sure you meant principal, but I understand what you meant, FloridaBeachBum.
     
  10. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    If the public can not be respectful enough to private, or public, property and not clean up after themselves they can not have permission to "loiter" on my property. You can not relieve yourself on my property either. Or contribute to the Poor water quality off the beach. One bad apple spoils the bunch.

    If the TDC has trash bags at public property beach or private property, with permission of the property owner, they can drive on public property below the MHWL or on the public road to the public beach access point to get the bags on the beach or get permission of the upland property owner to cross private property to collect the bags. Walton TDC does not have permission to be on my property. That's the law.
     
  11. FloridaBeachBum

    FloridaBeachBum Beach Fanatic

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    Oops. Yep. Thanks. Guess I should have learned that in 5th grade.
     
  12. Dreamer

    Dreamer Beach Lover

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  13. James Bentwood

    James Bentwood Beach Fanatic

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    If we were unable to overcome the bad apple premise we wouldn't have a society. Sounds like you are a bad apple by being totally unyielding. Also I was suggesting no trash cans on the beach, only at parking areas. people would have to pick up trash or face fines. TDC would have to pick up whatever trash might be left.

    Again - it goes back to Walton County being too lax. Start enforcing and people will get the message. It will take a few years but we can improve people's behavior greatly. The bad apples will be seen as bad apples - not part of the spoiled bunch.

    If you don't want people on your property then don't live on the beach. Otherwise you will never be happy. Life's too short to battle nature. Your money can't make the problem go away. You just embarrass yourself and ruin a good day at the beach for the majority of people you share the earth with. They aren't going away. Don't let sea level rise be your karma. Be nice or leave.
     
  14. Duchess

    Duchess Beach Lover

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    I am really just trying to promote the whole "why can't we all just get along" line of thinking. I just got back from a long beach walk and hit the trifecta--saw several sharks and rays but also a turtle (near Huckabee's} and it made my day. I rarely see turtles; it was awesome! Luckily it wasn't after July 1st and I didn't sit down, I guess. If we could all try to share I would be most appreciative. I think some (and just some) beachfront owners are being niggardly and selfish. I assume that those folks are the type who won't let you merge in traffic or spot you a buck at Publix if you're out of change. This is just my supposition, however. Nice day to all, it's absolutely gorgeous out there.
     
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  15. JB

    JB Beach Fanatic

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    I linked this same piece in the other thread just a few minutes ago. Gotta love these quotes at the end. Outsiders? What a pompous ---.

    Standing on the balcony of his $3.6 million home, Hackmeyer pointed at two people with a beach umbrella among homeowners and renters along the 1,000-foot stretch of beach in front of his gated community.
    “Those people are outsiders. I’m pretty sure, but I can’t do anything about it until July the first. They’re trespassing,” Hackmeyer said.

    And the best one:
    “Those people are totally hell-bent on taking private beaches,” he said, sipping coffee from a God Loves Republicans cup. “If you let Walton County confiscate private property, we become like Venezuela and Cuba.”

    I guess my question is, how many others are there like this? I'm hoping there won't be any physical confrontations, but I'd bet a grouper sandwich there will be. I was down a week or so ago and noticed the TDC is covering all fees for folks wanting to use the state park, which seems to be causing an overcrowding problem there. And now it's about to get worse. People like me who have been coming to the area for decades, and have developed certain habits as to where and how we set up....it will be a trip ruined within the first 10 minutes on the beach.

    But the beauty of the water, the pace, and the lack of high-rises will keep me coming back - but never again between Memorial Day and Labor Day, lol.
     
  16. steel1man

    steel1man Beach Fanatic

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    From Southeastern Local newspaper......postings::


    The new law won’t change the current rights people have to the beach — except in Walton County.

    Unlike two Atlantic Coast counties with similar beach-access ordinances, Walton County’s ordinance doesn’t follow the requirements of the new law. The county didn’t seek court approval before implementing its ordinance and it gave blanket access to all beaches instead of identifying specific parcels of private lands. That’ why it will become void.

    Now Walton County is gearing up for more fights.

    “It’s pretty scary,” said Theresa Barrett as she prepared to go to one of the county’s public beaches. She said there will be more conflicts between local residents and tourists will be driven elsewhere.

    “It’s going to affect business, it’s going to affect property values,” said Barrett, who owns a boutique. “They’ll definitely go elsewhere. You’ve got a whole strip of beach in Panama City Beach, you’ve got St. George Island and all that where they can just pick up and go to those places where they can sit on the beach in peace.”

    But Bill Hackmeyer and other property owners also want to enjoy their beach in peace, and they say their property values will be affected if anyone can take advantage of the space many paid millions to have to themselves.

    Standing on the balcony of his $3.6 million home, Hackmeyer pointed at two people with a beach umbrella among homeowners and renters along the 1,000-foot stretch of beach in front of his gated community.

    “Those people are outsiders. I’m pretty sure, but I can’t do anything about it until July the first. They’re trespassing,” Hackmeyer said.

    Hackmeyer has already posted signs on the beach notifying visitors that the Viscaya stretch is private property and violators will be trespassing. Folks can walk along the waterline, or at low tide can stake their claim to sand that was wet a few hours earlier, but Hackmeyer plans to ask people to leave the association’s beach.

    “If we don’t reject them, our beach is not going to be our beach. We’ve paid a lot of money for it, but it’s going to be the public’s,” he said. “Once anybody or everybody comes on the beach, whether you like them or not, it’s not exclusive, and property values are based on exclusivity.”

    Rauschkolb, who has traveled the world to enjoy the ocean, is one of the more vocal Walton County residents fighting for beach access for all.

    He’s proposed ideas to bridge the dispute, including a beach ambassador program that would help educate people about beach rules.

    But the issue isn’t going away soon. Walton County commissioners refused to be interviewed for this article, but did issue a press release saying they’re going to follow the new law in an effort to give beach access to all.

    Hackmeyer is getting ready to fight Walton County again.

    “Those people are totally hell-bent on taking private beaches,” he said, sipping coffee from a God Loves Republicans cup. “If you let Walton County confiscate private property, we become like Venezuela and Cuba.”
     
  17. steel1man

    steel1man Beach Fanatic

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    Sheriff Adkinson answering trespassing on beach after 7/1/18
     

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